Independent Scotland

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

An independent Scotland ? Good or bad idea, or dont give a flying fuck either way ? They go to the polls in a couple of weeks

A former EU Commissioner has said theres no way Scotland can join the EU if they stick with the pound but dont have a central bank.

I know we have some Scottish members on the forum, good to hear their views.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I always thought Scotland had their own, distinct identity. I think they could do it (unlike let's say a Wales), yes, but it'd have to be at the cost of changing £ to €. Would it hurt the UK though? I'm not sure, haven't really been following it avidly.

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

I always thought Scotland had their own, distinct identity. I think they could do it (unlike let's say a Wales), yes, but it'd have to be at the cost of changing £ to €. Would it hurt the UK though? I'm not sure, haven't really been following it avidly.

Salmond is adamant that he wants to use the Pound if theres a Yes vote, but also wants to be in the EU. A former EU central commissioner has said this is not possible.

Well the UK would obviously be smaller, and a reduced GDP, but I think the benefits for Scottish people in the main would be good. Theyre ruled by Westminster, yet have only one Scottish cabinet minister.

As of today the polls are narrowing with the Yes vote catching the No vote to within 6%. That said, I think there will be a narrow winning margin for the No camp.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Salmond is adamant that he wants to use the Pound if theres a Yes vote, but also wants to be in the EU. A former EU central commissioner has said this is not possible.

Well the UK would obviously be smaller, and a reduced GDP, but I think the benefits for Scottish people in the main would be good. Theyre ruled by Westminster, yet have only one Scottish cabinet minister.

As of today the polls are narrowing with the Yes vote catching the No vote to within 6%. That said, I think there will be a narrow winning margin for the No camp.

Whilst GDP could/will reduce, how significantly would it go down? I haven't really checked the figures.

Regardless, on the flip side, it could also mean that Westminster would potentially also have more resources to spread around the rest of the UK (depending on whether the GDP and general economic offset is less than the resources they would gain from a 'free' Scotland)...

Could it be argued that both the UK and Scotland would be better off without each other? I doubt it (especially more towards the UK side), but I haven't really researched into the figures and stuff to see a clear distinction in that (and frankly CBA right now ).

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

Whilst GDP could/will reduce, how significantly would it go down? I haven't really checked the figures.

Regardless, on the flip side, it could also mean that Westminster would potentially also have more resources to spread around the rest of the UK (depending on whether the GDP and general economic offset is less than the resources they would gain from a 'free' Scotland)...

Could it be argued that both the UK and Scotland would be better off without each other? I doubt it (especially more towards the UK side), but I haven't really researched into the figures and stuff to see a clear distinction in that (and frankly CBA right now ).

Not sure of percentages of economic disparity. There are factors such as the replacement for Trident, that the UK buys from the US and wiill cost billions. Scotland will get rid of Trident, and its replacement, so the cost would fall to the English and Welsh taxpayers.

Politically, Labour and Tory have won equal numbers of elections since WW2. Many labour voters are Scottish, (tories in Scotland are rarer than hens teeth), so implications for labour in England would be dire. In fact if Scotland had been independent since WW2 there would have been two less Labour administrations.

If there is a Yes vote, I think the tories in the UK could also become less popular in England. The reason being that working class people in Scotland will benefit from no prescriptions, no university education fees, and less personal taxation. I can imagine a lot of English people looking over the border, and thinking, 'yeah, we wouldnt mind a bit of independence from this Oxbridge Westminster elite that just help the rich'

[boshman 1,073]

Salmond wants an independent Scotland yet he wants to keep the pound. I bet he wants our armed forces etc also. Very independent aye.

I don't see any benefit for Scottish independence. Salmond is just power hungry. Alex Salmond - 1st president of Scotland. That's all this guy wants. And he knows it. He knows sensible adult Scots will vote no, this is why he has lowered the voting age to 16. Freedooomm and all that bollocks will strike a chord with the young and naive, i.e. under 18/children. They will vote yes not understanding the full implications of their actions.

[The_Flash 1,144]

I will definitively be voting NO as will everyone I know.

The fairy tales that Salmond is feeding people is embarrassing.

We are much better together

[The Skipper 20,593]

Not sure of percentages of economic disparity. There are factors such as the replacement for Trident, that the UK buys from the US and wiill cost billions. Scotland will get rid of Trident, and its replacement, so the cost would fall to the English and Welsh taxpayers.

Politically, Labour and Tory have won equal numbers of elections since WW2. Many labour voters are Scottish, (tories in Scotland are rarer than hens teeth), so implications for labour in England would be dire. In fact if Scotland had been independent since WW2 there would have been two less Labour administrations.

