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Spike

3. Marcos Alonso

Started by Spike,

993 posts in this topic
1 hour ago, ja1 said:

Cancelo hurts as well because we were linked with him the summer we got Zappacosta. For a similar price (that he ended up moving to Inter for). Any amateur fan could’ve told you he’d be a better investment than Zappacosta. Alas, Juve now have two of the  best full backs in the world that we couldn’t got for combined, fee of 80-90m.

I’m a strong believer that in current football, the best teams have the best full backs, there’s a strong correlation. The Madrid’s, the City’s, Juve, Barcelona, Liverpool, they all have quality and athletic footballers at full back, the last 2-3 seasons (well City and Liverpool have only just got full backs on that level since summer 17). 

Bayern as well, and arguably the best overall fullback in LB Alaba, and also the best RB in Kimmich (although Sergi Roberto might be his equal, but I would go with Kimmich). 

Bayern has a lot of other issues though, as they are rapidly ageing up front, their CB's (other than Süle) are crashing out, they have MF injuries, and Neuer is a shadow of his pre injury self.

Kovac is on the hot seat for sure.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

Bayern as well, and arguably the best overall fullback in LB Alaba, and also the best RB in Kimmich (although Sergi Roberto might be his equal, but I would go with Kimmich). 

Bayern has a lot of other issues though, as they are rapidly ageing up front, their CB's (other than Süle) are crashing out, they have MF injuries, and Neuer is a shadow of his pre injury self.

Kovac is on the hot seat for sure.

Yes, Bayern another good example. It particularly shows in CL games over the last few seasons. The likes of Kimmich, Marcelo, dani Alves, Robertson and many more have been instrumental in teams getting to semi final/final in recent seasons.

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1 hour ago, ja1 said:

Yes, Bayern another good example. It particularly shows in CL games over the last few seasons. The likes of Kimmich, Marcelo, dani Alves, Robertson and many more have been instrumental in teams getting to semi final/final in recent seasons.

Give me these 4 fullbacks over our current 4. (provided we get decent prices for our 4, I will say £135-150m for the lot. We have to sell to fund buys, its the way football works (even PSG and Shitty sell players)

We could get these 4 for £20-40m or so less than selling off the 4 we have now, they are far young but still experienced, superb athletes, all are 2-way creative fullbacks with speed to burn.

Or keep Azpi and Alonso and sell Emerson and Zappacosta, who have basically done fuckall since we bought both, (sorry Emerson fanboys), and just buy Firpo and Lazaro. Firpo would bench Alonso within a few games to half a season, and Lazaro would eventually replace Azpi within 2 to 3 year max (Azpi is 30 next season), maybe sooner. We could always move Azpi back to CB on double RB/CB rotation as well and avoid having to buy 2 CB's.(which we most definitely will have to do if deadwood Cahill is finally sold and then AC leaves)

Not joking.

If we want Alaba, Alex Sandro, Benjamin Mendy, Sergi Roberto type fullbacks but are not willing to dump £150m for just 2, then we have to buy extraordinarily talented young young (NOT teens per se) whilst there are still at the smaller clubs where they blew up at.

 

LB Junior Firpo of Real Betis  22yo <<<<<<< prime starter eventually

LB Ferland Mendy  of Lyon  23yo

 

RB Valentino Lazaro of Hertha  22yo     <<<<<<<prime starter eventually, I am going to do a write-up OP on him, best young Austrian player since Alaba and Marcel Sabitzer (I think he is better than Sabitzer, or soon will be) He was an AMF/RW, but now they switched him to RB, where he has been a revelation

RB Nordi Mukiele of RB Leipzig 21yo   .. OR...RB Aaron Wan-Bissaka of Crystal Palace  20yo (English too, and already one of fastest fullbacks on the planet)   

 

other good young fullbacks who would be really affordable (RB is stronger than LB's here)

LB Borna Sosa of Stuttgart    20yo

LB Marcelo Saracchi of Leipzig   20 yo

LB Aarón Martín of Mainz   21yo

 

RB Achraf Hakimi of Borussia Dortmund   19yo

RB Benjamin Henrichs now of Monaco (was on my favourite talent feeder team of the last 2 years, Bayer Leverkusen) 21yo

RB Denzel Dumfries of PSV Eindhoven  22yo

 

 

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On 25/10/2018 at 1:27 AM, Vesper said:

Give me these 4 fullbacks over our current 4. (provided we get decent prices for our 4...

