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the wes

Tiemoué Bakayoko

Started by the wes,

651 posts in this topic

I won't mind someone like Mahmoud Dahoud at Borussia by the way. I'm not sure if he's ready to make the next big step but he's the mold of midfielder we need next to Kante.

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1 minute ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Oh believe me, I definitely understand the type of football Conte wants. I've done a lot of reading about his system and watched a lot of his Juventus team and us obviously. That's not the point. Conte also wants to pass out from the back. In Juventus, he had a deep lying playmaker in Pirlo that was crucial in this aspect. In Chelsea, Fabregas can help us to a certain extent, but we need a central midfielder that can combine both technical and physical aspects. I'm not convinced Bakayoko can do that. Or Nianggolan for that matter. I'll love Vidal, but he's older now and I'm not sure he wants to leave his comfort zone in Bavaria. 

Conte's philosophy on buildup process is plain simple. Pass the ball to side flanks. Wingers will bring it to attacking third. There then WBs will overlap, make it 5 players surrounding penalty boxes, to interact and make chances. Who is there to depend? 2 midfielders. Pirlo is once in a decade type of player and Conte used him perfectly but we don't have Pirlo and Cesc usually fades away in physical, intense game like this. Pirlo is a great #6 who knows how to do pocket play to protect the defense but Cesc was always CAM and he does not have tactical awareness to play as #6 like Pirlo does. One reason why I believe he will get sold once we get more midfield bodies.  Conte left Juventus because he wanted world class wingers and Juve didn't have financial muscles to meet his demands. He earned his coaching license with 4-2-4 and his philosophy has been always the same. Conte himself was powerful energizer type midfielder and it is the reason why he cares less about midfielder being technical and doing most of buildup play. Bakayoko? He is very very strong player who can cope with strong press and can get out of it at ease. He can bomb forward with his dribbles. He is defensively very strong. There are not many players who can do that. (especially who can handle high press and bring the ball to attacking third via middle. Yaya in his prime comes to mind) His passing is not that great but Conte cares less about pass from his midfield that's why he always targets players with not-so-great passing skills but is a steel from midfield. 

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32 minutes ago, dkim2 said:

Conte's philosophy on buildup process is plain simple. Pass the ball to side flanks. Wingers will bring it to attacking third. There then WBs will overlap, make it 5 players surrounding penalty boxes, to interact and make chances. Who is there to depend? 2 midfielders. Pirlo is once in a decade type of player and Conte used him perfectly but we don't have Pirlo and Cesc usually fades away in physical, intense game like this. Pirlo is a great #6 who knows how to do pocket play to protect the defense but Cesc was always CAM and he does not have tactical awareness to play as #6 like Pirlo does. One reason why I believe he will get sold once we get more midfield bodies.  Conte left Juventus because he wanted world class wingers and Juve didn't have financial muscles to meet his demands. He earned his coaching license with 4-2-4 and his philosophy has been always the same. Conte himself was powerful energizer type midfielder and it is the reason why he cares less about midfielder being technical and doing most of buildup play. Bakayoko? He is very very strong player who can cope with strong press and can get out of it at ease. He can bomb forward with his dribbles. He is defensively very strong. There are not many players who can do that. (especially who can handle high press and bring the ball to attacking third via middle. Yaya in his prime comes to mind) His passing is not that great but Conte cares less about pass from his midfield that's why he always targets players with not-so-great passing skills but is a steel from midfield. 

I disagree with your views on Conte's philosophy in the build up. It's not passing the ball to the flanks. There are many detailed analyses on his approach to the build up phase.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/07/22/antonio-conte-exploring-italys-tactics-at-euro-2016/

As for Bakayoko. You said it yourself, his passing is not that great. For me this is a big problem if he's going to be played next to Kante in a midfield two. One solution might be to play him with Fabregas and Kante in a 3-5-2, but this takes away from the overload advantage we've had in th half-space with Pedro and Hazard. It also puts too much pressure on our wing-backs to generate attacks. For me, Bakayoko is not the answer to our central midfield problem. I'll rather sign Dahoud.

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1 hour ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

When you watch a game like today, you have to wonder if Bakayoko and Kessie is what we really want next to Kante. 

Exact same thoughts. 

We need a CM who we can confidently say is as press-resistant as Moussa Dembele/Paul Pogba. Idk if Bakayoko fills that bill, will need to d/l some matches/watch AS Monaco more often to get a gauge of how press-resistant he is. 

Chelsea are immune to landing such players.

Nothing new mind you...

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26 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

I disagree with your views on Conte's philosophy in the build up. It's not passing the ball to the flanks. There are many detailed analyses on his approach to the build up phase.

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2016/07/22/antonio-conte-exploring-italys-tactics-at-euro-2016/

As for Bakayoko. You said it yourself, his passing is not that great. For me this is a big problem if he's going to be played next to Kante in a midfield two. One solution might be to play him with Fabregas and Kante in a 3-5-2, but this takes away from the overload advantage we've had in th half-space with Pedro and Hazard. It also puts too much pressure on our wing-backs to generate attacks. For me, Bakayoko is not the answer to our central midfield problem. I'll rather sign Dahoud.

