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Special Juan

The Conte Thread

Started by Special Juan,

5,868 posts in this topic
23 minutes ago, Jason said:

Then you expected to play an open attacking game against City? Only a fool would do that especially with the players and playing style we got.

We set up to play on the break, something we have done countless of times over the years, but we were certainly forced to sit back a lot more than we like because we couldn't keep possession to save our lives, even after Morata went off. City just ended up passing the ball and tiring us out knowing we just played days ago in Madrid. Were you complaining when we pretty much played the same way last season against City?

How did he give Arsenal too much respect when we tried to go for the win but just happened to come against a useful Arsenal for once?

No, don’t expect to play an open attacking game against City but we could’ve approached the game in a much more positive manner. Instead of trying to get the best out of the best talent in our team (Hazard) we were only too worried about the threats City offered. We didn’t cause them any sort of problems, why? 

We set up to play on the break but we’re the home team. After Morata went off we went from playing on the break to playing for a draw. That’s when the performance went downhill - Conte didn’t want to risk playing with a CF that could’ve stretched the City back line a bit more, even though we already had 9/10 men behind the ball. That was the biggest problem of this performance alongside the rest of Conte’s in game management that @MrExcalibur100 outlined pretty well. 

As soon as he chose Willian instead of Michy I knew we were finished. That was the difference between our performance last season and the one we’ve just witnessed. Completely lost the ambition and mentality to win the game. Look at Conte’s post match comments, he’s actually ok with the performance.

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2 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

No, don’t expect to play an open attacking game against City but we could’ve approached the game in a much more positive manner. Instead of trying to get the best of the best talent in our team (Hazard) we were only worried about the threats City offered. We didn’t cause them any sort of problems, why? 

We set up to play on the break but we’re the home team. After Morata went off we went from playing on the break to playing for a draw. That’s when the performance went downhill - Conte didn’t want to risk playing with a CF that could’ve stretched the City back line a bit more, even though we already had 9/10 men behind the ball. That was the biggest problem of this performance alongside the rest of Conte’s in game management that @MrExcalibur100 outlined pretty well. 

As soon as he chose Willian instead of Michy I knew we were finished. 

 

Are we debating about the game plan or the execution here because we seem to be going on about 2 different things?

Conte certainly made a few wrong player selections today - that I don't disagree. Thought the game plan was right but the execution was wrong. Not putting Batshuayi (or even Pedro) on for Morata was certainly a baffling one when we looked a tad better after he came on.

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16 minutes ago, Jason said:

Are we debating about the game plan or the execution here because we seem to be going on about 2 different things?

Conte certainly made a few wrong player selections today - that I don't disagree. Thought the game plan was right but the execution was wrong. Not putting Batshuayi (or even Pedro) on for Morata was certainly a baffling one when we looked a tad better after he came on.

Well, mostly execution but also game plan. The game plan changed after Morata went off - around the 30th minute. Only had 2 more shots all game since then. 

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2 hours ago, Fernando said:

I think the game was over once morata got injured. 

Sadly we don't have anything after him and that's the board fault. 

 

It's a shame about Llorente, would have been perfect backup for Morata.

Now we're stuck with Michy, who is a decent player but he seems to care more about Twitter than actually improving himself. 

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7 hours ago, The Skipper said:

Batshuayi is much more of an outlet than Willian. It was just a massive mistake from Conte who doesn’t really like Batshuayi to begin with. He read the game in completely the wrong manner. Willian is dead in the final third. 

I agree. I was both disappointed and confused by the switch, but my post was more about addressing the fact that decision making isn't as clear cut as people make it out. Batshuayi may be more of an outlet than Willian, but for a CF his hold up play is atrocious. You can play Bats and hope for the best, or you can try a different plan.  The manager takes most of the responsibility for today's result, but this isn't the end and I hope people don't express some of the nasty sentiments as they have done in previous losses under Conte. Today was a poor result, but this club can turn it around.

