Defending

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Well its all in title.

We have seen some terrible defending lately. From individual tackles to backing off to shit marking. Not just defenders, but also from both central midfielders.

The man marking was absolutely disastrous in Bradford game (as far as I saw from highlights). But same goes for Liverpool game, Tottenham game. Basicaly this year, our defense reached new low and we are truly performing badly in this aspect. Is it because we are tired? We had one of best defences last year, with practicaly same players. But a bit more open play and suddenly no one knows how to defend anymore. Terry was great for big part of season, so was Azpi, while Cahill and Iva had some big brainfarts through whole season. But how come everyone become so bang average in recent weeks, including Matic, Azpi and Terry.

What is clear is that Mou was known for great positioning of defense. So is it the players that dont know how to follow his instructions (i.e. dont know where to stand, mark, run, how to block attack) or is it Mou fault for picking wrong tactical approach?

One thing I noticed is that we were even completely exposed against Pool, despite parking the bus. So is this system and players simply not working anymore? Covering up for each other is pathetic too. If Matic (or Terry, Cahill, Azpi,...) fucks up, no one will try to fix his mistake. Everyone just watching opponent run through and take a pop at goal.

Should we buy new defenders? Change the formation and play more defensive (again)?

I think CB or two will be absolutely crucial if we want to achieve bigger things. Current defenders are bad when exposed and have to defend individualy, while going back to bus parking isnt an option for me anymore. Not with such promising talents in attack. Full backs arent convincing either. Azpi yes, but if he will be our permament LB, then we definately need another RB in summer.

Discuss

[Myself 793]

You say we've been defending poorly but can only name 3 games which we actually were defending poorly (and you didn't even watch 1 of the 3) so I think its still to early to judge. I think the key to being more defensively stable is dropping Ivanovic actually

[BlueLion. 21,491]

You play attacking football, you have a shit defence. It really is that simple. There is no need to over-analyse defensive mistakes. If you want to play possession football you play with a higher defensive "block" which has to be able to cope with the constant threat of over exposure. When all of our natural width comes from our full-backs, it leaves massive gaps to be exploited by teams with a microcosm of pace. We're just going to have to either a, deal with it; or b, return to playing shit football.

[Tomo 21,681]

Im sure Mourinho is looking for a CB, but at the same time isn't going to panic and get any player.

Look at when he came back, he could have looked at our CM and ST issues, panicked and signed Capoue, Paulinho and Soldado instead he waited and we have Matic, Cesc and Costa.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

That's because along the back line there was very little experience and nearly no confidence in Cahill.

Terry should have been playing for that reason alone. That and the fact that a) we have nobody of the build/role of Matic to use instead, b ) when Mikel came off we were playing with 2 attacking CDMs, not one sitting one on the Matic role.

Matic is crucial because he galvanises he midfield. Without him,the back 4 corrode. When Bradford began to attack, the nature of our playing CDMs meant they offered little in defence. Combined with the inexperienced back line, we were asking for it really.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

You say we've been defending poorly but can only name 3 games which we actually were defending poorly (and you didn't even watch 1 of the 3) so I think its still to early to judge. I think the key to being more defensively stable is dropping Ivanovic actually

Well I think its been more than three games, including Sunderland, Newcastle away and even Newcastle home, we werent exactly solid as we used to be.

You play attacking football, you have a shit defence. It really is that simple. There is no need to over-analyse defensive mistakes. If you want to play possession football you play with a higher defensive "block" which has to be able to cope with the constant threat of over exposure. When all of our natural width comes from our full-backs, it leaves massive gaps to be exploited by teams with a microcosm of pace. We're just going to have to either a, deal with it; or b, return to playing shit football.

True that, but in some games we keep it clean, in other, we play like wreck in defense. And it should not be happening because we have experienced players there who shouldnt be as inconsistent.

And if you ask me honestly, Mourinho and nice possesion football wont get along. He aint attacking mastermind that could setup our attack in way that we will score 5 goals per game and win, regardless if we concede 3 or 4. What our current system looks like is that we try to attack and keep possesion, but when opponent press us, we cant do anything in attack. And at same time, our defense gets exposed. Even if we play defensive, like vs Liverpool. I prefer more attacking football, but it feels like we will stuck somewhere between. Unless Mou will be given few years to completely overhaul this team, but its obvious he will be sacked sooner or later if he wont bring trophy (not that I want him sacked or anything).

