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Massacre In Paris


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This may sound a stupid question but what the hell did they hope to achieve by killing innocent people? For all they knew they could, and maybe did kill Muslims as well as Christians and other nationalities from around the world. To me this is just like poking a lion in the ribs, because they will surely pay for this actrocity. France, America and England will retaliate and very soon.They will have turned the world against themselves. Already France has retaliated and this is only the start. And now the innocent refugees trying to get away from these murdering scum will all be looked at as potential terrorists. Lets just pray that they never get their hands on atomic weapons because that would mean the end of us all.

They (ISIS) need to be eradicated........and quickly.

See below the statement that ISIS put out after the Charlie Hebdo attack**:

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The aim is to destroy the so called "grey zone". The zone where European and Muslim cultures meet. The zone where Muslims can live peacefully in Europe. They want fear, knee-jerk reactions and illogical responses. They are betting on the reaction of Europeans to drive away the Muslims in Europe straight into their hands. They wish to destroy moderation and common ground so that everyone everywhere is either "with the crusaders or...with Islam".

EDIT: I know it's hard to see from afar, but ISIS is on the down. It was never going to be a sustainable movement. Their numbers are going down, they are losing territories in both Syria and Iraq and they are going low on new recruits. THAT is the main reason for the attack. First to preserve the incredible inflated figure of their assumed power, to reinstate the fear that helped them achieve all of that they achieved which was starting to diminish, to stop more refugees from being accepted into Europe which they have been very vocally expressed against because if they manage to keep those people in the region and especially in their own territories they are at worst shields and at best possible recruits and finally to force Muslims in Europe to the extremes to turn them into more possible recruits. THAT is the aim of the attack.

**Should point out that this wasn't a statement they actually put out but rather a piece in the edition after the Charlie Hebdo attacks of their own magazine.

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As long as people fail to understand the reasons behind the way ISIS, Al-Qaeda, etc. works, "The West" will never come close to "winning" (in this case, winning would be being safe).

Going by the fact the worst of all has already happened (which is the very first 91 invasion and then 2003 to escalate everything). There are still many who cant see the bigger picture.

As long as people are dumb enough to cultivate pre-made Internet solutions such as "nuke them", "close the borders", etc. ISIS will be laughing all they long because this is exactly what they want. The more undeserved hatred innocent and peaceful Muslims get, the greater the poll of recruits will be and so will the support of the general population.

Do you guys seriously think they attacked Paris because France is a "free" country? Because they somehow are jealous of the superb miserable life 90% of you live? GROW UP! It is a mere answer to the wrongdoings YOUR goverment does. It is completely, 100% unjustified, but it is still nothing more then a reaction. Nordic Countries are free, Canada is free, most of South America is free, etc. Why arent they targets? Well, I will tell you, it is because they didnt go messing up someone elses business. They didnt need that pathetic sense of "peaceful crusade" some nations have.

You disagree with me? Ok. Lets invert roles. ISIS invades England and determines your political system is corrupt and favours a vast minority so they redo it and put new people in charge (people who will not beneift UKs population but ISIS own personal system of course). Then they will close all clubs and pubs with alcohol consumption because this is part of our culture and not theirs (so its obviously a bad thing right?). Lots of people will die in the process of course, so then people start creating resistance groups in the UK . They do a couple successful attacks and then the UK citizens grow tired of a never ending conflict and decide to flee the Island in masses. However, they get turned down because some idiots on the internet decided it was best to "close the borders" for safety. In the end, refugees and general population put against each other while all they want is the same fucking thing, which is the ability to live their lives in peace.