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Outplayed and embarrassed at home in front of the world. So many players looked completely out of their depth and the same goes for Conte too. He was utterly clueless and worst of all, he didn't even try to stop the bleeding.

Honestly, I'm glad the club were reminded of the reality of this team and how far off we are from the elite European clubs. Change only comes when things like this happen. If we won 1-0 we'd hear bullshit about another classic smash and grab which only sets us up for failure in the long run.

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I think it's as simple as bench options.

If you have a solid 2nd-striker to bring off the bench, you feel no worry in putting him on early in the game as Morata comes off. But Bats has shown he isn't full-game in the Premier League material. He's an out of depth option for this. So we reshuffled into a lineup that i'm unsure if we've used before, because there's no other striker in our whole damn squad that the coach likes, and that new lineup was with another out of depth player coming into the conversation, Willian. 

I think only 1 of the bench options was good enough to be in our squad, if we want to be better than we've been, and that's Zappacosta. 

Le board.

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11 minutes ago, Leif said:

I think it's as simple as bench options.

If you have a solid 2nd-striker to bring off the bench, you feel no worry in putting him on early in the game as Morata comes off. But Bats has shown he isn't full-game in the Premier League material. He's an out of depth option for this. So we reshuffled into a lineup that i'm unsure if we've used before, because there's no other striker in our whole damn squad that the coach likes, and that new lineup was with another out of depth player coming into the conversation, Willian. 

I think only 1 of the bench options was good enough to be in our squad, if we want to be better than we've been, and that's Zappacosta. 

Le board.

It's not that simple.

You're completely ignoring the fact that one team played like they have been coached to death and have had a style of play ingrained into them. Meanwhile, the other team looked like a bunch of semi-pros with no idea how to even retain possession for more than 5 passes.

It's a lot deeper than just bench options.

Batshuayi is genuinely terrible by the way. He's a midtable player at best and shouldn't be anywhere near a top European club. I'm not going to kill Conte for not bringing him on, as bad as Willian is I can at least understand the reasoning behind it. It's just a shame Willian produced yet another tragic performance.

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8 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

It's a shame about Llorente, would have been perfect backup for Morata.

Now we're stuck with Michy, who is a decent player but he seems to care more about Twitter than actually improving himself. 

Gotta wonder what Conte makes of Batshuayi's Twitter shenanigans.

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The only thing I'm worried atm with him, is that he show stubbornness early into the season, like last year.

It took a couple of bad results for him to change things up, so I hope this time around he'll react faster.

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Listen, I think the worst thing about modern football is primarily the lack of respect that fans show towards opposition, making them into missing certain aspects about the football game and think their team is entitled to every trophy.

I'm reading all the comments and once again I feel exactly the same like I was feeling after the Arsenal match when everybody thought Arsenal would come here and get thumped.

Fans (all over the world) nowadays can't see past their own teams and this is wrong. 

We've played Atletico twice under Mourinho and both times it was a complete shitshow. Remember Diego Simeone at that point - he was definitely the most defensive manager in this whole world, but it did not matter for Mourinho. We went to Madrid, played with 5 at the back and had no chance to score and then we came back to London and Mourinho played with six defenders! (Cole, JT, Cahill, Ivanovic, David Luiz, Azpilicueta) and got humiliated by Atletico.

Now a few days back we go to Madrid again and completely dominate Atletico. So Conte has showed us that this team can play attacking football and will do so.

But my point is and this is what I want to emphasize - as much as all the fans hate him and judge him by his last (trophyless) season, Pep Guardiola is a once in a generation manager. 

Is he better than Conte when it comes to defending drills? I don't think so. But is he better in the other half of the pitch? Definitely. And for me the best attacking manager in the world. 

This guy has had a difficult first season, but now he's built a squad to play his way. Chelsea do not have the personnel to beat a Guardiola team at his own game, this is why Conte has chosen to sit back and try to hit on the counter.

This is what Guardiola does - presses high up the pitch, plays with a lot of energy, two passes tops, lots of interchanging and freedom in the last third.

