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Jason

14. Tiemoue Bakayoko

Started by Jason,

621 posts in this topic

Needs to improve a lot and quickly. Can't have him being a passenger in bigger games, today I felt he was in hiding. We conceded quite a few chances from his mistakes, he wasn't nearly aggressive enough on either end. I don't feel like he's using his physical power to the fullest, kinda backs away too much for my liking and sometimes goes in too soft, misjudges and mistimes quite a lot. Haven't seen any of his striding runs forward either, mostly strolling around in walking pace. Needs to stop thinking about his hair and more about his game.

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He's just really loose and sketchy on the ball. Conte has said it numerous times and I agree - good off the ball, needs to improve dramatically on it. It's when he tries to play a skillful pass whilst being rushed that he struggles. When he keeps it simple and has time he's fine.

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Think he will grow into a more rounded player yet. Some good things, some bad things, seems to intercept ball a lot but seems really ponderous on the ball no idea what to do with it at times but also then you see at times he can play some tricky first passes. He does go missing too which is a major concern considering he’s a more defensive minded player. Somebody mentioned Tolisso above me (on spare phone other ones getting fixed, real pain to try quote) but he has been extremely poor and out of his depth at Bayern, Chelsea isn’t Bayern but Chelsea aren’t Lyon either. Always a risk.

Beigl, Tomo and Stats like this

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So we will probably need to wait season or two before this fella becomes great player (EDIT: If he ever gets there, of course)

It was mentioned hundred times, but here it goes again - same situation would be present if we took time and gave REAL opportunity to some of our youngsters (especially Chalobah, for that place). Only difference would be having 40 millions more in the pocket, and having actually our "product" in the squad (+ one more home-grown player).

I don't see Bakayoko anything above Chalobah level at the moment. And the guy is getting first XI start every game. If Nathaniel had this kind of opportunity, to play every game at top club, his story with us could've been very different.

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40 minutes ago, El P. said:

So we will probably need to wait season or two before this fella becomes great player.

It was mentioned hundred times, but here it goes again - same situation would be present if we took time and gave REAL opportunity to some of our youngsters (especially Chalobah, for that place). Only difference would be having 40 millions more in the pocket, and having actually our "product" in the squad (+ one more home-grown player).

I don't see Bakayoko anything above Chalobah level at the moment. And the guy is getting first XI start every game. If Nathaniel had this kind of opportunity, to play every game at top club, his story with us could've been very different.

LOL. This is pure bullshit, thank you.

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Just because you're new doesn't mean you'll get better. Just because you're 'young' doesn't mean you'll get better. These are weak points when put against the plain facts from having seen him play before his arrival.

It is possible to gain a lot of perspective on a player very quickly. And we do ourselves a disservice if we don't accept how important a person's mentality & intelligence is in relation to their potential as a footballer. That mentality shines through within just a few games, for every player. And we clearly didn't sign the brightest apple in the basket. Those apples never then become shiny on their own. They are what they are, and Bakayoko is what he is. (Rarely, they will turn shiny, if a dedicated carts-man emanates passion for his apples; but an already bruised and not-so-good apple has no chance when the carts-man changes every week.)  

Besides, 23 isn't young. At 23, we could clearly see the quality in Hazard, Neymar, Bale, Kroos, Fabinho, Kovacic, Verratti, Isco, De Bruyne, we could go on and on. These are professional footballers, not amateurs. If you're not good at 23 while surrounded by quality players, you won't be great at 27; other than the very rare occasion like Drogba, who sits alone in that basket. We can't really use him as an example though, because any tall, incredibly strong striker will find a way to score one way or another. So really there's no examples of players at 23, playing how Bakayoko plays now, going on to become comparable to our great players of the past decade.

What you see is what you get. 

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1 minute ago, Leif said:

Just because you're new doesn't mean you'll get better. Just because you're young doesn't mean you'll get better. These are weak points when put against the plain facts from having seen him play before his arrival.

It is possible to gain a lot of perspective on a player very quickly. And we do ourselves a disservice if we don't accept how important a person's mentality & intelligence is in relation to their potential as a footballer. We clearly didn't sign the brightest apple in the basket, and those apples never get shiny. They are what they are, and Bakyoko is what he is. 

Besides, 23 isn't young. At 23, we could clearly see the quality in Hazard, Neymar, Bale, Kroos, Fabinho, Kovacic, Verratti, Isco, we could go on and on. These are professional footballers, not amateurs. If you're not good at 23, you won't be great at 27.