Now, 2 comlon things that will most probably be replied so I will already answer.1) "People get shocked because France isnt at war and bla bla bla". Really? Then why were they the ones leading the offensives on Arabic Spring and now in Syria? This is war in my point of view. The only reason you are not being constantly attacked is because your oponent doesnt have access to modern weaponry. So if your country has or had troops in the Middle East in the last decade and plan to follow France in the near future, sorry to inform you but you are at war. 2) "But closing the borders will help against attacks". Come on, how smart are you? Do you honestly think that rejecting refugees will make it any harder for terrorist groups to infiltrate people into Europe? They will get people inside whether the borders are closed or not. So in the end you will be hurting the innocent and not doing much (if at all) against those who really matter.

Great post however I have a question.

Because of USA, Israel, UK France and such does it gives the Radical Islamic the right to slaughter Christians?

I can understand your point against terrorism against France.

But why Christians? Why slaughter Christians in Egypt, Iraq and such?

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Anonymous are literally keyboard warriors. Those bearded ISIS cavemen communicate by smoke, howling, sniffing each other's butts and beating their chest. Pretty difficult to hack.

Mate they give out monthly magazines in multiple languages and usually try to get European recruits through the internet. So yeah, if these keyboard warriors can hack that and ruin it for some time then I think its good.

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hahahahha really man? Do you think the goverment of France did this themselves so they can bomb Syria?

Talking about ignorance...

Well can be the same what USA did themselves.Do you know what secret service France have? One the strongest. Do you still believe that they(killers) could walk so easly how they did last night in 7 different places? Where are the names of them? Who support them? How long they prepared the attack?

Still no answer from France or world.

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Well can be the same what USA did themselves.Do you know what secret service France have? One the strongest. Do you still believe that they(killers) could walk so easly how they did last night in 7 different places? Where are the names of them? Who support them? How long they prepared the attack?

Still no answer from France or world.

What are you talking about? We are getting plenty of information from France and their police. Of course France has one of the strongest secret service since they are one of the biggest and most powerful nations in the world. France, Belgium and the whole of Europe is a huge place yes and its near impossible to keep track of everyone and all their plans. We are getting names as well and we all know ISIS supported them.

You gotta go check out the news outlets because we are getting plenty of answers and names. At least real conspiracy theorists don't make up facts, they bend them, but you are just making up facts here.

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Well can be the same what USA did themselves.Do you know what secret service France have? One the strongest. Do you still believe that they(killers) could walk so easly how they did last night in 7 different places? Where are the names of them? Who support them? How long they prepared the attack?

Still no answer from France or world.

They kinda came from Belgium, we have the shittiest secret service in the world tbh

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I have been keeping up with this topic, and seen a lot of really good posts on why this has happened and where to go from here. In saying that, I am really trying to educate myself on this, but having a little trouble piecing everything together. Different posts have given different views and only parts of it. I know that each person's opinion is different and a little biased, but just wondering how everyone sees it.

I have been told by friends that ISIS members started from people who al-Queda did not want because they were too extreme for them. Also friends have told me a big cause of it was that we (the US) pulled too many troops out early (they blamed this on Obama). Now truthfully this friend is a Republican, meaning they are probably biased with it comes to it. I figured it would be best to split this in to two parts. The how it happened and where to go.

1) So can someone or even a few people go through how/why ISIS came to be? How, if any, was Al-Queda related? How did the USA or any other countries invading Iraq and other areas impact it? Also, how has it gotten this far?

2) How do you think we can go from here? I don't think bombing them until everyone is dead will work, so where to go? And why doesn't bombing work that well?

By the way, I am in no way one of those naive Americans that feels entitled to everything, and think that the US is the best in everything. It is super obvious we are not. So you can feel free to be honest/harsh on your assessment of the US.

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I have been keeping up with this topic, and seen a lot of really good posts on why this has happened and where to go from here. In saying that, I am really trying to educate myself on this, but having a little trouble piecing everything together. Different posts have given different views and only parts of it. I know that each person's opinion is different and a little biased, but just wondering how everyone sees it.