I know we never played nice football, but at least we got results (most of time). Now we have issues against small games, big games, away games, rotation. It doesnt help either that Mou wants to play ''atractive football'' and brings players for such game in Cesc, Costa etc, but at same time goes extremely defensive in many games still. It makes no point. Either do one or other. Its good to have plan A and plan B, but going from one extreme to another is bad. Parking bus with fancy players wont work and I bet on that. And the problem is that if we play defensive, our attack isnt improving on cohesion, while playing offensive, our defense has to completely adjust and obviously, we play like shit in defense then because no one is used to be that exposed.

Yeah its not exactly every game, but becoming more and more often. I still didnt overcome the fact that we were leading against City, United, Tottenham, Liverpool and not win in any of those games in the end, considering we played better last season and should improve this term, but thats not the case against big teams so far.

[The Chels 2,502]

That compactness though. Second pic is from when we were actually parking the bus and had 10 behind the ball lol.

One of the biggest factors responsible for our poor defending IMO is our disjointed pressing, which has been a problem since Jose's return - I remember us using it in the 2-0 defeat to City last year. Players often do not press in tandem, apparently having no clearly defined pressing triggers. When we do press the whole team doesn't shift across (or up) the pitch very well to accomodate for the press (second pic) and this makes it local pressing only which is much easier for the opposition to overcome. Our defensive transitions once the press is overcome also tends to be rather poor as we don't get enough men behind the ball quickly enough. Disjointed pressing ultimately leaves big gaps for the rest of the players to cover and for the opposition to exploit (first pic), leaving us very vulnerable. It should be noted that against City this season we decided not to press at all which meant we had no attacking threat and were thus pinned back into our box and fortunate not to concede before we did. Improved pressing is the answer rather than not pressing.

[Rom2013 446]

That compactness though. Second pic is from when we were actually parking the bus and had 10 behind the ball lol.

One of the biggest factors responsible for our poor defending IMO is our disjointed pressing, which has been a problem since Jose's return - I remember us using it in the 2-0 defeat to City last year. Players often do not press in tandem, apparently having no clearly defined pressing triggers. When we do press the whole team doesn't shift across (or up) the pitch very well to accomodate for the press (second pic) and this makes it local pressing only which is much easier for the opposition to overcome. Our defensive transitions once the press is overcome also tends to be rather poor as we don't get enough men behind the ball quickly enough. Disjointed pressing ultimately leaves big gaps for the rest of the players to cover and for the opposition to exploit (first pic), leaving us very vulnerable. It should be noted that against City this season we decided not to press at all which meant we had no attacking threat and were thus pinned back into our box and fortunate not to concede before we did. Improved pressing is the answer rather than not pressing.

It's really cool when we look at static images and make conclusions... We can do it with all the teams in the world. Pick one team in a specific game. Anyone can find that everywhere.

[The Chels 2,502]

It's really cool to watch static images and make conclusions... We can do it with all the teams in the world. Pick one team in a specific game. Anyone can find that everywhere.

You can see the issues when watching the game live. The images are just there for a visual aid. Ok I'd like you to find Atletico Madrid having huge gaps in their midfield and no clear defensive structure when they're parking the bus with no intent of attacking like we were against Pool. And can you tell me if they'd have conceded the goal we did to Liverpool with a huge gap between the CMs?

[Rom2013 446]

You can see the issues when watching the game live. The images are just there for a visual aid. Ok I'd like you to find Atletico Madrid having huge gaps in their midfield and no clear defensive structure when they're parking the bus with no intent of attacking like we were against Pool. And can you tell me if they'd have conceded the goal we did to Liverpool with a huge gap between the CMs?

You could say the same about Dortmund some years ago and now they are with 15 points in 17 games. They are a gap right now.

You can also watch Inter Milan in 2010 for example and learn how to defend in reality.

But it's really cool to look at a picture, pretend you know something about defensive positioning and make some arrows.

[The Chels 2,502]

You could say the same about Dortmund some years ago and now they are with 15 points in 17 games. They are a gap right now. You can also watch Inter Milan in 2010 for example and learn how to defend in reality. But it's really cool to look at a picture, pretend you know something about defensive positioning and make some arrows.

