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Cesc Fàbregas


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I kinda see where Bluelyon is coming from. This is only my opinion, but out of the players we've signed and are rumored to be after, Cesc is the one I'm worried about for a myriad of reasons. I only skimmed the last few pages, so I'm not sure what has been discussed. But part of the reason why I have doubts over this signing is that Cesc hasn't performed consistently over the course of a season for five years now. He tends to start the season brilliantly but then dips drastically around Christmas and it's a pattern that's been happening since 2009.

I also worry because his best form for Arsenal, Barcelona and Spain has come when playing further forward, and I don't think this is something that should be easily disregarded. He did play primarily in a deeper position at Arsenal but in his last two seasons there, he had an advanced role. That was when he put in his best performances and because of that Arsenal fans started calling it "the cesc role".

So not only has he not consistently performed well for a duration of a season for five years but he also hasn't consistently played in a deeper position since 2008/2009 when he was 22 years. He's now 27. The formative years of his professional career has basically been spent playing in an advanced position.

And if you look at the years Cesc played deep, Arsenal were incredibly vulnerable in central midfield. Even when he played beside Flamini, who back then was a workhorse and had an incredible engine, Arsenal were still so easily overrun in midfield. And it's a problem that persisted regardless of who was paired beside Cesc - whether it was Gilberto, Flamini, or Denilson - they were still so weak in that area.

I'm not saying that he won't be good for us playing in central midfield, but I worry that it'll come at the expense of balance and solidity and I worry that we'll be replacing one problem with another. But maybe I'm being overly skeptical. An argument can be made that he'll be playing in a much more defensively organized system than he did at Barca and Arsenal. So maybe his limitations won't be as problematic for us as it was at his previous clubs. You only have to look at J.T's performances under AVB and his performances under Mourinho to see how an organized system can compensate for a player's limitations.

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I kinda see where Bluelyon is coming from. This is only my opinion, but out of the players we've signed and are rumored to be after, Cesc is the one I'm worried about for a myriad of reasons. I only skimmed the last few pages, so I'm not sure what has been discussed. But part of the reason why I have doubts over this signing is that Cesc hasn't performed consistently over the course of a season for five years now. He tends to start the season brilliantly but then dips drastically around Christmas and it's a pattern that's been happening since 2009.

I also worry because his best form for Arsenal, Barcelona and Spain has come when playing further forward, and I don't think this is something that should be easily disregarded. He did play primarily in a deeper position at Arsenal but in his last two seasons there, he had an advanced role. That was when he put in his best performances and because of that Arsenal fans started calling it "the cesc role".

So not only has he not consistently performed well for a duration of a season for five years but he also hasn't consistently played in a deeper position since 2008/2009 when he was 22 years. He's now 27. The formative years of his professional career has basically been spent playing in an advanced position.

And if you look at the years Cesc played deep, Arsenal were incredibly vulnerable in central midfield. Even when he played beside Flamini, who back then was a workhorse and had an incredible engine, Arsenal were still so easily overrun in midfield. And it's a problem that persisted regardless of who was paired beside Cesc - whether it was Gilberto, Flamini, or Denilson - they were still so weak in that area.

I'm not saying that he won't be good for us playing in central midfield, but I worry that it'll come at the expense of balance and solidity and I worry that we'll be replacing one problem with another. But maybe I'm being overly skeptical. An argument can be made that he'll be playing in a much more defensively organized system than he did at Barca and Arsenal. So maybe his limitations won't be as problematic for us as it was at his previous clubs. You only have to look at J.T's performances under AVB and his performances under Mourinho to see how an organized system can compensate for a player's limitations.

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Your right....

However, with rambo and matic in the midfield, i think defensively we will be alright....

4-3-3-

Matic

rambo-cesc

Willian/oscar-Hazard/schurrle

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Your right....

However, with rambo and matic in the midfield, i think defensively we will be alright....

4-3-3-

Matic

rambo-cesc

Willian/oscar-Hazard/schurrle

If Mou will go with 4:3:3 next season with Cesc as AM, I think he must definately bring Pogba/Vidal/...here because all the good things Cesc will bring to midfield, Rambo will destroy it. He was good sometime ago, but this year he is terrible and shoudnt be a starter. Him in current form wont make our midfield good even with Cesc.

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If Mou will go with 4:3:3 next season with Cesc as AM, I think he must definately bring Pogba/Vidal/...here because all the good things Cesc will bring to midfield, Rambo will destroy it. He was good sometime ago, but this year he is terrible and shoudnt be a starter. Him in current form wont make our midfield good even with Cesc.

Well, it doesnt matter what you or anyone else thinks about Rambo, because Jose loves Rambo and will continue playing Rambo as long as he is not suspended...

In every team sheet, Jose will pick Rambo as his first player all the time.

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Well, it doesnt matter what you or anyone else thinks about Rambo, because Jose loves Rambo and will continue playing Rambo as long as he is not suspended...

In every team sheet, Jose will pick Rambo as his first player all the time.

I don't think Ramires is that important or appreciated by Mourinho, but yeah I think he'll play quite often, hopefully not always though
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I don't think Ramires is that important or appreciated by Mourinho, but yeah I think he'll play quite often, hopefully not always though

Ramires is technically inept and a hothead (at times), however, he is what a mourinho player is....

Hard and tough worker, very physical, fast/quick, willing to go all in for Jose without looking back. Jose never said anything bad about ramires while taking shots at most of the players on Chelsea last season.

