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Cesc Fàbregas


Tomo
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Simply because some of the mistakes he's done have absolutely nothing to do with all that. Again I'll use Everton's second goal as example because I have the images for that, but he's made that mistake type on a number of occasions already this season:

image.png

Choosing to make the run that Matic did in the image above rather than cover the area where Naismith (who he was originally tracking) is in and in which McGeady eventually runs into, has absolutely nothing to do with tactics or anyone. It's just a poor decision. If he has a "pressing instinct" then the run should have been towards the ball where he would have been able to fill the gap and stop the goal, not away from it.

I can forgive mistakes from being too aggressive in pressing, but more often so far this season, the mistakes from Matic has been that he has been too eager to cover and hence being too late to press. Again, I'm sounding too harsh on Matic, but that's only because we're analyzing his mistakes alone. On a lot of occasions his pressing has been excellent, but it's the mistakes we remember.

But I get what you are trying to say. We don't have the CBs to compliment our style of pressing. Neither JT nor Cahill are able to push up and cover any gaps that appear and play 1vs1 (Azpi for CB? :halo: ). Now THAT, for me, is an issue much more likely to persist in the future than pressing mistakes from Cesc and Matic.

I genuinely believe it is something that we can solve, or at least improve, on the training ground. I guess time will tell.

There are 2 more Chelsea players near the area and Willian is also near Naismith. The team in that moment is balanced, Even when Ramires fails to stop the Everton player, the team is balanced and in the moment of the goal there are 3 players near Naismith but none of them try to stop him (I think Lukaku is offside in that moment). But the team and also Matic are well positioned.

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No chance in hell that Mourinho is going to play this Matic-Cesc duo in big games. I'm sorry but IMO Fabregas does lack that defensive discipline which Neville and Carragher were talking about, and I'm not criticizing him because he offers so much in attack, but this is only good for games against sides such as Swansea or Aston Villa. We saw Mourinho starting with Ramires at Everton and we will keep seeing him making this exact same decision as the season goes on, because there is no way Matic and Cesc can control or defend against a team like City. And to be honest, we look at our best when Ramires plays. I criticized him A LOT last season but he really deserves credit for his start of the season, three in midfield suits him much better than only two like last season.

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No chance in hell that Mourinho is going to play this Matic-Cesc duo in big games. I'm sorry but IMO Fabregas does lack that defensive discipline which Neville and Carragher were talking about, and I'm not criticizing him because he offers so much in attack, but this is only good for games against sides such as Swansea or Aston Villa. We saw Mourinho starting with Ramires at Everton and we will keep seeing him making this exact same decision as the season goes on, because there is no way Matic and Cesc can control or defend against a team like City. And to be honest, we look at our best when Ramires plays. I criticized him A LOT last season but he really deserves credit for his start of the season, three in midfield suits him much better than only two like last season.

so you would leave Cesc out of big games ,,??? perhaps you should break that news to Diego

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so you would leave Cesc out of big games ,,??? perhaps you should break that news to Diego

I think he means he wants Cesc-Matic-Ramires in big games, and I agree. 4-3-3 suits better both Ramires and Fabregas. The problem is, they played very little time together in a true 4-3-3, so it'd probably take some time before they develop great understanding with each other.

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I will be utterly shocked if Jose doesn't line up with 4-3-3 on Sunday, surely there is like a 1% chance of that happening? Even less.

Neville was harsh but I can't disagree there? I feel its a completely fair assessment of him and Matic in the 'pivot'. Spot on in my eyes and I look forward to seeing 4-3-3 with Cesc getting more assists.

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I think he means he wants Cesc-Matic-Ramires in big games, and I agree. 4-3-3 suits better both Ramires and Fabregas. The problem is, they played very little time together in a true 4-3-3, so it'd probably take some time before they develop great understanding with each other.

you can obviously read his mind I couldn't
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I don't know what the fuss is about. Ramires (and Willian) always started the big games and will continue to do so. The arrival of Cesc was never going to change that.

It seems on this occasion that the movement and passing play of Swansea was a bit too much for the very young partnership of Cesc & Matic. Cesc will continue to play a deeper role against the lesser teams to help break them down and both Matic and Ramires will cover his defensive deficiencies in the bigger games.

Oh, and I can't remember who it was, but screw you to the guy who didn't believe me when I said Fabregas will often take Oscars role as the main AM. :)

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Gary Neville is the man. Always seems to see the game for exactly what it is... A shame he singled out Cesc but there was no denying we had trouble against Swansea partly due to Cesc not being disciplined.

I'm not so sure it all just comes down to Fab though... In the previous games Oscar did a great job of playing off of him and filling in when Cesc did get go forward, on Saturday that was non-existent. The front four of Schurrle, OScar, Hazard and Costa didn't do a good job of pressing high and as a result Cesc tried to over compensate and it made things worse. He doesn't have to do that and will learn not, when the press is ineffective sit back a bit and wait for opportunities. One man pressuring the ball is never gonna work...

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Here's the Neville analysis by the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjP9KVWA91U

Absolutely spot on analysis by Neville there and in some ways, Fabregas' defensive issues in the pivot should come of no surprise really. For most of his career, he has played in a 4-3-3, with Barcelona and Spain and they have always played the pressing game and press as a unit high up the pitch. It has probably got to the point where he's used to that approach and now, he's not really yet used to ours where we don't always press that high up (just like what Neville highlighted about getting too eager to press and leave too much space behind him). Even when he did play in the pivot for Arsenal, I doubt they really did much on the defensive side of things either since they are getting constantly raped defensively by other teams.

