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Special Juan

The Conte Thread

Started by Special Juan,

8,589 posts in this topic
10 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Yeah people just need to take a quick look at the amount of players we signed who played in Italy or are Italian in the 2 years Conte was manager to realize Conte had a clear hand in our transfer targets.

Rudiger, Zappacosta, Emerson, Alonso and while we got Luiz and Kante our first choices were Koulibaly and Nainggolan. 

Nainggolan rejected us (https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/radja-nainggolan-says-he-rejected-chelsea-because-he-would-not-give-up-perfect-life-in-rome-for-a3777761.html)

ADL rejected our £58 million bid (https://www.football-italia.net/92528/adl-chelsea-bid-£58m-koulibaly)

That's 6 players in 2 years under Conte. How many italian players did we sign the 2 years before Conte ? 1 well 0.5 actually if we're being precise. Filipe Luis is apparently part Italian. :dunno:

Clear difference yet you still have people yapping about how our managers have no say whatsoever. 

Our last Serie A signing pre Conte was Sheva.

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1 hour ago, Belgiannutt said:

Yeah people just need to take a quick look at the amount of players we signed who played in Italy or are Italian in the 2 years Conte was manager to realize Conte had a clear hand in our transfer targets.

Rudiger, Zappacosta, Emerson, Alonso and while we got Luiz and Kante our first choices were Koulibaly and Nainggolan. 

Nainggolan rejected us (https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/radja-nainggolan-says-he-rejected-chelsea-because-he-would-not-give-up-perfect-life-in-rome-for-a3777761.html)

ADL rejected our £58 million bid (https://www.football-italia.net/92528/adl-chelsea-bid-£58m-koulibaly)

That's 6 players in 2 years under Conte. How many italian players did we sign the 2 years before Conte ? 1 well 0.5 actually if we're being precise. Filipe Luis is apparently part Italian. :dunno:

Clear difference yet you still have people yapping about how our managers have no say whatsoever. 

You're being incredibly disingenuous in your presentation. Let's take a look at the 4 players we have purchased from Serie A.

Rudiger, the first signing that you listed, was linked to usin 2015. Therefore, we can eliminate him as a pure Conte signing.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/11685454/Chelsea-transfer-news-and-rumours-Stuttgart-defender-Antonio-Rudiger-wants-Stamford-Bridge-move.html

Emerson, the guy who has played 559 minutes all year. Do you really think it is fair to characterize him as a Conte signing?

Marcos Alonso- He may very well have been a signing Conte approved of, but the club were desperate to replace him with Alex Sandro. Yes, Sandro is a Serie A player, but he also happens to be one of the best players in his position and a top player that we would be looking at regardless.

Zappacosta- Bench player, but he's probably a signing that Conte approved of.

As for the links to Koulibaly and Nainggolan, these are top players and they both fit the player profile that we sign,Koulibaly especially. In addition, these are mere links. we have been linked with Serie A players on numerous occasions throughout the years.

Here are two examples:

Higuain while at Napoli https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/gonzalo-higuain-to-chelsea-napoli-striker-linked-with-30m-move-to-stamford-bridge-10293584.html

Berrardi https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/615255/Sussuolo-Domenico-Berardi-Transfer-News-Gossip

In addition to that, we signed both Juan Cuadrado and Marco Amelia less than 2 years prior to Conte's arrival. So in your arbitrary 2 year period prior to Conte, we have signed 2 players from Italian Leagues compared to the 3 signings since Conte has arrived. Nothing noteworthy about that.

The last thing to consider is how many signings we have made in the last 2 years. In total we have made 13 signings. That means that 3 out of 13 signings come from Serie A, but only 2 of those seem to be players that Conte likes. This paints an entirely different picture than what you have.