I have been told by friends that ISIS members started from people who al-Queda did not want because they were too extreme for them. Also friends have told me a big cause of it was that we (the US) pulled too many troops out early (they blamed this on Obama). Now truthfully this friend is a Republican, meaning they are probably biased with it comes to it. I figured it would be best to split this in to two parts. The how it happened and where to go.

1) So can someone or even a few people go through how/why ISIS came to be? How, if any, was Al-Queda related? How did the USA or any other countries invading Iraq and other areas impact it? Also, how has it gotten this far?

2) How do you think we can go from here? I don't think bombing them until everyone is dead will work, so where to go? And why doesn't bombing work that well?

By the way, I am in no way one of those naive Americans that feels entitled to everything, and think that the US is the best in everything. It is super obvious we are not. So you can feel free to be honest/harsh on your assessment of the US.

Going to try to be as brief and objective here as possible but those are very complicated questions you ask.

1) a) ISIS as a group actually came to be first in Iraq after the invasion (actually started inside US prisons in Iraq) and worked pretty much under Al Qaeda. But they then split from them in Syria in 2013/14 as a result of a political disagreement between Al Qaeda affiliates inside Syria and on the larger scale a political disagreement between Turkey and Qatar on one side who backed ISIS and USA and KSA on the other who backed Al Qaeda. That said, there are genuine 'religious' disputes between ISIS and Al Qaeda, mainly about killing Muslim civilians, dealing with hostages, execution methods...etc.

Regarding the so called 'caliphate', the idea predates ISIS in Syria. In fact even when the rebels in Syria were still being marketed as 'moderate freedom fighters' back in 2012, the idea of an Islamic Caliphate was known to US and allies in region and even encouraged as a means to further weaken the regime. Watch minutes 8 to 12 of this interview with the director of defense intelligence agency at the time saying exactly that:

https://youtu.be/SG3j8OYKgn4?t=8m2s

(in fact watch the whole thing if you have time as it will explain a lot of things you are asking about)

1) b ) The invasion of Iraq (and the sanctions before which were equally devastating but are forgotten by everyone) basically destroyed the society allowing for the rise of such extremist militias. Then the subsequent policies fueled the sectarian Sunni-Shia conflict that is now tearing the whole region apart because the US gave power almost conclusively to Shias (who were oppressed under Saddam) and got rid of most Sunnis in power (that's why most ISIS leaders now are former Iraqi army generals).

Then the invasion (and destruction) of Libya and the arms and funds that were thrown there mostly for religious extremist groups largely increased the numbers of Jihadi in the region (as well as whole of Africa for that matter) and their arming and battle readiness.

It has gotten this far because the US and allies had already destroyed most local forces that can actually fight religious extremism, namely Iraqi and Syrian regimes/armies, and because US and allies were actively supporting, funding and arming those extremists at the start of the Syrian 'revolution' and advertising them as freedom fighters, and because of the billions spent by KSA to radicalize Muslims in the region, and because of the billions spent by Iran to fund and arm extremists in Iraq after the invasion, and because both gulf states and Iran are fueling the Shia-Sunni conflict with inflammatory rhetoric on a daily basis as well as all sorts of other social, political, economic, military and even meteorological factors!

2) I've wrote something in this thread that relates to that:

Well to begin with, so called counter terrorism laws historically don't work. They just don't. On the contrary they tend to alienate people more and create more terrorists. To give just a couple of examples, take the NSA mass surveillance program which is supposedly protecting the country from terrorism, there was an investigation after the Snowden leaks and it turns out that throughout its entire history it managed to stop ONE 'terrorist': a man was wiring 2800 dollars to a suspicious group or something. That's why the government is intruding on the rights and privacy of all Americans. A more specific example would be the Charlie Hebdo attackers who were being monitored by the French authorities and still managed to get weapons and rocket launchers. In some cases, as is the case with bulk data collection, it actually hinders the ability of stopping actual attacks as people working in that field will tell you themselves. And that's actually no surprise as most of those laws are not aimed at stopping terrorist attacks but at controlling the population.

