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Spike

3. Marcos Alonso

Started by Spike,

927 posts in this topic
10 hours ago, manpe said:
This average manager has led those rotters to 6 wins out of 7. One draw and "Sarri Out" seeds getting planted already? So fucking spoilt.

I never said that Sarri is average, "including manager and the board" meant that they too could see how average Alonso is, if he doesn't score.

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52 minutes ago, El P. said:

I never said that Sarri is average, "including manager and the board" meant that they too could see how average Alonso is, if he doesn't score.

Man that's embarrassing, how could I misinterpret your and Vesper's posts so badly. :dunno: My only excuse was being under the influence and having a bad trip (very negative thinking) :doh: My bad

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Just now, manpe said:

Man that's embarrassing, how could I misinterpret your and Vesper's posts so badly. :dunno: My only excuse was being under the influence :doh:

Well, usually you are top poster so I gave you benefit of a doubt and stood calm, but yes, misunderstanding big time.

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10 hours ago, Robguima said:

Suspect we understand the word "average" a bit differently.

You say in your post that we have so few goal scorers in the team, which by definition makes Alonso, a goal scorer, not average. In a broader sense, a player who is linked with RM and plays for Spain is not average.

Once again, just pointing out that there is personal preference in the mix here, which is absolutely fine of course. On the other hand, in a game where (the key player) Hazard was invisible, I'm surprised to find this thread (of the left back) so active... :) are we not expecting a bit too much from our left back? "Just" defending seems to be enough for the other one...

Argument that he is linked with RM means nothing. It's not like he will replace Marcelo any time soon, they may have only wanted him as a backup.

I repeat, without goals he is average, and he will not keep scoring like in first 4 games. He have scored 6-7 goals per season for us, that's a goal every 4 games. That cannot justify all of his shortcomings.

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Alonso was awful yesterday. My issue with him and some of the claims made about him is he literally plays like yesterday every game. Average quality crosses, slows play down as he can’t take on full back one on one, poor defensively, and his passing is nothing better than average. Then every so often (playing as described) he pops in the box and happens to get fouled in the box or has a deflected header get turned in or makes a 10 yard pass assist and I keep hearing about how great he is going forward and how technically brilliant he is. The Newcastle game was a great example. Played exactly the same as yesterday but won a dubious penalty and had an off target header deflected in and he’s the best LB in the PL again.

 

I do understand and appreciate Alonso’s game. Few full backs play like him. He’s, I guess, a poacher from LB. Meunier is a player who’s similar (although better in a traditional full back role than Alonso). By that he rarely impacts the game from wide left, it is more him getting in the box and making things happen, getting on the end of passes/crosse, finding space. I’m no fan of him as an overall left back but I do concede his output is still strong since joining. But at what detriment to the team? He often pulls inside when Hazard is on the ball leaving him to do work on his own wife left and of course he can’t be in two places at once - West Ham often took advantage of space he left behind when he’s literally on the same level as Morata/Willian. 

 

Watch Robertson, Mendy, hell even Luke Shaw and they all impact the game for more positively and consistently going forward at LB than Alonso, by stretching teams, opening up space, creating chances, providing width and overlapping runs. With Mendy and Robertson even with assists from open play they beat Alonso so it’s not like other traditional full backs can’t match or better Alonso’s output. 

 

If we were smart while people still think he’s great (the amount of times I see ‘best LB in the world’ or ‘our version of Marcelo’ on twitter makes me wanna cry but twitter does that for most things) sell for big money and replace him. Unfortunately I think this guy is here for long term. I kinda get why people are attached with him with the occasional clutch goals he gets but I’m afraid it doesn’t cover up his cracks for me.

 

tL/dr: I basically just think we’d be a better team if we had a LB like Mendy/Robertson - I believe they’d match Alonso in goal contributions, roughly, but also improve team overall with the way they play and compliment our attackers.

 

 

 

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His cross isn't bad, but he isn't getting in crossing position because he can't beat his man or run fast to save his life. He is always marked.

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A better left full back is right there in our squad but our brilliant manager keeps persisting with David Luiz and Alonso... 

Am sick and tired of this buy Telles/Grimaldo talk... Don't get me wrong am all for quality injection into the team but we have a brilliant better quality player in Emerson... Watch the guy grow frustrated and leave for another team where he becomes  a beast.... 