Saying that Conte has no say in transfers is a hyperbolic statement, but that doesn't mean that Conte has much influence.The reality is that the club have made more signings that Conte disapproves of than he has approved of. Barkley, Emerson, Drinkwater, and Batshuayi have all had a terrible time getting games under Conte. In addition, we know that the club disregarded Conte's plans when they decided to sell Matic. This is indicative of a manager with little influence. Overall, the point that is trying to be made is that this; the current team is not a team built by Conte. Our current team was built by those at the top of the club hierarchy. This means that if the club is to move forward, we need to improve our decision making in the transfer market.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Panic said:

You're being incredibly disingenuous in your presentation. Let's take a look at the 4 players we have purchased from Serie A.

Rudiger, the first signing that you listed, was linked to usin 2015. Therefore, we can eliminate him as a pure Conte signing.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/11685454/Chelsea-transfer-news-and-rumours-Stuttgart-defender-Antonio-Rudiger-wants-Stamford-Bridge-move.html

Emerson, the guy who has played 559 minutes all year. Do you really think it is fair to characterize him as a Conte signing?

Marcos Alonso- He may very well have been a signing Conte approved of, but the club were desperate to replace him with Alex Sandro. Yes, Sandro is a Serie A player, but he also happens to be one of the best players in his position and a top player that we would be looking at regardless.

Zappacosta- Bench player, but he's probably a signing that Conte approved of.

As for the links to Koulibaly and Nainggolan, these are top players and they both fit the player profile that we sign,Koulibaly especially. In addition, these are mere links. we have been linked with Serie A players on numerous occasions throughout the years.

Here are two examples:

Higuain while at Napoli https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/gonzalo-higuain-to-chelsea-napoli-striker-linked-with-30m-move-to-stamford-bridge-10293584.html

Berrardi https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/615255/Sussuolo-Domenico-Berardi-Transfer-News-Gossip

In addition to that, we signed both Juan Cuadrado and Marco Amelia less than 2 years prior to Conte's arrival. So in your arbitrary 2 year period prior to Conte, we have signed 2 players from Italian Leagues compared to the 3 signings since Conte has arrived. Nothing noteworthy about that.

The last thing to consider is how many signings we have made in the last 2 years. In total we have made 13 signings. That means that 3 out of 13 signings come from Serie A, but only 2 of those seem to be players that Conte likes. This paints an entirely different picture than what you have.

Saying that Conte has no say in transfers is a hyperbolic statement, but that doesn't mean that Conte has much influence.The reality is that the club have made more signings that Conte disapproves of than he has approved of. Barkley, Emerson, Drinkwater, and Batshuayi have all had a terrible time getting games under Conte. In addition, we know that the club disregarded Conte's plans when they decided to sell Matic. This is indicative of a manager with little influence. Overall, the point that is trying to be made is that this; the current team is not a team built by Conte. Our current team was built by those at the top of the club hierarchy. This means that if the club is to move forward, we need to improve our decision making in the transfer market.

 

 

And also 2 pf those signings Alonso and Rudi have both turned out to be good buys whether some peeps among us agree or not.

Alonso is a well liked player among most clubs and was the poster child of a LWB eventho we might see areas where we wish he was much better.

Rudi has got better as the season went on and has turned in some very good performances. OK I was pretty slow at warming up to him but we have other CNs I would get rid of before him.

Yes we have nought some very questionable players but I cant even see that Conte would have heard of Barkley,Drinkwater let alone put them on his wats list.

Such a shame we didn't manage to bring in KK and Radja.tho.

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3 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

And also 2 pf those signings Alonso and Rudi have both turned out to be good buys whether some peeps among us agree or not.

Alonso is a well liked player among most clubs and was the poster child of a LWB eventho we might see areas where we wish he was much better.

Rudi has got better as the season went on and has turned in some very good performances. OK I was pretty slow at warming up to him but we have other CNs I would get rid of before him.

Yes we have nought some very questionable players but I cant even see that Conte would have heard of Barkley,Drinkwater let alone put them on his wats list.