If there is a Yes vote, I think the tories in the UK could also become less popular in England. The reason being that working class people in Scotland will benefit from no prescriptions, no university education fees, and less personal taxation. I can imagine a lot of English people looking over the border, and thinking, 'yeah, we wouldnt mind a bit of independence from this Oxbridge Westminster elite that just help the rich'

So Scotland leaving would actually hurt UK a lot and I can see why... You've mentioned the Trident, millions/billions passed from 5 million consumers and inhabitants alike to the rest of England, Wales and NI... Then there's the likes of Putin potentially rubbing his hands with glee at the possibility. Also Britain just generally having a weaker voice and pull on the global market and in Europe - it won't be seen as one of the biggest powerhouses any more per se... Before getting to the inhabitants of England who would just be disillusioned with some instances that you've mentioned above.

It would certainly shake things up significantly. If you were Scottish, what would you vote? Yes or no? I'd be leaning more towards yes to be honest, the pros outweigh the cons for me (in Scotland's favour that is).

[The_Flash 1,144]

Haha the pros most certainly do not outweigh the cons in regards to a yes vote, there I am sorry your completely misinformed.

No offence Skipper but I don't think you know the facts and what is going on here day to day. The biggest mistake in Scottish history would if people voted yes. I pray there are enough smart people to see that and vote no. Scotland does not have the resources to sustain itself. They have told us if Scotland goes independent so many things we can't have yet Salmond says basically it will fine, it won't and it would be a disaster it would be better for everyone if the union is protected.

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

So Scotland leaving would actually hurt UK a lot and I can see why... You've mentioned the Trident, millions/billions passed from 5 million consumers and inhabitants alike to the rest of England, Wales and NI... Then there's the likes of Putin potentially rubbing his hands with glee at the possibility. Also Britain just generally having a weaker voice and pull on the global market and in Europe - it won't be seen as one of the biggest powerhouses any more per se... Before getting to the inhabitants of England who would just be disillusioned with some instances that you've mentioned above.

It would certainly shake things up significantly. If you were Scottish, what would you vote? Yes or no? I'd be leaning more towards yes to be honest, the pros outweigh the cons for me (in Scotland's favour that is).

Its a difficult one and not sure which way I would vote to be honest. The veneer of a yes vote has its attractions, but theres no turning back once in place. Nationalism as a concept is pretty obscene to me, and is responsible for more wars and deaths than anything else, yet has been pretty popular since WW2 and the end of the Cold War. Since the end of the Cold War there has been unprecedented globalisation and unfettered capitalism , or Free Trade, as they like to call it, but paradoxically umprecedented nationalism. Segmented markets for corporations. Given that, I cant help thinking Salmond is getting some massive backander.

It wont be a quick process if theres a Yes vote. If we take the last 30 countries who obtained independence, it takes an average of 15 months just to sort out the macroeconomics.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Haha the pros most certainly do not outweigh the cons in regards to a yes vote, there I am sorry your completely misinformed.

No offence Skipper but I don't think you know the facts and what is going on here day to day. The biggest mistake in Scottish history would if people voted yes. I pray there are enough smart people to see that and vote no. Scotland does not have the resources to sustain itself. They have told us if Scotland goes independent so many things we can't have yet Salmond says basically it will fine, it won't and it would be a disaster it would be better for everyone if the union is protected.

I don't, and I admitted that in my first post. Looking at it from an outside perspective though (and a limited view), Scotland has the potential to go independent successfully. Sure, it won't be easy, and sure there will be plenty of problems, but it is a possibility. It wouldn't be an instant success, could take decades even, but it could potentially be a good thing for Scotland IMO. As I said, if I was Scottish, with the knowledge I have right now I would be leaning towards yes, but that doesn't mean I actually would 100% vote yes. Leaning towards something doesn't mean you've made your decision if you understand me.

Edit:

Also, quite a huge proportion of Scottish people are drawn towards yes, current polls (excluding don't knows which is a mere 8%) show a 53% no - 47% yes split, that's significant. It's unfair to say that anyone saying 'yes' doesn't know any facts on the situation. 47% is a huge percentage of the Scottish population.

[Muzchap 8,966]

So Scotland leaving would actually hurt UK a lot and I can see why... You've mentioned the Trident, millions/billions passed from 5 million consumers and inhabitants alike to the rest of England, Wales and NI... Then there's the likes of Putin potentially rubbing his hands with glee at the possibility. Also Britain just generally having a weaker voice and pull on the global market and in Europe - it won't be seen as one of the biggest powerhouses any more per se... Before getting to the inhabitants of England who would just be disillusioned with some instances that you've mentioned above.