 

 

You not a fan of Tierney? I guess he’d cost a level above the types of targets you described. But if, failing to get a LB to start above Alonso (a Telles or Sandro level peak full back) a young full back trusted to challenge him (unlike Emerson though I’d love to see him get a run of games to see if he could get to Serie A form) like Tierney could be a decent compromise. 

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You not a fan of Tierney? I guess he’d cost a level above the types of targets you described. But if, failing to get a LB to start above Alonso (a Telles or Sandro level peak full back) a young full back trusted to challenge him (unlike Emerson though I’d love to see him get a run of games to see if he could get to Serie A form) like Tierney could be a decent compromise. 
Helps with our HG quota as well

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4 hours ago, ja1 said:

You not a fan of Tierney? I guess he’d cost a level above the types of targets you described. But if, failing to get a LB to start above Alonso (a Telles or Sandro level peak full back) a young full back trusted to challenge him (unlike Emerson though I’d love to see him get a run of games to see if he could get to Serie A form) like Tierney could be a decent compromise. 

I rate all Firpo miles more than Tierney. Mendy too. That whole post was to point out young fullbacks who won't cost 70m plus quid.

Scottish league footie is a joke, so hard to splash the cash Celtic would demand. We could try a loan with option to buy (not obligation), and pay 50% above fair market 1 year loan price (so probably a couple million quid extra) as a sign of good faith.

Doubt Celtic would go for that though.

Firpo was imperious versus Milan last night. I think he would be aces here.

We are stuck with the turtle Alonso for years I fear, so all this is apparently meaningless.

Azpi also needs to step it up, he has been the biggest drop off from last year so far. You can't count Willian and Morata as they were already shit. Azpi was a top 5 RB. The best defensive RB on planet. This year, nowhere near that. His offensive input is underwhelming at best, and has strangely been off the mark on defence as well.

If you want to see a RB playing great football in high intensity pressing system, look at 19yo Achraf Hakimi of Dortmund. Unfortunately Real Madrid owns him, he is only on loan. They will never sell him unless we waived insane money at them.

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5 hours ago, Vesper said:

I rate all Firpo miles more than Tierney. Mendy too. That whole post was to point out young fullbacks who won't cost 70m plus quid.

Scottish league footie is a joke, so hard to splash the cash Celtic would demand. We could try a loan with option to buy (not obligation), and pay 50% above fair market 1 year loan price (so probably a couple million quid extra) as a sign of good faith.

Doubt Celtic would go for that though.

Firpo was imperious versus Milan last night. I think he would be aces here.

We are stuck with the turtle Alonso for years I fear, so all this is apparently meaningless.

Azpi also needs to step it up, he has been the biggest drop off from last year so far. You can't count Willian and Morata as they were already shit. Azpi was a top 5 RB. The best defensive RB on planet. This year, nowhere near that. His offensive input is underwhelming at best, and has strangely been off the mark on defence as well.

If you want to see a RB playing great football in high intensity pressing system, look at 19yo Achraf Hakimi of Dortmund. Unfortunately Real Madrid owns him, he is only on loan. They will never sell him unless we waived insane money at them.