Such a shame we didn't manage to bring in KK and Radja.tho.

was that the reason why he couldn't give Barkley a run of games even when our midfield was so porous dogshit and nothing to write home about despite Fabregas been absolutely abysmal... Look at Liverpool ffs ....you all hail their style of play and rate klopp so high yet remember Henderson Lovren Arnold Robertson and all the likes were part of the spectacular klopp team... This same conte that dropped Ivanovic Terry and the likes season before the last for good now antithecal to what he claimed and display he used to be.... Barkley might be injury prone but there is a fine ability and quality in him which I believe will be brilliant under a manager like Sarri (provided we end up employing him)...not to mention Emerson so brilliant under the 3 straight matches he played when Alonso was out only to include him straight back into starting line up after his suspension was over... I can go on and on....Hazard is not a fool for clamouring attacking football over the dogshit of football whereby we use 8 defenders even over opposition like Watford and Southampton.. 

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17 minutes ago, eemanyooel said:

was that the reason why he couldn't give Barkley a run of games even when our midfield was so porous dogshit and nothing to write home about despite Fabregas been absolutely abysmal... Look at Liverpool ffs ....you all hail their style of play and rate klopp so high yet remember Henderson Lovren Arnold Robertson and all the likes were part of the spectacular klopp team... This same conte that dropped Ivanovic Terry and the likes season before the last for good now antithecal to what he claimed and display he used to be.... Barkley might be injury prone but there is a fine ability and quality in him which I believe will be brilliant under a manager like Sarri (provided we end up employing him)...not to mention Emerson so brilliant under the 3 straight matches he played when Alonso was out only to include him straight back into starting line up after his suspension was over... I can go on and on....Hazard is not a fool for clamouring attacking football over the dogshit of football whereby we use 8 defenders even over opposition like Watford and Southampton.. 

You talk like Conte was the only manager to do that. Where was you when Mou was here? we have an owner who places a win over style. Tho saying that we played some of the best football last season Ive ever seen us play yet many seem to just forget about that.

Conte made some decisions I didn't agree with neither, His substituting style, some team selections. I'm sure we all woulda given Barkley,Emerson more time.

BIG generalization about us ALL hailing the bindipping slags too :P

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20 minutes ago, Panic said:

You're being incredibly disingenuous in your presentation. Let's take a look at the 4 players we have purchased from Serie A.

Rudiger, the first signing that you listed, was linked to usin 2015. Therefore, we can eliminate him as a pure Conte signing.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/11685454/Chelsea-transfer-news-and-rumours-Stuttgart-defender-Antonio-Rudiger-wants-Stamford-Bridge-move.html

Emerson, the guy who has played 559 minutes all year. Do you really think it is fair to characterize him as a Conte signing?

Marcos Alonso- He may very well have been a signing Conte approved of, but the club were desperate to replace him with Alex Sandro. Yes, Sandro is a Serie A player, but he also happens to be one of the best players in his position and a top player that we would be looking at regardless.

Zappacosta- Bench player, but he's probably a signing that Conte approved of.

As for the links to Koulibaly and Nainggolan, these are top players and they both fit the player profile that we sign,Koulibaly especially. In addition, these are mere links. we have been linked with Serie A players on numerous occasions throughout the years.

Here are two examples:

Higuain while at Napoli https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/gonzalo-higuain-to-chelsea-napoli-striker-linked-with-30m-move-to-stamford-bridge-10293584.html

Berrardi https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/615255/Sussuolo-Domenico-Berardi-Transfer-News-Gossip

In addition to that, we signed both Juan Cuadrado and Marco Amelia less than 2 years prior to Conte's arrival. So in your arbitrary 2 year period prior to Conte, we have signed 2 players from Italian Leagues compared to the 3 signings since Conte has arrived. Nothing noteworthy about that.

The last thing to consider is how many signings we have made in the last 2 years. In total we have made 13 signings. That means that 3 out of 13 signings come from Serie A, but only 2 of those seem to be players that Conte likes. This paints an entirely different picture than what you have.

