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The Mourinho Thread


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I've seen the question of whether Chelsea fans would prefer to win the Premier League or the Champions League many times on various forums and have also heard it discussed during radio phone ins. To my recollection, on every single occasion, a comfortable majority has voted for the Premier League. The domestic title is certainly my preference, and the gap is huge. If we'd won the league 5 times in a row, I'd still take a 6th win over another Champions League. Of course I'd prefer both but if it has to be just one then Premier League every time.

I do agree with you though about the CL being a great competition and about the fact that no one has retained it being evidence of how tough it is to win. I sometimes hear people of my generation yearning for the good old days of the Champion's cup. In my opinion their memory is playing tricks on them. For me, the old 4-and-a-half round*, straight knock-out, Champions Cup, with its entry padded out by the cannon-fodder domestic champions of weaker nations, was a Mickey Mouse competition compared to the Champion's League.

In fact those that would like to bring back the knock out version have forgotten that, back then, it was a commonly held view that the old UEFA Cup was a harder competition to win because of its greater strength in depth of top quality sides. The early rounds of the Champions Cup were a joke. Although people often forget now, the draw was seeded so the good teams often battered their opponents in the first two rounds and the competition didn't really get going till the quarter-finals (3rd round) in March. On only twice during their dominant spell did Liverpool draw good sides before Christmas. They went out on both occasions.

* I say 4-and-a-half rounds because, on the luck of the draw, some of the better clubs would get a bye into the second round, as Liverpool did in one of the seasons when they won the competition.

They prefer PL because it is more attainable. People with low standard will say PL. but you don't see Barca or Real fans saying the same thing, because their standard is higher. CL is the biggest club competition in the world, best of the best.

The PL has incredibly declined over the years, it is not a great league anymore. We were the runaway Champion, and we got outplayed by a 10 men PSG side. Not to mention they had a lot of injuries heading into the tie. PSG is not the standard of European football, they got demolished by Barca. It was really shocking how easy it was for Barca, it was really a reality check for me. That we are going comfortably win the league, but we are far from being one of the best in Europe.

I am kinda slowly but surely realizing that we have lost our ambition to be elite. First with our summer transfer window, now sticking with Mou in spite of being 16 with almost 1/3 of football being played.

Btw why isn't it surprising Mou hardcore defendants are the one saying PL>CL.

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They prefer PL because it is more attainable. People with low standard will say PL. but you don't see Barca or Real fans saying the same thing, because their standard is higher. CL is the biggest club competition in the world, best of the best.

The PL has incredibly declined over the years, it is not a great league anymore. We were the runaway Champion, and we got outplayed by a 10 men PSG side. Not to mention they had a lot of injuries heading into the tie. PSG is not the standard of European football, they got demolished by Barca. It was really shocking how easy it was for Barca, it was really a reality check for me. That we are going comfortably win the league, but we are far from being one of the best in Europe.

I am kinda slowly but surely realizing that we have lost our ambition to be elite. First with our summer transfer window, now sticking with Mou in spite of being 16 with almost 1/3 of football being played.

Btw why isn't it surprising Mou hardcore defendants are the one saying PL>CL.

isn't it only the quality, of the top PL teams that has declined? the midtable and lower teams are better than ever, and all can bring in good players.

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They prefer PL because it is more attainable. People with low standard will say PL.

Btw why isn't it surprising Mou hardcore defendants are the one saying PL>CL.

Incredibly wrong on all 3 counts especially the last one because it doesn't matter who the manager is and it might have escaped your attention but hardly anyone is saying the PL is greater than the CL....just saying that to most fans its the one to win year in year out and then worry about a CL.

And I also bet that if we were near or at the top of the PL this season......we wouldn't even be having this debate at this present time of the season

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Btw why isn't it surprising Mou hardcore defendants are the one saying PL>CL.

Indeed, because Mourinho has been awful in the CL throughout his carrer :lol:

Normally taking the Premier League over the Champions league, but it's a cycle, our previous one felt so special because of all we had to endure in the decade before to get it.