Tierney will eventually outgrow and be fwr too good for Celtic and in terms of British players at his age, he is one of the best out there and also very experienced considering he's played over 150 games for Celtic and Scotland combined, winning trophies left right and centre as well as being an influential figure in the dressing room (already captained Celtic multiple times and also Scotland at a young age). Only because he's Scottish and playing for Celtic is he seriously overlooked. If he was playing PL club's he'd have as much hype as Luke Shaw had at Southampton who was considered one of the best u23 LBs in europe if not the best at that time. Easily. Celtic if they ever sell Tierney will get 30m or 35m minimum I reckon bevause he's the real deal. The whole the Scottish Prem is a joke thing is a bit of a arrogant statement, particularly for somebody who I assume doesnt watch it or makes quick based assumptions, the standards maybe not as competitive but its at least at about championship level and even then with the money difference the gaps not as massive as people think, I watch both leagues quite often and wouldn't say playing championship is that much better. SPL clubs play young guys, sure the academies aren't as good as PL or other European leagues but there's always young players breaking through, club's like Huddersfield dont even have an academy and won't be the first or last PL team to do this in the future because they can throw money at young players. I think playing at a Celtic or Rangers every week infront of 50,000+ fans in a competitive environment is perfect for developing youngsters, managers like Rodgers, McInnes, Lennon and Gerrard having huge influences on young players. Just look at guys such as Fraser Forster, Virgil van Dijk, Victor Wanyama and Moussa Dembele have all moved from the Celtic in the last 10 years to club's and have very good careers (could argue if they were playing in Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal they'd cost double as much at least of what they did from Celtic). Its not all due to the SPL but Id argue Van Dijk and Wanyama could have played for a top 6 team before they all moved from Southampton to Spurs/Pool no problem at all. Moussa Dembele will be a regular French NT player soon and move on from Lyon eventually although he'd easily be able to play for a slightly smaller PL club then get a big move not long after. Also for instance, Charly Musonda failed in Scotland because he wasn't good enough when he did play in this so called "joke league" 6 months after people thought he should be playing in our first team under Conte. Even in the academies big teams are signing lots of hugely talented Scottish players with out fail every season, many who go on to never play and waste their careers. So the Scottish standard can't be that bad. The money is the only thing that holds it back, if the SPL was getting how ever many millions the PL get it would be the same lots of smaller club's spending big money. It's always the same though, European players are considered more appealing options to club's because they can buy ready made players instead of using youth. For me, the Bundesliga is the best league in the world in that regard because its the only one where every team has an incentive to grow their own players and also be competitive hence why Germany were so successful. British football has had the arse torn out of it with money. Million pound academies and nobody in the top 4 is bringing young players through regularly. 

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2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Tierney will eventually outgrow and be fwr too good for Celtic and in terms of British players at his age, he is one of the best out there and also very experienced considering he's played over 150 games for Celtic and Scotland combined, winning trophies left right and centre as well as being an influential figure in the dressing room (already captained Celtic multiple times and also Scotland at a young age). Only because he's Scottish and playing for Celtic is he seriously overlooked. If he was playing PL club's he'd have as much hype as Luke Shaw had at Southampton who was considered one of the best u23 LBs in europe if not the best at that time. Easily. Celtic if they ever sell Tierney will get 30m or 35m minimum I reckon bevause he's the real deal. The whole the Scottish Prem is a joke thing is a bit of a arrogant statement, particularly for somebody who I assume doesnt watch it or makes quick based assumptions, the standards maybe not as competitive but its at least at about championship level and even then with the money difference the gaps not as massive as people think, I watch both leagues quite often and wouldn't say playing championship is that much better. SPL clubs play young guys, sure the academies aren't as good as PL or other European leagues but there's always young players breaking through, club's like Huddersfield dont even have an academy and won't be the first or last PL team to do this in the future because they can throw money at young players. I think playing at a Celtic or Rangers every week infront of 50,000+ fans in a competitive environment is perfect for developing youngsters, managers like Rodgers, McInnes, Lennon and Gerrard having huge influences on young players. Just look at guys such as Fraser Forster, Virgil van Dijk, Victor Wanyama and Moussa Dembele have all moved from the Celtic in the last 10 years to club's and have very good careers (could argue if they were playing in Spain, Italy, Germany, Portugal they'd cost double as much at least of what they did from Celtic). Its not all due to the SPL but Id argue Van Dijk and Wanyama could have played for a top 6 team before they all moved from Southampton to Spurs/Pool no problem at all. Moussa Dembele will be a regular French NT player soon and move on from Lyon eventually although he'd easily be able to play for a slightly smaller PL club then get a big move not long after. Also for instance, Charly Musonda failed in Scotland because he wasn't good enough when he did play in this so called "joke league" 6 months after people thought he should be playing in our first team under Conte. Even in the academies big teams are signing lots of hugely talented Scottish players with out fail every season, many who go on to never play and waste their careers. So the Scottish standard can't be that bad. The money is the only thing that holds it back, if the SPL was getting how ever many millions the PL get it would be the same lots of smaller club's spending big money. It's always the same though, European players are considered more appealing options to club's because they can buy ready made players instead of using youth. For me, the Bundesliga is the best league in the world in that regard because its the only one where every team has an incentive to grow their own players and also be competitive hence why Germany were so successful. British football has had the arse torn out of it with money. Million pound academies and nobody in the top 4 is bringing young players through regularly. 