Saying that Conte has no say in transfers is a hyperbolic statement, but that doesn't mean that Conte has much influence.The reality is that the club have made more signings that Conte disapproves of than he has approved of. Barkley, Emerson, Drinkwater, and Batshuayi have all had a terrible time getting games under Conte. In addition, we know that the club disregarded Conte's plans when they decided to sell Matic. This is indicative of a manager with little influence. Overall, the point that is trying to be made is that this; the current team is not a team built by Conte. Our current team was built by those at the top of the club hierarchy. This means that if the club is to move forward, we need to improve our decision making in the transfer market.

 

 

 I never said Conte had complete control just that he does have a clear hand in our transfer targets. 

Regarding the Rudiger link all i'm finding is some reports quoting his agent claiming we showed interest but there aren't any reliable outlets reporting us actually making a bid. 

Emerson had a significant knee injury and we all know Conte is extremely cautious with players who've been injured. Emerson played that little because he was considered a squad player by Conte and he only came in the january transfer window. 

Zappacosta has 1000 + minutes because he was bough in the summer. 

Not sure why you feel the need to dismiss Koulibaly, Sandro and Nainggolan just because they're top players. There are plenty of top players in football the fact that both of them are from the seria A is significant considering they were our primary targets.

Add in the 4 signings we made and it's clear that Conte had a signficant part to play in what players we wanted. 

"These are mere links" euhm no they're not. Did you actually click the links i put in my post ? 

Both have direct quotes proving we went after them. The first has Nainggolan himself stating

 "I could have gone to Chelsea and many other clubs, but starting something knew when you are 28, 29, in a new culture, another lifestyle, that's not for me," he told Belgium's Sport Voetbal Magazine. 

The second has quotes from ADL stating “They offered to me £30, 35, 40, 45, 50 [million],” declared De Laurentiis.

2 vs 6 it's still a clear difference. It kinda speaks for itself to be honest. If you want to stick your head in the sand then that's fine but don't tell i'm being dishonest just because you don't like it.

Matic wanted to leave. Not much the club could do. 

Disagree with your conclusion. This squad was built by the board AND Conte. Just because we signed players that Conte wasn't 100 % on board with doesn't mean you can just absolve him of any responsibility. 

I do agree with your last sentence although i would add to it that we also need to hire a manager that actually wants to be here, works with what he got and doesn't start sulking when we're in the middle of the freakin season because he's unhappy with our transfers.

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39 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

You talk like Conte was the only manager to do that. Where was you when Mou was here? we have an owner who places a win over style. Tho saying that we played some of the best football last season Ive ever seen us play yet many seem to just forget about that.

Conte made some decisions I didn't agree with neither, His substituting style, some team selections. I'm sure we all woulda given Barkley,Emerson more time.

BIG generalization about us ALL hailing the bindipping slags too :P

our title winning season under conte...yes we played good attacking football but this concluded season conte made mourinho look like Guardiola in both his selection style of play substitutions and the rest which is sad to say cos murinho himself is a abysmal kinda of manager when it comes to attacking football... Then placing win over style doesn't mean u play fucking false 9 against Bournemouth and Watford and play 9 players behind the ball against City and other abysmal selections from conte...the board screwed up the season by not signing top players last summer but conte screwed up top 4 position....

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16 minutes ago, eemanyooel said:

our title winning season under conte...yes we played good attacking football but this concluded season conte made mourinho look like Guardiola in both his selection style of play substitutions and the rest which is sad to say cos murinho himself is a abysmal kinda of manager when it comes to attacking football... Then placing win over style doesn't mean u play fucking false 9 against Bournemouth and Watford and play 9 players behind the ball against City and other abysmal selections from conte...the board screwed up the season by not signing top players last summer but conte screwed up top 4 position....

i think you're just preaching to the converted bruv. These are points i'm sure the majority of us (here at least) think

Apart from you cant put us missing the top 4 all on Contes back cause the players threw the towel in weeks ago. The majority of them deserve a fine as its probably more important to them than our club badge.