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Gary Neville is the man. Always seems to see the game for exactly what it is... A shame he singled out Cesc but there was no denying we had trouble against Swansea partly due to Cesc not being disciplined.

I'm not so sure it all just comes down to Fab though... In the previous games Oscar did a great job of playing off of him and filling in when Cesc did get go forward, on Saturday that was non-existent. The front four of Schurrle, OScar, Hazard and Costa didn't do a good job of pressing high and as a result Cesc tried to over compensate and it made things worse. He doesn't have to do that and will learn not, when the press is ineffective sit back a bit and wait for opportunities. One man pressuring the ball is never gonna work...

Oscar played more offensively on saturday. Until the moment Ramires came on, Fabregas was playing mostly deep and Oscar ahead with little if any interchangeability. You may remember that Oscar had a few shots on goal against Swansea and was generally playing around the box, which he had not been doing as frequently in the other games. I think Brazilian commentators mentioned it during the game too, I could be remembering it wrong though. I prefer the Oscar that appears everywhere he's needed on the pitch, I think that's one of his biggest qualities, I don't like it when he seems too focused on trying to score.

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Oscar played more offensively on saturday. Until the moment Ramires came on, Fabregas was playing mostly deep and Oscar ahead with little if any interchangeability. You may remember that Oscar had a few shots on goal against Swansea and was generally playing around the box, which he had not been doing as frequently in the other games. I think Brazilian commentators mentioned it during the game too, I could be remembering it wrong though. I prefer the Oscar that appears everywhere he's needed on the pitch, I think that's one of his biggest qualities, I don't like it when he seems too focused on trying to score.

Ya I agree, he didn't really read the game effectively for my liking. Both he and Fabregas were caught way too high up the pitch and not really pressing the ball at all. In the first few matches Oscar was better at covering for Cesc when he marauded forward. Ramires is so crucial to the team I don't know why people dog him so much... He is precisely what that game needed and he executed it to perfection... Love him.

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Ya I agree, he didn't really read the game effectively for my liking. Both he and Fabregas were caught way too high up the pitch and not really pressing the ball at all. In the first few matches Oscar was better at covering for Cesc when he marauded forward. Ramires is so crucial to the team I don't know why people dog him so much... He is precisely what that game needed and he executed it to perfection... Love him.

Actually the compilation of Oscar against Swansea shows him pressing many times and well positioned in most of them. He was the less worse (although far from his usual level) in the team regarding that. He pressed the zone he normally does (opposition transition from defense to midfield). But I do agree about Ramires. I think it was both Ramires effect and Mourinho positioning and explaining how everyone should press. Oscar, Cesc and Matic all benefited from the adjustments made by Mourinho and Ramires' presence.

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Actually the compilation of Oscar against Swansea shows him pressing many times and well positioned in most of them. He was the less worse (although far from his usual level) in the team regarding that. He pressed the zone he normally does (opposition transition from defense to midfield). But I do agree about Ramires. I think it was both Ramires effect and Mourinho positioning and explaining how everyone should press. Oscar, Cesc and Matic all benefited from the adjustments made by Mourinho and Ramires' presence.

Agreed. When I said 'not really pressing the ball' I mean't he wasn't getting close enough to it(credit some of that to how well Swansea played one touch passes out from the back) Pressing is mostly a team thing anyways... The thing I didn't like about Oscar's press is he didn't identify where on the pitch to apply the pressure on the ball. Swansea had no trouble playing out from the back and there were times in the first half we couldn't get near them. Hopefully just a blip... I'm almost convinced 4-3-3 with be the formation we play in big matches though, Gary Neville called it so perfectly, if you give Yaya, Silva and even Nasri the types of pockets we gave Swansea we'd get battered.

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Absolutely spot on analysis by Neville there and in some ways, Fabregas' defensive issues in the pivot should come of no surprise really. For most of his career, he has played in a 4-3-3, with Barcelona and Spain and they have always played the pressing game and press as a unit high up the pitch. It has probably got to the point where he's used to that approach and now, he's not really yet used to ours where we don't always press that high up (just like what Neville highlighted about getting too eager to press and leave too much space behind him). Even when he did play in the pivot for Arsenal, I doubt they really did much on the defensive side of things either since they are getting constantly raped defensively by other teams.

He was so ineffectual even when he did get near. I mean its one thing to press and quite another to press and win the ball back... If you're gonna be that reckless at least put in a tackle! That's why I love Ramires! He is a one man wrecking crew when fit and playing up to speed.

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I must say, In the second half against Swansea i really enjoyed Matic, Ramires, Cesc and Oscar all playing together. On paper Oscar was out wide but in reality he was more central while Ivan kept the width. Against City i would probably play Willian just because of his pace and how good he is on the counter. Regarding Oscar, I'll be interested to see what Jose does with him in the coming months.

I loved that formation, I don't know if it will work against bigger teams but the famous MAZACAR had oscar on the wings and he didnt look out of place. His combination with hazard and fabregas reminded me of them.

What I love about this season is that we now score corners because of Fabregas quality crosses. If we are struggling to break down the opponent, we score from the corner. Liverpool and mancity had a that advantage over us last season by a fair margin

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