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8 hours ago, El P. said:

Argument that he is linked with RM means nothing. It's not like he will replace Marcelo any time soon, they may have only wanted him as a backup.

I repeat, without goals he is average, and he will not keep scoring like in first 4 games. He have scored 6-7 goals per season for us, that's a goal every 4 games. That cannot justify all of his shortcomings

but but if you have to take his goals away for him to become average like you say, wouldn’t it make him distinctly not average with the goals? :)

Regardless I certainly see a hell lot more than “just” important goals from him. I bet Spain sees that too... ;) 

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Languid style, appears lacklustre at times almost lazy- but will retort with pinpoint assists, and crucial goals so he's a bit of a marmite player amongst fans, but a club favourite. 

More concerned with Kovatic atm. Barkley impresses more.

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4 hours ago, eemanyooel said:

A better left full back is right there in our squad but our brilliant manager keeps persisting with David Luiz and Alonso... 

Am sick and tired of this buy Telles/Grimaldo talk... Don't get me wrong am all for quality injection into the team but we have a brilliant better quality player in Emerson... Watch the guy grow frustrated and leave for another team where he becomes  a beast.... 

Some points.

Telles (75m euro release clause on new contract) and Jose Gaya (100m euro release clause in new contract) are now off the table.

The only 4 actually available top class LB's at the moment are

1. Ryan Sessegnon (but Fulham want around £80m) Would love him, but cannot see the board dropping that type of money, plus he really wants to be a winger or AMF.

2. Junior Firpo of Real Betis who I think we need to beat Shitty to. He has rocketed up the charts and is the real deal. Big (1.84m) super pacey (Kyle Walker level fast) great tackler and passer. 54m euro release clause and unlike Porto and Valencia, Betis will negotiate and need cash.

3. Alejandro Grimaldo - Benfica 2nd best affordable option but has so many clubs sniffing around.

4. Wendell - Bayer Leverkusen (issue there is we need Bailey and perhaps Tah, plus I would love to eventually pull AMF Kai Havertz, so Bayer will not let all go in a window or a window and a half). They are struggling atm and will perhaps miss out on Europe,  which aids us greatly.

Firpo would be PERFECT. Far better in long run than Alonso. 

As for Emerson, it is not just Sarri not rating him. At this point it is looking like he is still damaged goods from his knee injury at Roma. If he was at pre injury Roma level now, I have no doubt he would starting, or at least playing a lot more.

At that old level the only LB's I would rate over him (in terms of actually buying as Marcelo, Jordi Alba are too old) would be (and remember, many of these are NOT available):

In order:

David Alaba

Lucas Hernandez

Alex Sandro (after this next summer, and maybe even now, too old to justify £70m that Juve want) 

Benjamin Mendy

Jose Gaya

Ryan Sessegnon 

Junior Firpo (he could move above even some here)

Emerson (pre injury)

Alex Telles

If Emerson turns out to be Zouma'd we need to cut him loose. If not, then we still need to move on Firpo. Better player at end if the day. Emerson if recovers finally is worth keeping for rotation/back up.

Alonso needs to go asap, he is not a Sarriball LB, he is a defensive liability and Real want him badly and would pay basically what Firpo would cost.

 

Image result for junior firpo

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21 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Some points.

 

What do you think on Theo Hernandez? When he went to Madrid I was very jealous, for just £30m too or thereabouts. Was convinced they’d got one of the future best LBs in the world. First season doesn’t appear to have gone well.

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10 hours ago, manpe said:

Man that's embarrassing, how could I misinterpret your and Vesper's posts so badly. :dunno: My only excuse was being under the influence and having a bad trip (very negative thinking) :doh: My bad

totally oki! I learned long ago (well as long ago as a 26yo can, lol) that pills and internet do not mix

 

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8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

totally oki! I learned long ago (well as long ago as a 26yo can, lol) that pills and internet do not mix

 

How could you tell it was pills not weed or powder or some nasty intravenous shit? :carlo: Tho tbh I'm under one now, but yesterday I took 4.5 and it fucked my mind up badly. Never again. I had my birthday yesterday and when a few people came to congratulate me I couldn't even crack a smile or say anything beyond a tranquil "thank you". Feel like a douche. They brought me food and a box of raffellos (my favs, other than ferrero rocher maybe), so fucking sweet :blush:

 

Marcos has nothing on Fernando Alonso as far as Alonsos go. But he does have a premier league title so Fernando can stick to playing with cars.