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People have said "I'd rather stick with Conte"....

I am absolutely baffled. It's like you want to sink us down lower. I'm going to put aside Conte's horrific tactics this season so I won't go in to that.

But his relationship with the players and the board are all broken. Letting him stay is recipe for disaster. How would these players, including Willian and Luiz respond to him next season? Will the board back Conte? Will Conte himself care for the club knowing he's out after next season?

We need new coach as well as new players. The Conte days here should be over.

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People have said "I'd rather stick with Conte"....
I am absolutely baffled. It's like you want to sink us down lower. I'm going to put aside Conte's horrific tactics this season so I won't go in to that.
But his relationship with the players and the board are all broken. Letting him stay is recipe for disaster. How would these players, including Willian and Luiz respond to him next season? Will the board back Conte? Will Conte himself care for the club knowing he's out after next season?
We need new coach as well as new players. The Conte days here should be over.
Agreed. Even though i like him and ideally would like him to stay, the relationships are too damaged to go on.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

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8 hours ago, Tomo said:

Our last Serie A signing pre Conte was Sheva.

Cuadrado.

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On 29/5/2018 at 5:11 PM, Tomo said:

So in other words, when we do well it's because Conte's a genius, but when we don't it's everyone else's fault bar his? got it!!!

let's see how many titles chelsea will win without conte, with this board's policy

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9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

 I never said Conte had complete control just that he does have a clear hand in our transfer targets. 

 

The implication of your post is that Conte has had a major influence in our transfer dealings. The people you criticize do not believe that is the case.

9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Regarding the Rudiger link all i'm finding is some reports quoting his agent claiming we showed interest but there aren't any reliable outlets reporting us actually making a bid. 

 

The entire point of the link was to show that Chelsea were interested in the player. The point was not to show that we made a bid. That is not necessary.

9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

 Emerson had a significant knee injury and we all know Conte is extremely cautious with players who've been injured. Emerson played that little because he was considered a squad player by Conte and he only came in the january transfer window. 

Zappacosta has 1000 + minutes because he was bough in the summer. 

 

Conte is cautious with injured players. The problem with applying that to Emerson is that he had made his return from injury in December at Roma, and if I recall correctly, he had been available for selection for quite some time at Roma, he just fell out of favor. The last bit could be inncorrect, but if you look at a player like Bakayoko who had surgery in the summer, there is a stark difference. Yes, Conte rushed him back for the Tottenham game, but Bakayoko continued to play game after the game, even when we had Fabregas fit. Your last point about Emerson is probably the most important. Emerson is a squad player, but Conte wasn't looking for a squad player at that position. He was looking for a top player, like Sandro. Conte may have given the ok, but he clearly didn't value him as a player.

9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Not sure why you feel the need to dismiss Koulibaly, Sandro and Nainggolan just because they're top players. There are plenty of top players in football the fact that both of them are from the seria A is significant considering they were our primary targets.

Add in the 4 signings we made and it's clear that Conte had a signficant part to play in what players we wanted. 

"These are mere links" euhm no they're not. Did you actually click the links i put in my post ? 

Both have direct quotes proving we went after them. The first has Nainggolan himself stating

 "I could have gone to Chelsea and many other clubs, but starting something knew when you are 28, 29, in a new culture, another lifestyle, that's not for me," he told Belgium's Sport Voetbal Magazine. 

The second has quotes from ADL stating “They offered to me £30, 35, 40, 45, 50 [million],” declared De Laurentiis.

2 vs 6 it's still a clear difference. It kinda speaks for itself to be honest. If you want to stick your head in the sand then that's fine but don't tell i'm being dishonest just because you don't like it.