Ever heard of this geezer called Didier Drogba? 

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11 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Ever heard of this geezer called Didier Drogba? 

Exceptions to a rule don't define the rule, don't be so bizarre. 

Funnily I added a piece about him to my post before you replied; just took a while hitting save since more text was being added.

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1 hour ago, Leif said:

Exceptions to a rule don't define the rule, don't be so bizarre. 

Funnily I added a piece about him to my post before you replied; just took a while hitting save since more text was being added.

I get that argument. Your initial post was a lot harsher though. 

The guy has a lot of growing left in him imo. He hasn’t even played a 100 league games in his career (132 in total with CL/Cup games). Plenty of areas for him to improve in i.e. his concentration and decision making but that’ll come with time. 

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To me Drogba had something that opponents needed to worry about immediately.

Bakayoko does not and although it's possible he can improved greatly, it's not likely; his ceiling is probably lower than what we expect for a Chelsea player (IF we're still a club that aspires to be competitive in Europe and win in England).

Another summer has gone by and we have not improved in centre midfield again. N'golo Kante was an improvement over Mikel (who I never liked whatsoever), but aside from that acquisition, Fabregas is out of (legs) gas, we let a superstar leave (de Bruyne), sold Nemanja One-foot, loaned out RLC, sold Chalobah, Frank is gone, etc.

N'golo, Danny, and Tiemoue. Aside from super N'golo (who is likely run-down, like Danny) and some nice passes from Fabregas, our midfield is looking like a marginally upgraded version of a Newcastle United budget experiment. 

Again, I don't see why Eden Hazard stays with Chelsea after this season.

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20 hours ago, Georgy said:

Knew we missed the boat when Tolisso when to Bayern. Couldn't even get Fabinho who is a lot better. 

Just go on Bayernzone and see what the Bayern fans have said about Tolisso so far. Bayern fans have been underwhelmed with him so far. Take into consideration that he is playing for a team where he is expected to have a lot more time on the ball. So you clearly haven't watched Tolisso this season. That is not to say he will not improve but don't write Bakayoko off completely either.

The Skipper, Amblève. and Fernando like this

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7 hours ago, El P. said:

So we will probably need to wait season or two before this fella becomes great player (EDIT: If he ever gets there, of course)

It was mentioned hundred times, but here it goes again - same situation would be present if we took time and gave REAL opportunity to some of our youngsters (especially Chalobah, for that place). Only difference would be having 40 millions more in the pocket, and having actually our "product" in the squad (+ one more home-grown player).

I don't see Bakayoko anything above Chalobah level at the moment. And the guy is getting first XI start every game. If Nathaniel had this kind of opportunity, to play every game at top club, his story with us could've been very different.

Would you be saying the same thing had the situation been the other way round?

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16 minutes ago, Jason said:

Would you be saying the same thing had the situation been the other way round?

You mean - if Bakayoko had been really great from the start?

Look, I'm not mad that we've bought Bakayoko. I just don't see a point in bringing players who are MASSIVELY unproven, very young, etc etc, for large sum of money, if we have opportunity to try with some of our players.

So he had good season with Monaco, they were really good, so what? Wasn't their key player and that was for only one season. This is not me saying - Bakayoko is not good enough. Hell, he could become another Essien some day, and that would be great .This is me saying - we need to scout better and if we are really gonna offload our young fellas for someone else (like we did offload Chalobah and bought Bakayoko), that someone better be good, better be really good. Not like this.

So, my answer is - it's a gamble. With a guy like Bakayoko, it's gamble. So why not gamble with our guys instead? (And I'm not even big fan of Chalobah, and I think Bakayoko is slightly better, just for the record.)

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Just now, El P. said:

You mean - if Bakayoko had been really great from the start?

No. We buy Chalobah for 40m and sell academy player Bakayoko. If Bakayoko had come from our academy, people would be pleading patience because he's still young etc but because he's a purchase, people want instant success.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

No. We buy Chalobah for 40m and sell academy player Bakayoko. If Bakayoko had come from our academy, people would be pleading patience because he's still young etc but because he's a purchase, people want instant success.

Oh, well I would think the same, of course. I don't see that big of a difference between Chalobah and Bakayoko. Both raw, both unproven. In that case I would like to stick with Bakayoko. I think both of them are good potentials. Not great, but good.

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He's young, given time to adapt and partnered next to kante or in a midfield 3, I think we'll see some improved performances from him in the future, especially 2nd half of the season. He looked a beast at Monaco, just needs to get up to speed in the premier league imo

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