We simply do not have technically gifted players like City does, nor a similar playing style. For me it is no shame we have lost against this City side.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, petre.ispirescu said:

Listen, I think the worst thing about modern football is primarily the lack of respect that fans show towards opposition, making them into missing certain aspects about the football game.

I'm reading all the comments and once again I feel exactly the same like I was feeling after the Arsenal match when everybody thought Arsenal would come here and get thumped.

Fans (all over the world) nowadays can't see past their own teams and this is wrong. 

We've played Atletico twice under Mourinho and both times it was a complete shitshow. Remember Diego Simeone at that point - he was definitely the most defensive manager in this whole world, but it did not matter for Mourinho. We went to Madrid, played with 5 at the back and had no chance to score and then we came back to London and Mourinho played with six defenders! (Cole, JT, Cahill, Ivanovic, David Luiz, Azpilicueta) and got humiliated by Atletico.

Now a few days back we go to Madrid again and completely dominate Atletico. So Conte has showed us that this team can play attacking football and will do so.

But my point is and this is what I want to emphasize - as much as all the fans hate him and judge him by his last (trophyless) season, Pep Guardiola is a once in a generation manager. 

Is he better than Conte when it comes to defending drills? I don't think so. But is he better in the other half of the pitch? Definitely. And for me the best attacking manager in the world. 

This guy has had a difficult first season, but now he's built a squad to play his way. Chelsea do not have the personnel to beat a Guardiola team at his own game, this is why Conte has chosen to sit back and try to hit on the counter.

This is what Guardiola does - presses high up the pitch, plays with a lot of energy, two passes tops, lots of interchanging and freedom in the last third.

We simply do not have technically gifted players like City does, nor a similar playing style. For me it is no shame we have lost against this City side.

 

 

I think it's the fact that side isn't filled with elite players/world class players all over the pitch that it fools people into a false sense of security. Pep has them players working well and has improved players like Delph, Stones, Walker even. He knows their strengths and weaknesses and used them to the best of their ability. Delph being used where he was yesterday wasn't due to lack of options on City's part as they could have used one other, but it was deliberate from Pep because he knows Delph's strengths and trusts him to follow the tactics - the same with Walker. However, one positive to take away is even though they could have scored, our defending was top notch for the most part and City only scored through a well placed shot outside the box from KDB, so the positve is we can take away is the defence didn't crumble under any pressure from City despite being under some during the game. 

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For me Chelsea still has great chances of winning the PL. You have had a very difficult calender in this season's start compared to MU and City. Conte was clear in his analysis.

‘On this issue I have already spoken and to repeat the same opinion is not good. We don’t want to use it as an excuse. To play another massive game two days later you must consider the fatigue in the legs of your players, and it’s impossible to press box to box because after 30 minutes you have no energy.

‘It’s normal when you play three massive games in seven days you must consider this aspect but we needed to take the risk because Morata, for us, is a very important player.’

‘When you play against the type of team who likes to have possession, you have to consider two tactical aspects. You go very high, press and play with great intensity for the whole game, or you must be disciplined to close the space and exploit space in behind their defenders.

‘I think we have to look at ourselves and try to put everything into every game. We did that today. Damage or no damage, we have to go game by game, do our best and then we’ll see at the end of the season how we finish the league. When I see my players have given everything we must be pleased despite the bad result.

‘You have to consider that in seven games we’ve played Arsenal, Tottenham, Man City and Everton. Our start wasn’t so easy. I think we have the points we deserve.’

 

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2 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

Listen, I think the worst thing about modern football is primarily the lack of respect that fans show towards opposition, making them into missing certain aspects about the football game and think their team is entitled to every trophy.

I'm reading all the comments and once again I feel exactly the same like I was feeling after the Arsenal match when everybody thought Arsenal would come here and get thumped.

Fans (all over the world) nowadays can't see past their own teams and this is wrong. 