But you can't keep winning the league every year and pretend you don't want to win the CL, that's ridiculous, I just believe the club owes it more to be dominant ( or at least there up top ) in the league every year than in the sem finals of the CL, not because getting to the semis is harder, but because it depends on a lot of random stuff in addition to your performance per se.

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12 year of continuous success and you guys are bashing him and calling him a fraud after 12 games in the league? Man just save yourself.

FFS, no matter how many times you mention all the problems, you guys will just keep on saying "oh, you want him out after one-two-three (the number keeps rising btw.) bad months, but he's the best coach ever, he said so himself". :doh:

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They prefer PL because it is more attainable. People with low standard will say PL. but you don't see Barca or Real fans saying the same thing, because their standard is higher. CL is the biggest club competition in the world, best of the best.

The PL has incredibly declined over the years, it is not a great league anymore. We were the runaway Champion, and we got outplayed by a 10 men PSG side. Not to mention they had a lot of injuries heading into the tie. PSG is not the standard of European football, they got demolished by Barca. It was really shocking how easy it was for Barca, it was really a reality check for me. That we are going comfortably win the league, but we are far from being one of the best in Europe.

I am kinda slowly but surely realizing that we have lost our ambition to be elite. First with our summer transfer window, now sticking with Mou in spite of being 16 with almost 1/3 of football being played.

Btw why isn't it surprising Mou hardcore defendants are the one saying PL>CL.

I'm not a 'Mou hardcore defendant' but I do back our manager. However I maintain CL>PL,

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I want to know TC members opinion on the following

1) do you accept the assertion that Chelsea under Jose are always too cautious when facing any team as good or better than Tottenham!?

2) do you thhink Jose will ever change?

3) do you not mind Chelsea being so passive all the time in big games ? do you want that to be part of chelsea's identity?

1) Not always, but quite often.

2) No.

3) I do mind, you can't win anything by being passive. No I don't want it to be part of the itentity, it's for losers. And by passive I don't mean cautious or defensive, I mean lazy.

We also get gloryhunters for winning the league.

A gloryhunter is a gloryhunter. Whether he/she's a local, non-local or a living in a different country. I can easily say Chelsea's real fans are the fans living in South London (which isn't true, but you should get the point).

In fact IMO it's more embarrassing for someone who lives in London, supporting Manchester United or Man City (unless they moved to London but was a Manchester boy). I live in London and when I was in high school, there were a lot of United fans.

You can't escape gloryhunters.

I think after this season there will be no gloryhunters left. Being bottom of the barrel in some sense cleanses the club.

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isn't it only the quality, of the top PL teams that has declined? the midtable and lower teams are better than ever, and all can bring in good players.

Buying better players does not always equal better product on the pitch.

What good is a Ferrari if you use it like a fiat?

I can't say if the mid table have gotten better, the drop off at the top gives a perception it has. It is not reality.

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Buying better players does not always equal better product on the pitch.

What good is a Ferrari if you use it like a fiat?

I can't say if the mid table have gotten better, the drop off at the top gives a perception it has. It is not reality.

I don't think the likes of Payet, Cabaye, Cedric, Van Diyk and so on are currently used as a fiat.

They dominate and and their teams are playing to their strengths.

For me the so called small teams have stepped up big time and no other league has that amount of competition in their league!

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And you've done it again. Impressive.

It's quite amusing how you can easily disregard and ignore any argument against Mou. We are NOT talking about 12 bad games, we are talking about our shit and cowardly football, empty promises to promote youth (Loftus Cheek to get a run of games, does anyone remember that?), awful squad management etc.

But still, your next post is going to be like:

TH3J4wU.jpg

Lets use simple maths.

Which football manager has won more cups than Mourinho during the last 12 years?

Which manager tested himself in the 3 big countries?

Name me one, please!

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Lets use simple maths.

Which football manager has won more cups than Mourinho during the last 12 years?