I disagree with your view as it is obvious Conte's transfer target lists are steel b2b player who can do the job for both #6 and #8 rather than playmaker type. 

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15 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

I won't mind someone like Mahmoud Dahoud at Borussia by the way. I'm not sure if he's ready to make the next big step but he's the mold of midfielder we need next to Kante.

What about Corentin Tolisso?

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1 hour ago, Fernando said:

Pogba and Bakayoko would make for a serious midfield. Lets hope its lazy journalism connecting them rather than fact

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worrying development if Bakayoko is a PL top quality player in the making. ManUtd setting up to actually become title challengers with some fullback buys. At the moment it's Carrick and Herrera making them tick... Carrick well-aged.

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  I've been watching Monaco a lot recently just to see Bakayoko more against Ligue 1 opposition. The games weren't really competitive so he wasn't pressed or tested defensively, but with the ball he's fantastic. A powerhouse, skillful, holds on to the ball and makes good forward thinking passes. Another thing is he's always ready to make positive runs with the ball at his feet and it's very difficult to stop him. Against Nice and Montpellier especially, he was really good but against PSG, he looked laboured. Let's see how he fares against a top class midfield and intense game-planning in the form of Manchester City and Guardiola. 

On 05/01/2017 at 3:54 PM, Mufassir08 said:

What about Corentin Tolisso?

I like him a lot. He has a greater engine on him than Bakayoko and is a solid passer though he's not the physical specimen Bakayoko is, obviously. 

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6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

  I've been watching Monaco a lot recently...

Me too, since half their squad began to be linked with us.

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

 ...with the ball [Bakayoko is] fantastic. A powerhouse, skillful, holds on to the ball and makes good forward thinking passes. Another thing is he's always ready to make positive runs with the ball at his feet and it's very difficult to stop him...

There is more than one way to play the 'six' position but to be a genuinely good team you need a player capable of playing it as you describe here. It simultaneously makes your side more threatening going forward and more solid defensively. Before the start of next season we need to acquire a player who can do this. Bakayoko is such a player.

 

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

 ...Against Nice and Montpellier especially, he was really good but against PSG, he looked laboured...

It's worth mentioning that he put in a number of really good tackles in those games too.

90% of the time a non-defender touches the ball, the next thing he needs to do with it is make a simple pass. Opportunities to do more impressive things don't happen all the time but the key is having the quality to exploit them when they do. Even players of the highest calibre experience games like Bakayoko endured vs PSG. Games where chances to do special things don't present themselves, or where the player is just not on it. The secret during times like those is to do the simple stuff, avoid hurting your team, and live to fight another day.

My feeling is Bakayoko fits the template. Is he the final answer? I don't know, but he would certainly be a major upgrade over what we have now.

6 hours ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

 ...Let's see how he fares against a top class midfield and intense game-planning in the form of Manchester City and Guardiola...

I've been looking forward to this game for weeks. Can't wait.

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On 05/01/2017 at 0:20 AM, MrExcalibur100 said:

I won't mind someone like Mahmoud Dahoud at Borussia by the way. I'm not sure if he's ready to make the next big step but he's the mold of midfielder we need next to Kante.

I like the look of Julian Weigl he's very similar to Xabi Alonso style I feel we need a midfielder  alongside Kante who can feed Costa hazard and co with perfect long distance passes 

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I just want to say Ta to those of you that watch the European games and gives peeps like me good feedback on these lads. When I see us being linked with someone I dont know all I have to go by are the Youtubes and shit I find with Mr Google. So your views no matter how they differ are appreciated guys.

I think whoever we get needs to be a stronger, faster, more efensive capable version of Cescy. We are severely lacking creativity in CM which is one reason we have been relying on getting it to the WBs. I noticed against the north Londoners that it seemed we was staying back trying to bring out their defenders in some false confidence and it started to work. Then Moses was got higher into their half and we was getting it to him with Pedro going on the outside of the LCB leaving just 2 defewnders and this worked really well.

We do have 2 good DCMs that dont always work well together and we dont know yet just how Chalobah works with anyone as hes not been given time to see. But I would like to see how he worked with N'Golo.

I dont know who out of all the CMs we have been linked with we will get but I hope we opt to go for the best possible one available if we want to take on the CL again.

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10 hours ago, Blue Colored Sky said:

How would you compare him to Wanyama?  

I rate Wanyama highly but Bakayoko is better. They're a similar kind of player but Bakayoko has this ability to make driving runs forward with the ball and it opens up play and creates a lot of space. His dribbling is exceptional and I'd imagine he would be very resistant to pressing because he has fantastic ball control and he brushes players off with ease. He reminds me of a prime Yaya Toure (although not as good going forward) and he definitely has a higher ceiling than Wanyama due to the fact he's only 22.

 

According to whoscored...

 

Bakayoko:

League rating: 7.46 (CL rating: 7.58)

 

Wanyama:

League rating: 6.91 (CL rating: 7.19)

 

Kante:

League rating: 7.27

 

Matic:

League rating: 7.11

 

Kroos:

League rating: 7.79 (CL rating: 6.96)

 

Nainggolan:

League rating: 7.27

 

Vidal:

League: 7.18 (CL rating: 7.44)

 

Verratti:

League: 7.49 (CL rating: 7.13)

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