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22 minutes ago, ja1 said:

What do you think on Theo Hernandez? When he went to Madrid I was very jealous, for just £30m too or thereabouts. Was convinced they’d got one of the future best LBs in the world. First season doesn’t appear to have gone well.

I have put him on other LB lists as a possible squad player. Dont rate him atm anywhere near the ones I listed here (all on the list above are starting quality, above Alonso, for Sarriball system.

Lucas, his brother, WOW, what a player. Real bought the wrong one, lolol.

Firpo is my new obsession, have watched him play in 5 or six games, full games. Real deal, explosive athlete and he is Spanish bred and trained, so superb technical skill, like Alonso and Gaya, Alba, etc. 

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5 minutes ago, manpe said:

How could you tell it was pills not weed or powder or some nasty intravenous shit? :carlo: Tho tbh I'm under one now, but yesterday I took 4.5 and it fucked my mind up badly. Never again. I had my birthday yesterday and when a few people came to congratulate me I couldn't even crack a smile or say anything beyond a tranquil "thank you". Feel like a douche. They brought me food and a box of raffellos (my favs, other than ferrero rocher maybe), so fucking sweet :blush:

 

Marcos has nothing on Fernando Alonso as far as Alonsos go. But he does have a premier league title so Fernando can stick to playing with cars.

I guessed pills, as you said trip, and dont know many who do straight LSD anymore, lolol.

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13 hours ago, Vesper said:

Some points.

Telles (75m euro release clause on new contract) and Jose Gaya (100m euro release clause in new contract) are now off the table.

The only 4 actually available top class LB's at the moment are

1. Ryan Sessegnon (but Fulham want around £80m) Would love him, but cannot see the board dropping that type of money, plus he really wants to be a winger or AMF.

2. Junior Firpo of Real Betis who I think we need to beat Shitty to. He has rocketed up the charts and is the real deal. Big (1.84m) super pacey (Kyle Walker level fast) great tackler and passer. 54m euro release clause and unlike Porto and Valencia, Betis will negotiate and need cash.

3. Alejandro Grimaldo - Benfica 2nd best affordable option but has so many clubs sniffing around.

4. Wendell - Bayer Leverkusen (issue there is we need Bailey and perhaps Tah, plus I would love to eventually pull AMF Kai Havertz, so Bayer will not let all go in a window or a window and a half). They are struggling atm and will perhaps miss out on Europe,  which aids us greatly.

Firpo would be PERFECT. Far better in long run than Alonso. 

As for Emerson, it is not just Sarri not rating him. At this point it is looking like he is still damaged goods from his knee injury at Roma. If he was at pre injury Roma level now, I have no doubt he would starting, or at least playing a lot more.

At that old level the only LB's I would rate over him (in terms of actually buying as Marcelo, Jordi Alba are too old) would be (and remember, many of these are NOT available):

In order:

David Alaba

Lucas Hernandez

Alex Sandro (after this next summer, and maybe even now, too old to justify £70m that Juve want) 

Benjamin Mendy

Jose Gaya

Ryan Sessegnon 

Junior Firpo (he could move above even some here)

Emerson (pre injury)

Alex Telles

If Emerson turns out to be Zouma'd we need to cut him loose. If not, then we still need to move on Firpo. Better player at end if the day. Emerson if recovers finally is worth keeping for rotation/back up.

Alonso needs to go asap, he is not a Sarriball LB, he is a defensive liability and Real want him badly and would pay basically what Firpo would cost.

 

Image result for junior firpo

Give Emerson a run of games he is far better than all those names above bar Telles and Alaba... 

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On 9/24/2018 at 7:18 PM, Robguima said:
but but if you have to take his goals away for him to become average like you say, wouldn’t it make him distinctly not average with the goals?
Regardless I certainly see a hell lot more than “just” important goals from him. I bet Spain sees that too...  

