Victor Perez- Vitolo

[LAM09 6,535]

2 hours ago, volfan89 said:

Why? We need depth on the wing something awful, not necessarily a WC winger to take over the right. Its not like Hazard and Pedro/Willian are shit and not up to par. We just need someone to A) Fill in for Hazard for the first month, and B ) ride the pine and be useful when someone inevitably gets banged up during our 4 competitions. With us spending 60m on Sandro, 35m on Bak, probs in the ballpark of 70-80m for a striker, and 60m for a center half, where you getting the cash from to buy a WC winger?

Sell Willian as has been rumoured and go for one. £35m & a player for Vitolo is farcical. 

[WNDS 502]

35 minutes ago, Leif said:

Yeah, little output. I watched a team who relied on 1 player for all the goals. Tell me who consistently scored in the league other than Costa. ..

...

..

And that's little output when you consider our forward line costs about 100m, not even half of that fee being that 1 player banging in all the goals. It's called 'in relative terms', what I said.

Which winger would I sign? I'd consider the following, and especially push for the first option, considering he'd be the hardest but most worthy of getting - Muller, I would've gone all out for Bernardo Silva (and it's shocking we didn't), I'd look at the ultra-productive & unsettled Douglas Costa, I'd offer Robben a homecoming, I'd go for Alexis Sanchez, I'd even look at Chamberlain since he's simply in a terrible team, with a bunch of talent in his own boots. Consider too, we've never had more money to spend. I'd even go all out for Bale, wouldn't you? He's another unsettled player, another proven, ultra-effective player.

And that's not counting the absolute hoards of talent in Turkey right now; they're having their boom. Too many 21 year olds there would walk right into any top team currently.

Who would you bring in? You don't think there's any options better than Pedro? 

If you want to win big, you buy big. You don't stick with Pedro who isn't getting any better and buy Vitolo. 2 players who'll have 0 value in 3 years. Then who'll you buy?

 

2 hours ago, Leif said:

Pedro & Willian will never have an above average performance for us vs. the likes of Bayern, Barcelona, either Madrid team, Juventus. The proof's in the pudding who reliant we've been on Costa; no team with as many attack-orientated as we do has such little output. It isn't the tactics, it's the players. Willian will never be a starter for us again, and he will never give confidence if selected in the XI against any team who isn't in the bottom half of the table. 

Pedro's hot and cold.

Good enough? I don't think so. Adding Vitolo to that is fucking hilarious. He's good, but not very good. Roma-tier player. Not good enough to improve anyone in the top 6 of our league; and we shouldn't be thinking about 'depth' until the XI is stronger. If we had a world class right winger, then, this would be sensible.

 

You're ignoring the numbers that were posted above: Pedro and Willian combined provided us with 17 goals and 11 'pure' assists in the league, going up to 25 goals and 15/16 assists in all competitions. They also scored and/or assisted important goals against Man City, Tottenham, Man United, and Arsenal.

Pedro has a history of performing well in the latter stages of the CL, SCORING IN ONE FINAL and providing an assist in another. Willian performed very well for us in the single deep CL run that we have made since he arrived here; he was excellent against PSG (and again last season), and was one of the only players to play reasonably well over both legs against Atletico (making our only goal against them out of nothing in the process).

And you then go on to suggest aged and enormously injury-prone (but admittedly world-class) Robben, inconsistent and injury-prone Douglas Costa (who IS a quality player IMO, but is also currently failing to get ahead of Firmino/Willian/Coutinho in the Brazilian squad, failed to get ahead of Willian at Shakhtar, and isn't all that highly rated by Bayern fans), and ALEX OXLADE-CHAMBERLAIN could give us the edge that we supposedly lack at RW. Robben probably could, in fairness, but he'd be a huge risk nonetheless. Sanchez is a non-starter, unfortunately. HE would be ideal, but there's no chance he'll come here from Arsenal. None.