It's really easy to see that Jose views Ramires very highly. Unless Chelsea gets someone in his mold, I can't see rambo being benched under Jose.

If there is anything world class that applies to rambo, its his stamina and pace. Something, none of the other cms are particularly known for.

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Ramires is technically inept and a hothead (at times), however, he is what a mourinho player is....

Hard and tough worker, very physical, fast/quick, willing to go all in for Jose without looking back. Jose never said anything bad about ramires while taking shots at most of the players on Chelsea last season.

It's really easy to see that Jose views Ramires very highly. Unless Chelsea gets someone in his mold, I can't see rambo being benched under Jose.

If there is anything world class that applies to rambo, its his stamina and pace. Something, none of the other cms are particularly known for.

Well, it's only good that we have those options now. Last season we had only one option and it showed. I'm glad Rambo is available for us, but I wasn't glad when he was the only one available.

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I partly agree. I have my doubts about playing Cesc in the pivot, too. For several reasons:

1) he isn't a patient, "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player. He'll want to go forward and that will potentially expose us and put more pressure on Matic;

2) it might be a waste of his talent. I do think he might work out in the pivot, because he certainly has the experience, ability and vision to be a pass distributor, a deep-lying playmaker, and he isn't completely hopeless in defence, and I think he'll be a much better CM for us than he ever was for Barcelona due to us playing a more direct football, but playing him away from the final third is counterproductive when he has an immense ability to provide the final ball. Seriously, Fabregas is one of the best players in the world when it comes to providing lethal through balls. He must be played in a more advanced position than the pivot to get the best out of him. Saddling a player that has the best vision and passing ability in the team with major defensive work--that is far from being his main strength--is a massive waste of his talent.

As for his inconsistency in the second half of the season at Barcelona, it's true, and this obviously might be a cause for some concern, but not necessarily. Different team, different league--and hopefully a much healthier work environment. From what I remember, his dip in form at Arsenal has never been as drastic as at Barcelona and had more to do with injuries than anything else. Fabregas's results at Barcelona--both positive and negative--must be taken into account, but I'm not sure how truly they reflect on what kind of player he is. He always felt like a foreign body in the tiki-taka machine and the work environment was anything but healthy and became downright poisonous towards the end of the season.

These posts from barcelona fans on Barcaforum pretty much sum up Fabregas's experience at Barcelona:

Considering all of this, he's been actually amazingly consistent. Despite not suiting the team's style and being played out of position, despite the massive criticism for not being Xavi 2.0, despite the lack of continuity and the lack of a fixed role in the squad, he was consistently one of their best ball providers(in fact, every season at Barcelona he was directly involved in 17-22 goals only in La Liga), and he's consistently one of the best through-ball players in Europe for years. That's some amazing consistency, actually.

So out of all the players we have been linked with, Fabregas is the one that worries me the least. We can be sure that even if he doesn't fit well in our team(unlikely) and plays like shit(very unlikely), he'll still have 15+ goals+assists a season while providing 20+ through balls--and that's realistically the worst-case scenario with him.

The best-case scenario,

In other barcelona fans' words:

After all the shit in Barcelona, I think he'll be more motivated than ever.

Your 1 2 points are mutually exclusive. That means that if 1 is correct then 2 has no effect and vise versa. Think about it. When we will be playing with a lower table side (there were our main problems last season) that like to park it, he will eventually go forward to aid the attack, so how is this a waste of talent?

If 2 is correct, and it end out being a waste of talent to have him in cm, then how will 1 be true, since he will actually be a "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player? You know what i mean?

Well imo there's not going to be a waste of talent situation, because i think he will be played most when we face lower table teams which means that he will be allowed to move forward and help the attacking AMs and therefore no need to worry about putting pressure on Matic since these teams will not be interested to attack with numbers.

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Your 1 2 points are mutually exclusive. That means that if 1 is correct then 2 has no effect and vise versa. Think about it. When we will be playing with a lower table side (there were our main problems last season) that like to park it, he will eventually go forward to aid the attack, so how is this a waste of talent?

If 2 is correct, and it end out being a waste of talent to have him in cm, then how will 1 be true, since he will actually be a "I'll-stay-here-in-the-midfield-while-you-guys-go-attack" kind of player? You know what i mean?

Well imo there's not going to be a waste of talent situation, because i think he will be played most when we face lower table teams which means that he will be allowed to move forward and help the attacking AMs and therefore no need to worry about putting pressure on Matic since these teams will not be interested to attack with numbers.

No, not mutually exclusive at all. Fabregas can play as a CM in midfield and he can play as an AM a bit further up the pitch. But I don't think he's the type of CM that is most effective as part of the pivot. He was the most productive for Arsenal when he played a more advanced role. If he plays in the pivot, he will have much more responsibility when it comes to defending and tracking back. A CM in the pivot can't focus only on creating/attacking. He can't go forward too much. It's a more restricted position when it comes to creating than that of an AM. Having Fabregas in the pivot might potentially only expose his weaknesses while taking his time and productivity from what he does best: create and provide the final ball.

I'm not saying he won't work in the pivot--he might; I doubt he will be shit there--but I hope Jose won't repeat Barcelona's mistake and stick him into a position that is not ideal for him. Though playing in the pivot still fits him more than some roles Cesc had to play at Barcelona.

In the end, it's all just speculation. I wish we knew for certain what position Jose bought Cesc for. I'm not at all sure that he intends to play him in the pivot. Who knows, maybe Jose's going to change the formation this season.

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