Cesc Fàbregas

[Jype 6,398]

At least in that one picture he looks a lot like Javier Mascherano with that haircut.

[Jase 43,479]

It has nothing to do with Fabregas or Mata playing for us or not. Quite objectively, Fabregas is the better final ball provider, better long ball and through ball passer and creator and has been for many years. Hell, he's still the top through ball passer in the PL despite leaving 3 years ago. That's insane.

I don't remember Mata ever topping through-ball charts or clear-cut chances charts in Europe. He's not a better final ball provider. Objectively.

You said the most in Europe but then gave a stat in the Premier League? And I said similar, not the 'same'. Didn't Mata at one point was amongst the top 5 in Europe for assists and chances created (even if that stat is flawed a bit)? Moreover, that stat you posted is on through ball but how does that show that he's the better final ball provider, better in executing long balls and even chances created?

Just for interest though, would like to see a detailed stats for all those aspects you mentioned on the creative players around Europe for say in the last 5 years. Do you happen to know about it?

[AndersonBLUE 819]

This could go two ways:

He will provide godlike through-balls like we hope...

Or he will be passing sideways a lot. I really hope we don't play a possession game like Arsenal does currently.

[Jase 43,479]

Can we stop talking about Mata now? Making me sad.

Still refuse to watch United matches most of the time because I can't stand seeing him in that shirt.

Like I said, blame Peace.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

You said the most in Europe but then gave a stat in the Premier League?

He's the best at through balls in the PL, and La Liga and Europe. I hate repeating myself. I already posted the information on Europe. But here it is again, if you don't believe me:

Top 20 players who made the most accurate through balls in 2013-2014 season in Top 5 European leagues (whoscored's data):

1 Cesc Fabregas 0.7 (24 in total)

2 David Silva 0.6 (16)

3 Isco 0.5 (16)

4 Luis Suárez 0.5 (16)

5 Roberto Firmino 0.5 (16)

6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)

7 Francesco Totti 0.4 (11)

8 Jack Wilshere 0.4 (10)

9 Andrea Pirlo 0.4 (12)

10 Ander Herrera 0.4 (13)

11 Philippe Coutinho 0.4

12 Aaron Ramsey 0.4

13 Mesut Özil 0.4

14 Reyes 0.4

15 Andrés Iniesta 0.4

16 Johan Cavalli 0.4

17 Yohan Cabaye 0.4

18 Xavi 0.4

19 Lionel Messi 0.4

20 Antonio Cassano 0.4

Mata isn't even in Top 20(and this is a per match stat, so it doesn't matter how many games he played)

Moreover, that stat you posted is on through ball but how does that show that he's the better final ball provider, better in executing long balls and even chances created?

I think the correlation between clear-cut chances created and being a better final ball provider couldn't be more obvious.

The definition of a clear cut chance is ‘A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score usually in a one-on-one scenario or from very close range.’

Clear-cut chances created stat is the best stat for determining the best final ball provider. I'm not sure what more proof you want.

[Jase 43,479]

He's the best at through balls in the PL, and La Liga and Europe. I hate repeating myself. I already posted the information on Europe. But here it is again, if you don't believe me:

Top 20 players who made the most accurate through balls in 2013-2014 season in Top 5 European leagues (whoscored's data):

1 Cesc Fabregas 0.7 (24 in total)

2 David Silva 0.6 (16)

3 Isco 0.5 (16)

4 Luis Suárez 0.5 (16)

5 Roberto Firmino 0.5 (16)

6 Henrikh Mkhita... 0.5 (14)

7 Francesco Totti 0.4 (11)

8 Jack Wilshere 0.4 (10)

9 Andrea Pirlo 0.4 (12)

10 Ander Herrera 0.4 (13)

11 Philippe Coutinho 0.4

12 Aaron Ramsey 0.4

13 Mesut Özil 0.4

14 Reyes 0.4

15 Andrés Iniesta 0.4

16 Johan Cavalli 0.4

17 Yohan Cabaye 0.4

18 Xavi 0.4

19 Lionel Messi 0.4

20 Antonio Cassano 0.4

Mata isn't even in Top 20.

I think the correlation between clear-cut chances created and being a better final ball provider couldn't be more obvious.

The definition of a clear cut chance is ‘A situation where a player should reasonably be expected to score usually in a one-on-one scenario or from very close range.’

Clear-cut chances created stat is the best stat for determining the best final ball provider. I'm not sure what more proof you want.

If you are gonna only take last season's stats, then obviously Fabregas would win it. Mata hardly even played consistently in the entire season.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

If you are gonna only take last season's stats, then obviously Fabregas would win it. Mata hardly even played consistently in the entire season.

The through ball chart is a per match stat, so it doesn't matter how many games he played.

[Jase 43,479]

The through ball chart is a per match stat, so it doesn't matter how many games he played.