[Leif 6,006]

16 minutes ago, WNDS said:

 

 

You're ignoring the numbers that were posted above: Pedro and Willian combined provided us with 17 goals and 11 'pure' assists in the league, going up to 25 goals and 15/16 assists in all competitions. They also scored and/or assisted important goals against Man City, Tottenham, Man United, and Arsenal.

Pedro has a history of performing well in the latter stages of the CL, SCORING IN ONE FINAL and providing an assist in another. Willian performed very well for us in the single deep CL run that we have made since he arrived here; he was excellent against PSG (and again last season), and was one of the only players to play reasonably well over both legs against Atletico (making our only goal against them out of nothing in the process).

And you then go on to suggest aged and enormously injury-prone (but admittedly world-class) Robben, inconsistent and injury-prone Douglas Costa (who IS a quality player IMO, but is also currently failing to get ahead of Firmino/Willian/Coutinho in the Brazilian squad, failed to get ahead of Willian at Shakhtar, and isn't all that highly rated by Bayern fans), and ALEX OXLADE-CHAMBERLAIN could give us the edge that we supposedly lack at RW. Robben probably could, in fairness, but he'd be a huge risk nonetheless. Sanchez is a non-starter, unfortunately. HE would be ideal, but there's no chance he'll come here from Arsenal. None.

Pedro's good in the latter stages of the CL you say. I say, the players Chelsea are supposed to have shine every single game, not once or twice in a 10+ game competition, only putting in 'good' performances for those other games. I also say, whoever we replace Pedro & Willian with, would score against the top teams regularly, not once or twice in their Chelsea careers.

Stats are not an indicator of quality. If they were, Lukaku would be better than Messi currently. We need quality, not players who bloat their stats.
And, the 'output' of 17 goals...between 2 players...is not impressive, at all. Maybe if they were central midfielders that'd be impressive.
We've lived through times where Chelsea had 4-5 players a season all getting 14+ goals. Now we barely have 1. Output is lacking. Pedro looks the most likely to score when Costa isn't playing, but he scores a handful of times per season, not consistently. We need consistent output.

The likes of Vitolo/Pedro/Willian/Lukaku are great if we want to keep competing with Tottenham. Not so great if you actually enjoy beating the likes of Barcelona & Bayern. 

Douglas Costa didn't fail to get ahead of Willian, they played together almost every game, with Costa making more appearances in less amount of time, and scoring more goals.
You go on to admit Robben probably could give us our edge, so we don't need to debate the 'what if's' - we all know he's injury prone - does that make Bayern consider him not good enough? Are players that boss it week in week out at Bayern somehow not good enough for Chelsea? And Costa has been mismanaged at Bayern. It's not a case of 'Robben's better, so Costa doesn't play.' It's a case of, Bayern, like Madrid, have their undroppables, and Costa as well as Bayern fans have been very vocal about this fact. Bayern can afford keeping world-beaters on the bench, just like Madrid do. We have Willian on the bench. We're supposed to be their equals, not a level below.

Sanchez is a non-starter only for teams who don't have a war chest of 100m+. Arsenal would sell for 40m-60m, Sanchez would take double his pay. With the players Arsenal are targeting, they simply must be considering a high profile sale. 

[WNDS 502]

53 minutes ago, Leif said:

Pedro's good in the latter stages of the CL you say. I say, the players Chelsea are supposed to have shine every single game, not once or twice in a 10+ game competition, only putting in 'good' performances for those other games. I also say, whoever we replace Pedro & Willian with, would score against the top teams regularly, not once or twice in their Chelsea careers.

Stats are not an indicator of quality. If they were, Lukaku would be better than Messi currently. We need quality, not players who bloat their stats.
And, the 'output' of 17 goals...between 2 players...is not impressive, at all. Maybe if they were central midfielders that'd be impressive.
We've lived through times where Chelsea had 4-5 players a season all getting 14+ goals. Now we barely have 1. Output is lacking. Pedro looks the most likely to score when Costa isn't playing, but he scores a handful of times per season, not consistently. We need consistent output.