Ok, he is average plus a goal here and there. So he is slightly above average... SCORE mate, I am defeated! :D
Problem in system is Azpi too. Azpi is not good at creating width, is not fast too, he cannot beat his man. We cannot have two fullbacks like that, one must be good at that.

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48 minutes ago, eemanyooel said:

Give Emerson a run of games he is far better than all those names above bar Telles and Alaba... 

Ridiculous, and Telles is the lowest on the list other than Wendell and probably Grimaldo. Glad you are not making scouting evals for the already fucked up board we have.

Go to any top 50 club in world

offer them

any one of the following

Lucas Hernandez

Alex Sandro 

Benjamin Mendy

Jose Gaya

Ryan Sessegnon

and a CURRENT, post injury form OR even a pre injury form Emerson

 

I guarantee none of the 50 choose Emerson

Go try and buy any of those for less than £60-70m, now, it wont happen. Alex Sandro next summer maybe you could get for £60m or so, due to his age then. We had £75m turned down by Juve 14 months ago.

If we sold Emerson right now, we would be lucky to get back the entire £29m we potentially spent (£20m pure trans fee plus £9m in add-ons and possible bonuses)

Also, you never addressed the injury concern, which sure are starting to look real.

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6 hours ago, Vesper said:

Ridiculous, and Telles is the lowest on the list other than Wendell and probably Grimaldo. Glad you are not making scouting evals for the already fucked up board we have.

Go to any top 50 club in world

offer them

any one of the following

Lucas Hernandez

Alex Sandro 

Benjamin Mendy

Jose Gaya

Ryan Sessegnon

and a CURRENT, post injury form OR even a pre injury form Emerson

 

I guarantee none of the 50 choose Emerson

Go try and buy any of those for less than £60-70m, now, it wont happen. Alex Sandro next summer maybe you could get for £60m or so, due to his age then. We had £75m turned down by Juve 14 months ago.

If we sold Emerson right now, we would be lucky to get back the entire £29m we potentially spent (£20m pure trans fee plus £9m in add-ons and possible bonuses)

Also, you never addressed the injury concern, which sure are starting to look real.

most of those listed players are playing mid to low level teams where there is probably no much pressure on them...its quite ridiculous you are placing Emerson on market after almost none appearance he made for the club...there is a reason Juventus wanted him but you are the only one that felt no top team wanted him...football is not a fantasy game whereby u just conjure names and feel because of their potential they will click or fit in the club...until Emerson is given a run of  games and fails woefully then we can discuss about any potential or quality left full back in market..

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4 hours ago, eemanyooel said:

most of those listed players are playing mid to low level teams where there is probably no much pressure on them...its quite ridiculous you are placing Emerson on market after almost none appearance he made for the club...there is a reason Juventus wanted him but you are the only one that felt no top team wanted him...football is not a fantasy game whereby u just conjure names and feel because of their potential they will click or fit in the club...until Emerson is given a run of  games and fails woefully then we can discuss about any potential or quality left full back in market..

LOL at low level teams

Atletico Madrid

Juventus

Manchester City

Valencia ( in  Champions League, finished only 3 points behind Real Madrid.

Potential???? LOLOL They are starters on multiple CL finalists, crazy amount of league titles, TWO WC winners, all time English season points, margin goal scoring team, etc

You are so far out of your depth, and your attempts to insult me make you look foolish.

You still have not once addressed the injury issue

conjure names?

You really do not know football at all apparently, lol

I do valuation calculations on hundreds of millions, even billions of pounds/euros/USD, etc of M & A deals for a living

figuring out footie players at world class level, with very few numerically to plug into calculations is child's play compared to that

also, if you bothered to bloody read, I said to sell him ONLY if he is found out to be perma damaged

I rate him 8th best under 29yo LB in the world, IF healthy 

Juve look at him as a squad player, they have and had the 2nd best, or 3rd best LB in the world in Alex Sandro, a player we went as high as 75m on and were turned down, we failed to grab him 3 straight windows.much to the damage of those windows, and our team overall

Only reason Roma sold Emerson when they did is because they rolled the dice that he was probably damaged goods, and he was the safest bet to help avoid FFP sanctions

I have seen nothing to dispel this

quit whilst you are behind

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