Yeah but if the numbers are still high even after more games are added, then the stat will look even more impressive and to the point, no?

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

I think he hates this haircut more than we do.

Daniella Semaan made sure he gets no pussy while on the European tour haha

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Yeah but if the numbers are still high even after more games are added, then the stat will look even more impressive and to the point, no?

Juan Mata in 2013-2014:

15 appearances for MU, through ball rate 0.3 (5 through balls in total)

13 appearances for Chelsea, through ball rate 0.2 (3 through balls in total)

I think 28 appearances is more than enough to get an accurate data. Mata has never been a through ball master for us. In 2012-2013 season, he played 35 games for us and his through ball rate was 0.2 (8 through balls in total). Compare it to Cesc's through ball's rate of 0.7 (24 through balls in total). It's not even worth comparing. Cesc is obviously a more creative passer.

[Jase 43,479]

Juan Mata in 2013-2014:

15 appearances for MU, through ball rate 0.3 (5 through balls in total)

13 appearances for Chelsea, through ball rate 0.2 (3 through balls in total)

I think 28 appearances is more than enough to get an accurate data. Mata has never been a through ball master for us. In 2012-2013 season, he played 35 games for us and his through ball rate was 0.2 (8 through balls in total). Compare it to Cesc's through ball's rate of 0.7 (24 through balls in total). It's not even worth comparing. Cesc is obviously a more creative passer.

As it is, I suppose your point is proven right by the stats but I'm just not so sure if it can be as black and white as that. I mean, had Mata been playing in a team where there's a lot of off the ball runners (like Fabregas did at Barcelona and Arsenal), his numbers would probably be higher than it is. But I guess we won't know that right now.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

As it is, I suppose your point is proven right by the stats but I'm just not so sure if it can be as black and white as that. I mean, had Mata been playing in a team where there's a lot of off the ball runners (like Fabregas did at Barcelona and Arsenal), his numbers would probably be higher than it is. But I guess we won't know that right now.

I agree on Arsenal, but there are no real runners at Barcelona. They don't play with a runner CF. Fabregas's through ball rate, while still very high, suffered at Barcelona because of the team's style. In his last season at Arsenal, Fabregas's through ball rate was 1.5 (!). That's why he's still topping the PL's through-ball chart despite the fact that other playmakers had 3 more years to overtake him--and couldn't.

Stats aren't everything, of course, but in this case, they show how much more creative and accurate his passing is compared to other playmakers. Fabregas has many obvious weaknesses to his game, but his passing, vision and creativity are absolutely top notch.

[Jase 43,479]

I agree on Arsenal, but there are no real runners at Barcelona. They don't play with a runner CF. Fabregas's through ball rate, while still very high, suffered at Barcelona because of that. In his last season at Arsenal, Fabregas's through ball rate was 1.5 (!). That's why he's still topping the PL's through-ball chart despite the fact that other playmakers had 3 more years to overtake him--and couldn't.

Stats aren't everything, of course, but in this case, they show how much more creative and accurate his passing is compared to other playmakers. Fabregas has many obvious weaknesses to his game, but his passing, vision and creativity are absolutely top notch.

When compare with us, Barcelona still have off the ball runners than we do. Never mind just their attacking players, sometimes you even see Alves getting beyond their frontline.

[laeth 527]

That pass master video is insane. We've been dying for someone who can do that for years. Can't wait to see him in action.

[1chelsea 864]

I think I saw some people saying they don't see Fabregas being able to fill the deep-lying playmaker role well. Just take a look at this:

His long passing is that good. Many if not most of those passes didn't come from where you would expect a #10 to be, he is creating those chances from really deep. We just gotta have the smart runners for that to happen, this is one of the reasons why I think Schürrle would do better than Willian in that setup. If he can't play the #8/DLP/Regista role, nobody in the world but Pirlo can.

Those pass look like half trophy already if they are sent to the back of the net

[mannyfreshh 164]

He's balding, he doesn't really have much choice.

Sadly it's true.. The man is losing the battle to baldness.. It's an epidemic

[nyikolajevics 2,421]

Sadly it's true.. The man is losing the battle to baldness.. It's an epidemic

Fabregas is a fuckin' millionare with a supermodel wife so I don't really think he is sad about his hair.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I think I saw some people saying they don't see Fabregas being able to fill the deep-lying playmaker role well. Just take a look at this:

His long passing is that good. Many if not most of those passes didn't come from where you would expect a #10 to be, he is creating those chances from really deep. We just gotta have the smart runners for that to happen, this is one of the reasons why I think Schürrle would do better than Willian in that setup. If he can't play the #8/DLP/Regista role, nobody in the world but Pirlo can.

I physically can't wait for Fabregas to be proving these sort of deep through balls to the likes of Schurrle and Costa. Phenomenal.