So what to actually do about ISIS attacks? Well let's look at what created the environment for the monstrosity that is ISIS to be born. No one with any knowledge of the politics of the region will argue against the fact that the main factor was doubtlessly the invasion of Iraq which hit an already very fragile society after years of genocidal sanctions with a sledge hammer and created a power vacuum that, along with the 'divide and rule' strategy used by the US army after the invasion, fueled the sectarian war that is now ripping the region into shreds. Then, because it obviously worked so well in Iraq, the same divide and rule tactics were used in Syria by US and regional allies by inflating the sunni-shia conflict and the perceived 'Iranian threat' to attempt to weaken the regime. Naturally extremists were always going to rise to the surface as result. Then of course you have gulf states and Turkey actively bringing the religious extremists to Syria then arming and funding them. Most still have connections with ISIS as was shown when the Turkish army walked straight through ISIS territory to retrieve a historic tomb from Syria and coordinated the recent joint attack of ISIS and 'moderate' rebels on the main Syrian regime supply rout in Aleppo. Then of course you have the fiasco that is invasion of Lybia from where A LOT of the ISIS and AQ fighters and weapons came into Syria. In fact the weapons given to the Lybian 'rebels' have spilled all over Africa and particularly Mali, Nigeria and Burkina and are the main reason behind the wave of terrorism in the continent.

But that all is already done, so what can help decrease the threat of ISIS now? It's actually simpler than you might think. ISIS to this day is still getting funding and arms from known sources in the gulf. Stop that. Stop the money they are getting from oil which EVERYONE is buying. Support popular local forces fighting against ISIS. ISIS's (and Al Qaeda's for that matter) violent extremists version of Islam is an offshoot from the Saudi Wahabi doctrine which the KSA spends billions on to sponsor and promote and create mosques for throughout the world. Stop that. Stop military tactics that are known to create more terrorists just because they generate revenue for powerful corporates such as drone strikes. Stop the flow of foreign fighters into Syria and Iraq, mainly from Jordan and Turkey. In Europe, stop scaring people into alienating and discriminating against Muslims just to get more votes in elections. Those are all just for starters and everyone knows them all. But there is no will to actually do any of that because EVERYONE benefits from ISIS.

In the future and going forward to avoid more Al Qaedas and ISISes, get your governments to stop invading countries and destroying regions for the benefit of oil and weapons companies. Stop pretending that the destruction of one region does not affect all of the world and realize that the entire planet is closely linked together. Abolish the believe that you can commit great violence anywhere on earth with no repercussions. Stop acting like all the resources on earth are theirs for the taking. And finally stop fueling and using religious extremism to do their dirty work like in Afghanistan, Libya and Syria, because they evidently can't control them. Actually, just stop interfering in other countries all together. That will probably do.

It's really no surprise at all the bombing doesn't work. Bombs kill people, and not just the intended people. In fact, statistically speaking, killing the intended people is usually the exception. So bombs tend to create more extremists faster than they can kill them. Because think about it, if you're a civilian going about your life and a bomb kills your father or son, regardless of what you think of ISIS or Al Qaeda, you are very likely to join them just for revenge for the death of your loved ones. Especially when those bombs come from 'the greatest devil'.

I will add that the only military solution that might work is to provide a united front that includes EVERYONE against ISIS and Al Qaeda. No alternative agendas, no regional and international gains, no liberators and liberated, no religious divides, a multi-cultural, multi-national, multi-religious...etc. front that includes everyone as equals because we're all in this mess as a world together. THAT is the quickest way to defeat the religious extremists.

But as I mentioned in the post above, first cut their funding and arming, quit sending weapons that are bound to end u quit using them for political gains, quit giving them what they want, and quit validating their rhetoric. Oh, and selling 1.29 billion dollars in arms to KSA is NOT helping...

Hope that gives you at least one perspective on the questions you asked.

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