Which manager tested himself in the 3 big countries?

Name me one, please!

I think this is distorted because of the teams he managed. They had money to spent.

Look at crappy Mancini how he did with the Inter before Mourinho got there and then City.

Now Pellegrini that never won much of anything win trophies with City.

You need to look at context as well my friend.

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They prefer PL because it is more attainable. People with low standard will say PL. but you don't see Barca or Real fans saying the same thing, because their standard is higher. CL is the biggest club competition in the world, best of the best.

The PL has incredibly declined over the years, it is not a great league anymore. We were the runaway Champion, and we got outplayed by a 10 men PSG side. Not to mention they had a lot of injuries heading into the tie. PSG is not the standard of European football, they got demolished by Barca. It was really shocking how easy it was for Barca, it was really a reality check for me. That we are going comfortably win the league, but we are far from being one of the best in Europe.

I am kinda slowly but surely realizing that we have lost our ambition to be elite. First with our summer transfer window, now sticking with Mou in spite of being 16 with almost 1/3 of football being played.

Btw why isn't it surprising Mou hardcore defendants are the one saying PL>CL.

I can't speak for they but in my case it has nothing to do with which competition is more attainable. This is a view I've held since 1968 and for most of that period neither trophy was attainable.

I can accept the argument that the CL is possibly the best competition but the biggest? How do you measure biggest? Perhaps your personal definition of biggest would be such that the CL comes out on top, but no doubt there are other definitions too.

It's clear that the PL has declined and is punching well below its weight. For too long clubs, particularly our own, have allowed themselves to be mugged off paying the highest average fees and highest average wages, for players who are not, on average, of the highest quality. We need to turn that around but it is tough because the super clubs on the continent can compete with ours financially and also benefit form the cultural factors we are all aware of.

We were indeed outplayed by PSG but don't forget that we were also outplayed by many sides domestically. Paris managaed to get the result they deserved because they converted from set pieces. Many of the teams that outperformed us domestically didn't get the same breaks.

I don't see how you can claim that we've lost our ambition. It's clear that we have not pursued them very effectively but I see no justification for your claim. Who knows what factors were considered at board level over the summer and which resulted in the squad building policy that was applied? Certainly not you or me. My own guess is that the club forgot who our manager is and perhaps believed that our squad was better than in fact it is.

In my opinion the slump we are suffering now is long overdue. Throughout Roman's time we have tended to recruit players with qualities rather than players of quality. It is why for almost all of that time our side has been clunky and has never established a reputation for high quality football. Until we fix that it won't matter who the manger is. Until we are cured of watching Suarez but deciding to buy Torres instead, of being offered Aguero but deciding to pass, of thinking it helps our club to extend Ramires's* contract we will be stuck with trying to win in the only way such a group can win. Even then but for Jose and Eden dragging this sub-standard group over the line, we would never have won the league last season.

*Unless of course this was done to secure a transfer fee.

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I want to know TC members opinion on the following

1) do you accept the assertion that Chelsea under Jose are always too cautious when facing any team as good or better than Tottenham!?

2) do you thhink Jose will ever change?

3) do you not mind Chelsea being so passive all the time in big games ? do you want that to be part of chelsea's identity?

1) If you're asking from the start of the game then YES, Jose always treats big game as the game of chess and try this to become as unwatchable, dire and stalemate as possible. That game against Atletico in 13-14 season at Calderon with 0-0 was the dullest game in the CL I have ever seen. Yet that was probably perfect game for Jose or almost perfect if we could nick one goal away from one of the few corners/freekicks.

2) If he will be kicked out of the club, then rejected by few big clubs who don't want his style of play at their clubs and takes sabbatical to rethink his old tactics then YES. I can't think of any other reason why would he change.

3) NO, never. I hate when we're in submission. I don't care about result as I'm too frustrated to watch this (unless it's CL semi or final). I never demand that we control the ball etc. but when we're playing purely on the counter I like to see that we're pressing and attack with numbers.

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