I love Scotland, just not for footie. Maybe if Rangers get on level terms with Celtic again it might make for a decent Old Firm game, and I really do hope Hearts (I prefer Edinburgh over Glasgow any day) can take Celtic finally out, but the level of play and players in the SPL just isn't there for me overall. Only leagues I truly watch are the EPL, Serie A, and the Bundesliga. I will watch (only to scout) La Liga (unless it is a big 3 game, then I usually watch) and Ligue 1 (only to scout a certian player or maybe Lyon v PSG or Lyon v Marseille or PSG v Marseille) a wee bit. 

La Liga has almost no players I want who are truly available. Most I would love to have will never be sold in their prime.

The only established players who are actually available would be (besides Firpo and obviously, hopefully our own Kovacic) Malcom (huge mistake by our board and also Barca's, as he is simply not playing), LW Mikel Oyarzabal, AMF Carlos Soler, AMF Pablo Fornals, CMF Manu Trigueros (poor mans Cesc), RW Iñaki Williams, AMF/RW Rafinha (Barca are fuckers to deal with when its a player they rate, and they rate Rafinha higher than Malcom atm), AMF Pablo Sarabia, and CF Maximiliano Gómez.

BTW, I am not slagging off Tierney, the main reason I didn't list him is that he will be more expensive by far than all above except Firpo and perhaps RB Achraf Hakimi (if Real Madrid would even sell him).

Firpo is worth the extra quid over Kierney IMHO at LB. Atm I cannot say the same for Hakimi over Valentino Lazaro. That may well change but Lazaro is REALLY good too. I also rated Nordi Mukiele and Wan-Bissaka as great values.

RM almost never sell young players they rate, and when they do, it is for insane prices. Asensio is perfect example. £100m for him is NOT a great price, yet RM offers him up at that and acts like it is a monster bargain. He has regressed in my book, and is not remotely near a Hazardian level.

To sum it all up. I would be over the moon if we sold Alonso and Emerson and bought Firpo AND Tierney (or Ferland Mendy).

Same with Azpi (I can hear the howls now) and Zappacosta and buy Hakimi (for fair price) and Valentino Lazaro.

Azpi is 30 next season, and fullbacks age horridly. Marcelo (always horrid on defence) is now falling off overall at 30yo. Injuries also pile up much more easily. Jordi Alba is literally the only other WC LB over 28. Had someone tey to say Filipe Luís (33yo) was still! LOLOL. Go watch the AM v Dortmund game and get back to me.

 Fortune favours the bold, and all my picks play at high level (including Europe) and thus are hardly academy level dice-rolls.

I know we never sell all 4 at once we have now, but we really need to at least being in great young players who can eventually bench Azpi and especially Alonso. 

The way things are going I am not getting my hopes up, but I am nothing if not an incredibly stubborn bish, so I will keep on posting.

 

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He really is useless now that his Goals and Assists have ran out, which was always predictable. 

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49 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

He really is useless now that his Goals and Assists have ran out, which was always predictable. 

He just signed a new deal. Doesn't need to work extra hard anymore.

eemanyooel, Fernando and Johnnyeye like this

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