We've played Atletico twice under Mourinho and both times it was a complete shitshow. Remember Diego Simeone at that point - he was definitely the most defensive manager in this whole world, but it did not matter for Mourinho. We went to Madrid, played with 5 at the back and had no chance to score and then we came back to London and Mourinho played with six defenders! (Cole, JT, Cahill, Ivanovic, David Luiz, Azpilicueta) and got humiliated by Atletico.

Now a few days back we go to Madrid again and completely dominate Atletico. So Conte has showed us that this team can play attacking football and will do so.

But my point is and this is what I want to emphasize - as much as all the fans hate him and judge him by his last (trophyless) season, Pep Guardiola is a once in a generation manager. 

Is he better than Conte when it comes to defending drills? I don't think so. But is he better in the other half of the pitch? Definitely. And for me the best attacking manager in the world. 

This guy has had a difficult first season, but now he's built a squad to play his way. Chelsea do not have the personnel to beat a Guardiola team at his own game, this is why Conte has chosen to sit back and try to hit on the counter.

This is what Guardiola does - presses high up the pitch, plays with a lot of energy, two passes tops, lots of interchanging and freedom in the last third.

We simply do not have technically gifted players like City does, nor a similar playing style. For me it is no shame we have lost against this City side.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, petre.ispirescu said:

Spot on mate and one thing I would like to add is that people these days draw conclusions way too early in the season. You win two in a row, hooray we're going to win the league. You lose one, nah we're not good enough, need to rethink everything.

It's like they never learn and it's like this every single season.

Last season at this exact moment Chelsea was losing 0-3 at the Emirates and was trailing City by eight points IIRC. And by the way City was demolating everything in front of them just like they do now. I'm not saying it is surely going to happen the same thing (Chelsea to come from behind and City to start dropping points all of a sudden), maybe City won't even lose a single game this season. But can anybody predict the future? Especially in the EPL? Everything is possible in this league. 

And let's not forget Chelsea have definitely had the worst schedule so far. And on top of that, prior to yesterday's match, Chelsea have played Atletico in Madrid and were coming after an emotional win. I'm not trying to find excuses, no way, although I don't think it would be wrong to talk about the two days rest in between these two massive games.

I mean - with an International break coming up, surely this match could have been moved on Monday night, or at least Sunday night. But Saturday? After finishing the game in Madrid close to midnight on Wednesday?... Whereas Liverpool play on Tuesday night and get to play late on Sunday afternoon...

Look at Real Madrid now - they are currently seven points behind Barcelona. A side led by Messi that could win every match in that two horse league. But nobody is talking about the league being finished already and other crap like we've seen on this forum.

For me the worst thing about the defeat against City is not the result. Or anything related to this game. It's the fact that I saw a lot of United fans taking the piss, some of them saying "can we write Chelsea off now?".

No you can't you fucking bellends. You've played no decent team so far and had the easiest schedule a team could dream of. I hate Liverpool and Spurs with a passion, but my God how I'd wish they beat the shit out of United in the next rounds.

Spot on as usual mate, best poster on TC by a mile.

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39 minutes ago, petre.ispirescu said:

It's like they never learn and it's like this every single season.

Last season at this exact moment Chelsea was losing 0-3 at the Emirates and was trailing City by eight points IIRC. And by the way City was demolating everything in front of them just like they do now. I'm not saying it is surely going to happen the same thing (Chelsea to come from behind and City to start dropping points all of a sudden), maybe City won't even lose a single game this season. But can anybody predict the future? Especially in the EPL? Everything is possible in this league. 

Spot on. This post should be quoted every time we lose a game and get tons of overreactions. We have looked good this season and played well, then we get one bad result after the conditions are firmly stacked against us and all of a sudden we are piss poor and Conte is clueless. I predict that as we get a chunk of tough games aside in early season, we'll be cruising later and heaping tons of pressure on Manchester who will lose form eventually like they always do. I think we have what it takes to make a genuine push to retain the title.

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