It would certainly shake things up significantly. If you were Scottish, what would you vote? Yes or no? I'd be leaning more towards yes to be honest, the pros outweigh the cons for me (in Scotland's favour that is).

Actually, Scotland leaving the UK wouldn't hurt our economy too much...

We would relocate Trident and the Ship Yards back down south.

This would HURT the Scottish economy. The UK economy would recover.

We also spend more on NHS per capita in Scotland than in England or Wales (after income tax deduction) - so the net effect would be an improvement to the bottom line.

I don't think it would hurt the UK voice - if Scotland want to leave, they will leave - how they are treating the Shetland Isles is deplorable though.

I think I would be in more support of an Independent Scotland if they didnt have a bully boy Alex Salmond leading the charge - he's an idiot unfortunately

If Scotland do leave, then it needs to be forever and no half measures - that's the only way I want to see it happen - if you want independence, you're on your own - no coming back...

Would be a shame though...

[Muzchap 8,966]

I don't, and I admitted that in my first post. Looking at it from an outside perspective though (and a limited view), Scotland has the potential to go independent successfully. Sure, it won't be easy, and sure there will be plenty of problems, but it is a possibility. It wouldn't be an instant success, could take decades even, but it could potentially be a good thing for Scotland IMO. As I said, if I was Scottish, with the knowledge I have right now I would be leaning towards yes, but that doesn't mean I actually would 100% vote yes. Leaning towards something doesn't mean you've made your decision if you understand me.

Edit:

Also, quite a huge proportion of Scottish people are drawn towards yes, current polls (excluding don't knows which is a mere 8%) show a 53% no - 47% yes split, that's significant. It's unfair to say that anyone saying 'yes' doesn't know any facts on the situation. 47% is a huge percentage of the Scottish population.

The 47% yes - is whipped up on Nationalist frenzy - that's the problem, there has been no RATIONAL debate - just lots of wild predictions and 'it will be fine' in the end.

If the 47% actually understood the huge gamble being played out - that number would drop massively. Take the 'Nationalism' argument out of it and look at purely economics and it's a baseless enterprise. Oil WILL run out - then the economy is dead in the water.

[The Skipper 20,593]

The 47% yes - is whipped up on Nationalist frenzy - that's the problem, there has been no RATIONAL debate - just lots of wild predictions and 'it will be fine' in the end.

If the 47% actually understood the huge gamble being played out - that number would drop massively. Take the 'Nationalism' argument out of it and look at purely economics and it's a baseless enterprise. Oil WILL run out - then the economy is dead in the water.

Fair enough. Valid points made pal. Like I said before, I don't actually know all the facts to the situation, I've only caught like one debate between Darling and Salmond so I'm not too informed about the whole situation.

Is oil seriously being used as the main economic reason as to why they should become independent? Poor if true.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

I am really undecided. Every few weeks you get the odd cunt going round with a survey asking are you voting yes and no giving pros and cons but I really can't decide. I'm thinking more towards yes but I'm no 100% certain.

There's more money for us if do go independent, as we will get the revenue and tax off the oil in the North Sea and the opportunity for plenty more jobs, which could help the economy pick up. Also there is one Scottish cabinet minister in Westminster right now...... we'd have our own government if we were independent and decide things for Scotland that maybe isn't as high a priority in Westminster.

The 47% yes - is whipped up on Nationalist frenzy - that's the problem, there has been no RATIONAL debate - just lots of wild predictions and 'it will be fine' in the end.

If the 47% actually understood the huge gamble being played out - that number would drop massively. Take the 'Nationalism' argument out of it and look at purely economics and it's a baseless enterprise. Oil WILL run out - then the economy is dead in the water.

Oil will run out but they have predicted that it will be 2050 at least before it runs out and especially up where I stay there is a lot of talk and a lot of renewable stuff going on, wind turbines, solar panels and all that jazz. Right enough wind turbines are right ugly looking bastards of things but still its going to just keep growing and getting bigger and bigger so I don't think oil running out is exactly a massive concern right now.

I think if we do go independent, you guys will lose a lot of money because the bulk of the oil and gas money that goes to Westminster is from Scotland. Some studies say that upto 90% of the money received for oil and gas is from the Scottish Continental Shelf which just shows how much money an independent Scotland could have for those things. Which is I suppose why people are saying we should go independent so we can get all of the pie instead of a slice of it.

[The Chels 2,502]

The momentum is completely with the Yes campaign. I'd be surprised if they didn't win.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Shouldn't something of this magnitude be a two-thirds vote rather than a simple majority? I'd like to know more.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Are us English allowed to vote as well?