The likes of Vitolo/Pedro/Willian/Lukaku are great if we want to keep competing with Tottenham. Not so great if you actually enjoy beating the likes of Barcelona & Bayern. 

Douglas Costa didn't fail to get ahead of Willian, they played together almost every game, with Costa making more appearances in less amount of time, and scoring more goals.
You go on to admit Robben probably could give us our edge, so we don't need to debate the 'what if's' - we all know he's injury prone - does that make Bayern consider him not good enough? Are players that boss it week in week out at Bayern somehow not good enough for Chelsea? And Costa has been mismanaged at Bayern. It's not a case of 'Robben's better, so Costa doesn't play.' It's a case of, Bayern, like Madrid, have their undroppables, and Costa as well as Bayern fans have been very vocal about this fact. Bayern can afford keeping world-beaters on the bench, just like Madrid do. We have Willian on the bench. We're supposed to be their equals, not a level below.

Sanchez is a non-starter only for teams who don't have a war chest of 100m+. Arsenal would sell for 40m-60m, Sanchez would take double his pay. With the players Arsenal are targeting, they simply must be considering a high profile sale. 

 

Bayern won't sell Robben anyway. They're trying to sell Douglas Costa because they still rate both Robben AND Ribery more highly than him, whilst also viewing Coman as a more promising eventual replacement for either one. Bayern are a team that ONLY sell on their own terms, even if a player pushes for a move (e.g Ribery trying to leave for Madrid). I don't even see Robben attempting to do something similar to join us. Why would he? He's an Ancelotti favourite and is settled in Munich.

And Douglas Costa IS NOT rated by the majority of Bayern fans that I know: they say that he was truly excellent for his first half-season there, but that his performances fell-away quite considerably in the second-half of that same season, and that he was mostly very poor (mis-management or otherwise) for almost all of the season just gone. They feel that they're getting a very good deal if he moves to Juve for 40M Euros, and that's with them taking into account the massive upturn in prices that has occurred over the last few seasons.

In addition, he HAS also lost his place in the Brazil NT under Tite. Brazil currently play Casemiro, Paulinho/Fernandinho, and Renato Augusto as their  first-choice 3-man midfield, with Neymar, Coutinho, and Gabriel Jesus forming the attack; the three first-choice replacements/subs are currently Willian (for Coutinho), Firmino (for Gabriel Jesus), and whichever one hasn't started out of the aforementioned Paulinho/Fernandinho. There are rumours that Tite might eventually ditch Renato Augusto in favour of moving Coutinho back into the midfield three, but it's one of Willian or Firmino who are currently set to benefit, NOT Douglas Costa. Douglas Costa has missed a few of Brazil's recent call-ups due to injuries, and whilst he DID make the most recent squad, he was played as part of the C-team against Australia, was rubbish, and was subbed-out for Willian (who had started and played very well a few days earlier as part of a mixed A- and B-team against Argentina, and played very well again against Australia). Consistency has always been a problem for Douglas Costa, very good player though he can be, and so I find it ironic that you'd be favour of bringing him in given your criticism of Pedro's perceived failings in this area.

As for Pedro, he didn't only perform occasionally in the latter stages of the CL: he was a very consistent (and consistently dangerous) part of Guardiola's great Barcelona team. Is he (or was he) as good as Neymar (his eventual replacement after Guardiola left)? No, but Neymar is one of the top 5 players in the world at the moment; almost nobody (not ever our own Eden Hazard) is currently as good as him. Pedro DID go toe-to-toe with a certain Alexis Sanchez at the time, though. Remember that?

And speaking of which: the Alexis Sanchez situation. Trying to get him off Arsenal will be like trying to get Modric off Tottenham: I honestly think that Wenger and Arsenal would much rather take the potential financial hit than allow him to join us under any circumstances. Simple as that. I'd love him here, though, of course.