They're not my pictures actually. You can look up tactical analyses yourself and you'll realise I'm not the only one who sees our defensive issues. I take it you think we're defensively brilliant and with no issues, right? I'm still waiting for the Atletico Madrid picture.

[Rom2013 446]

They're not my pictures actually. You can look up tactical analyses yourself and you'll realise I'm not the only one who sees our defensive issues. I take it you think we're defensively brilliant and with no issues, right? I'm still waiting for the Atletico Madrid picture.

PicK the game.

[The Chels 2,502]

PicK the game.

Whichever. A game where they're parking the bus, where there's no defensive structure and where there are big gaps in front of the defence.

[Rom2013 446]

Whichever. A game where they're parking the bus, where there's no defensive structure and where there are big gaps in front of the defence.

You can have fun putting arrows everywhere in the last game between Barcelona and Atletico:

[The Chels 2,502]

You can have fun putting arrows everywhere in the last game between Barcelona and Atletico:

I don't see any big issues with compactness when they had 10 behind the ball and that's what you were supposed to find. I like how you didn't want to choose any of the 6 matches where Barca failed to beat Atletico last season (or score more than 1 goal). I wonder why. You said you could find it in any game? Try Atletico v Real, 7 Jan 2015.

[lionsden 4,689]

That compactness though. Second pic is from when we were actually parking the bus and had 10 behind the ball lol.

One of the biggest factors responsible for our poor defending IMO is our disjointed pressing, which has been a problem since Jose's return - I remember us using it in the 2-0 defeat to City last year. Players often do not press in tandem, apparently having no clearly defined pressing triggers. When we do press the whole team doesn't shift across (or up) the pitch very well to accomodate for the press (second pic) and this makes it local pressing only which is much easier for the opposition to overcome. Our defensive transitions once the press is overcome also tends to be rather poor as we don't get enough men behind the ball quickly enough. Disjointed pressing ultimately leaves big gaps for the rest of the players to cover and for the opposition to exploit (first pic), leaving us very vulnerable. It should be noted that against City this season we decided not to press at all which meant we had no attacking threat and were thus pinned back into our box and fortunate not to concede before we did. Improved pressing is the answer rather than not pressing.

I absolutely agree with this. Another major factor for me is the distinct lack of pacr in the middle. Matic,fabregas and mikel simply can't keep up with pacy runners. Sometimes players just slice through our midfield like hot knife on a butter

We need to address this issue along with the lack of consistent cohesive pressing and replacing the obvious weak link in defence.

[Rom2013 446]

I don't see any big issues with compactness when they had 10 behind the ball and that's what you were supposed to find. I like how you didn't want to choose any of the 6 matches where Barca failed to beat Atletico last season (or score more than 1 goal). I wonder why. You said you could find it in any game? Try Atletico v Real, 7 Jan 2015.

It's just because it's easier, since the errors in this game were so obvious.By the way you want to see a big gap in the CM?

Atletico 2-2 Celta

20/09/2014

So wonderful all that space in the CM in the frst goal of Celta 0:40.

If I look at Real Madrid Atletico I will find that gaps also, like if I watch the Inter-Barcelona in 2010, or any other game. Atletico defendes really well, we are not at that level but anyway even with the lack of qulity of players like Cahill and Terry (Terry isn't the same and wn't be anymore) we have one of the best defenses in the league and in the world.

[The Chels 2,502]

It's just because it's easier, since the errors in this game were so obvious.By the way you want to see a big gap in the CM?

Atletico 2-2 Celta

20/09/2014

So wonderful all that space in the CM in the frst goal of Celta 0:40.

If I look at Real Madrid Atletico I will find that gaps also, like if I watch the Inter-Barcelona in 2010, or any other game. Atletico defendes really well, we are not at that level but anyway even with the lack of qulity of players like Cahill and Terry (Terry isn't the same and wn't be anymore) we have one of the best defenses in the league and in the world.

No team is going to remain compact all game, every game. You found one example from the start of the season where they had some defensive issues and weren't parking the bus (which was the criteria)? They had that area covered by the way but it's amazing that you have to look so far back to see such issues with Atletico while you could just look at any single one of our games. You will also find gaps in the game between Atletico and Real, 7 Jan 2015? I'd like to see that. I think you heavily overrate our defence as it is definitely not one of the best in the world.