The reason to dismiss those targets is because we are a top team. Top teams need top players and don't discriminate based on the league that player is from. Sandro is arguably the second best left back in the world. Do you think that the Conte is responsible for our pursuit of him?Look at United, they are in pursuit of a top left back. Who are they after? Sandro. Top players aren't equally distributed across European leagues. Just look at the left back position. To get players of a similar quality you have to deal with the likes of Barca, Real Madrid, or Bayern. Juventus is a much easier club to deal with, they will sell their top players.

You re correct that the links between Koulibaly and Nainggolan are much stronger. It's confirmed that the club made bids for them.Still, that doesn't change much. Especially given that they are players that fit the Chelsea mold. Koulibaly is one of the most physical defenders in the world. He's very strong and quick. He also happens to be quite comfortable on the ball. These are players that Chelsea would have pursued with a different manager.

It's not 2v6. Rudiger, Koulibaly, and Nainggolan are not players that you can attribute Conte to. Yes they are from Serie A. But these are not players that you can say the club would not have pursued in absence of Conte. You have to be careful with the inference you're trying to make. Take a look at the state of Serie A. The overall quality of the league has been widely criticized over the years. But recently, the state of the league has improved. Juventus, Roma, and Napoli have all improved. Juventus have two appearances in the Champion's league final in the past 4 years, Roma have just made a semifinals appearance in the Champion's League, and Napoli are being talked about throughout Europe because of the high quality of football that they play. Is it any surprise that the club are after top players from these teams? It's not.

Emerson, Alonso and Zappacosta are slightly different. But, as i have pointed out, the club made 2 Serie A signings in the 2 years prior to Conte. The 3 signings we have made since Conte's arrival don't stand out at that much.

When you analyze our transfer dealings, it makes it quite difficult to make the inference you tried to make. In addition, you have failed to provide any compelling evidence that would suggest that Conte is responsible for the pursuit or signing of the players you listed. Add this, with a little bit of Context , i.e. the club have made 13 signings since Conte's arrival, and your argument falls apart. It's just not reasonable to make the inferences you're making.

9 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

 

Matic wanted to leave. Not much the club could do. 

 

Disagree with your conclusion. This squad was built by the board AND Conte. Just because we signed players that Conte wasn't 100 % on board with doesn't mean you can just absolve him of any responsibility. 

I do agree with your last sentence although i would add to it that we also need to hire a manager that actually wants to be here, works with what he got and doesn't start sulking when we're in the middle of the freakin season because he's unhappy with our transfers.

Diego Costa wanted to leave. What did the club do? We held on to him for two years. This club has, and can keep a player that wants to leave. Especially if that player is in their plans.

Sure, the squad was built by the board and Conte. Just like how i get credit for cooking dinner when I turn on the oven. You see the problem? It's dishonest to include Conte when the role he plays is so trivial and when club make so many decisions without his approval.

We are in agreement on your final point. Conte's behavior has been unacceptable this season. We need someone motivated, and more importantly, someone who is willing to work with what the club provide and not bitch about it.

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Conte spotted in the stands watching Italy - Holland game. He looked like a man that has aged 10 years in the past 12 months

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I lost most of the respect I had for Conte after the recent weeks events. I mean, the club is openly looking for another manager while he still is in charge...instead of keeping his pride and walking away, he is accepting this situation because he does't want to lose the money. I really doubt Mourinho would accept this kind of shit.

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Man standing his ground, not running away like some pussy and not allowing himself to be bullied out of the club. Nothing but respect for signor Conte.

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1 minute ago, pHaRaOn said:

Man standing his ground, not running away like some pussy and not allowing himself to be bullied out of the club. Nothing but respect for signor Conte.

9bb0a3b1cb26bc09de21d61e61c37241.gif

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1 hour ago, Henrique said:

I lost most of the respect I had for Conte after the recent weeks events. I mean, the club is openly looking for another manager while he still is in charge...instead of keeping his pride and walking away, he is accepting this situation because he does't want to lose the money. I really doubt Mourinho would accept this kind of shit.

tbf, he'd be stupid to purposely walk away with nothing if he knows that he can wait a few weeks and get 9M lol

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