[volfan89 97]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

Yeah, little output. I watched a team who relied on 1 player for all the goals. Tell me who consistently scored in the league other than Costa. ..

...

..

And that's little output when you consider our forward line costs about 100m, not even half of that fee being that 1 player banging in all the goals. It's called 'in relative terms', what I said.

Which winger would I sign? I'd consider the following, and especially push for the first option, considering he'd be the hardest but most worthy of getting - Muller, I would've gone all out for Bernardo Silva (and it's shocking we didn't), I'd look at the ultra-productive & unsettled Douglas Costa, I'd offer Robben a homecoming, I'd go for Alexis Sanchez, I'd even look at Chamberlain since he's simply in a terrible team, with a bunch of talent in his own boots. Consider too, we've never had more money to spend. I'd even go all out for Bale, wouldn't you? He's another unsettled player, another proven, ultra-effective player.

And that's not counting the absolute hoards of talent in Turkey right now; they're having their boom. Too many 21 year olds there would walk right into any top team currently.

Who would you bring in? You don't think there's any options better than Pedro? 

If you want to win big, you buy big. You don't stick with Pedro who isn't getting any better and buy Vitolo. 2 players who'll have 0 value in 3 years. Then who'll you buy?

 

Ahh I see the disconnect now. One of us is living in reality while the other is off in lala land. When did Diego score goals the entire second half of the season?! Just because he banged in a ton of goals early doesn't mean we relied only on him. Pedro and Willian were two of the highest scoring wingers in the league other than Alexis, Hazard, Mane, and Son Heung-Min. 17 goals between the two of them for one position is just fine. Hazard scored 16, does that mean he's not quality enough? As for the players you mentioned... lol
Alexis: Just not gonna happen. I'd be the first to tell you he'd revolutionize our team but the dude wants to make more money than Hazard, like 350k/week, Which would never happen.
Muller: Why in gods name would Bayern sell Muller? I could throw out Messi or Neymar too, who would be just about as likely to leave.
Silva: I'll give you that one, But who's to say we didn't try and he just preferred city? They seemed hell bent on signing him early.
Costa: He's just about as hit or miss as you claim Pedro to be and he'd cost an outlandish amount. 
Robben: can't stay healthy and doesn't have much in the tank. 
Ox: Lmao at the thought that ox is better than either Pedro or Willian. He has pace and... well, that's about all.

Bale: Again, we'd spend our entire budget on one player when we have other spots to fill. Which brings me back to my original point:
 

This is not the summer to spend big at winger with so many other options. We need depth. Do I think Vitolo is better than either Pedro or Willian? No. But He'd be a solid option to have on the bench. Would he even be my first choice to be that depth? Probably not, but my point is for 35m in this market with hundreds of millions of dollars needed elsewhere, he's a fine option for depth. 

[Chelsea4 1,521]

According to Onda Cera Vitolo is on his way to sign for Chelsea.

Sent from my SM-N9200 using Tapatalk

[Marvin123 483]

According to Onda Cera Vitolo is on his way to sign for Chelsea.

Sent from my SM-N9200 using Tapatalk

Are they reliable?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Marvin123 483]

According to Onda Cera Vitolo is on his way to sign for Chelsea.

Sent from my SM-N9200 using Tapatalk

Are they reliable?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Marvin123 483]

According to Onda Cera Vitolo is on his way to sign for Chelsea.

Sent from my SM-N9200 using Tapatalk

Are they reliable?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Chelsea4 1,521]

Are they reliable?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Don't know there is interest in him i'm sure about that but i doubt we are this close to signing him,i guess we have to wait and see.

Sent from my SM-N9200 using Tapatalk

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Atletico Madrid announced the signing of Sevilla forward Vitolo after the Spanish international paid his own £33million release fee at La Liga offices on Wednesday.

Vitolo will play at Las Palmas until January because of Atletico's ban on registering players, resolving a complex transfer saga.