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Paulinho


themightyblue
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That kind of example adds nothing. Ronaldinho was a starter for Milan not too long ago and he sucked last year at Flamengo. Seedorf was an important Milan player aswell, and, although he's doing fine in Botafogo, he's not ripping any team apart. He's probably not even the best midfielder in brazilian league. In fact, Botafogo holds the 11th position. There are examples of players that were nothing short of extraodinary playing in weaker leagues that surplisingly turned out to be awesome players in other (even stronger) leagues. You could even fit Radamel Falcao there. He wasn't that good playing in the weak argentinian league not too long ago.

You do realise players can improve if they go abroad?

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You do realise players can improve if they go abroad?

But following some people's logic he should have sucked hard at Porto, taking into account he didn't manage anything extraodinary at River Plate, playing in a much weaker league. What I'm trying to say is - looking solely on that aspect is misleading. There are players who even change from water to wine just by taking the switch between two strong leagues.

Saying brazilian league is weak because a 38 year old made his way to MOTM is a stupid argument.

On topic: I think Paulinho is a great player, but we should go after a player to replace Torres. And Corinthians won't let Paulinho leave easily, especially not before the world club cup.

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But following some people's logic he should have sucked hard at Porto, taking into account he didn't manage anything extraodinary at River Plate, playing in a much weaker league. What I'm trying to say is - looking solely on that aspect is misleading. There are players who even change from water to wine just by taking the switch between two strong leagues.

Saying brazilian league is weak because a 38 year old made his way to MOTM is a stupid argument.

On topic: I think Paulinho is a great player, but we should go after a player to replace Torres. And Corinthians won't let Paulinho leave easily, especially not before the world club cup.

Fair point, but I don't think anyone's really saying the Brazillian league is weak. In my opinion it's probably top 5. But to then go on and say that the Brazillian league is better than the Italian league because so and so is kind of double standards.

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But following some people's logic he should have sucked hard at Porto, taking into account he didn't manage anything extraodinary at River Plate, playing in a much weaker league. What I'm trying to say is - looking solely on that aspect is misleading. There are players who even change from water to wine just by taking the switch between two strong leagues.

Saying brazilian league is weak because a 38 year old made his way to MOTM is a stupid argument.

On topic: I think Paulinho is a great player, but we should go after a player to replace Torres. And Corinthians won't let Paulinho leave easily, especially not before the world club cup.

Just for the record, I wrote no such thing. It was mere example (to add to the many points I made or thought I did) of a player who at 38 dominates in the league.

Also, please re-read what I wrote about Oscar: Oscar will probably do better for Brazil *because* he has moved to a much stronger league, which will help him fulfill his potential. Ronaldinho is shite IMHO; I know people will disagree, but that's how I feel. And I played with him a couple of times (just for fun) when he was 17.

I will not comment on the rest as I've already stated my opinion once.

This discussion is pertinent concerning Paulinho though, because aside from a few showings for Brazil all the data we have on him is from playing in Brazil. Now Corinthians did win the Libertadores Cup which is closer to the European game than the Brazilian league is (far more physical), and Paulinho was a key player for them.

Comparing Paulinho with Romeu is difficult, because they look completely different players: Romeu is slow and seems to work best when sitting deep as a holding mid. Although Paulinho can play as a holding mid, because he's a good marker, he shines in a more versatile role.

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Just for the record, I wrote no such thing. It was mere example (to add to the many points I made or thought I did) of a player who at 38 dominates in the league.

Also, please re-read what I wrote about Oscar: Oscar will probably do better for Brazil *because* he has moved to a much stronger league, which will help him fulfill his potential. Ronaldinho is shite IMHO; I know people will disagree, but that's how I feel. And I played with him a couple of times (just for fun) when he was 17.

I will not comment on the rest as I've already stated my opinion once.

This discussion is pertinent concerning Paulinho though, because aside from a few showings for Brazil all the data we have on him is from playing in Brazil. Now Corinthians did win the Libertadores Cup which is closer to the European game than the Brazilian league is (far more physical), and Paulinho was a key player for them.

Comparing Paulinho with Romeu is difficult, because they look completely different players: Romeu is slow and seems to work best when sitting deep as a holding mid. Although Paulinho can play as a holding mid, because he's a good marker, he shines in a more versatile role.

I see where you are coming from, but the truth is - he's not dominating the league (Ze Roberto). And despite being in the first place of the league, Fluminense isn't displaying a good football as of lately. So that's not such a feat as it may sound. I would put Ze Roberto maybe #9th or #10th best midfielder of the league. Good, but certainly not dominating.

Paulinho is what people like to call in Brazil a modern dm, he doens't lack the defensive skills his position requires but he is technical and talented enough to be a threat when he comes from deep surprising the opposing defenders. And he's still 24. So he may develop more before reaching his peak.

Fair point, but I don't think anyone's really saying the Brazillian league is weak. In my opinion it's probably top 5. But to then go on and say that the Brazillian league is better than the Italian league because so and so is kind of double standards.

Glad to hear you don't think it's weak. But I disagree about being top5, I don't think it's quite there yet. I'd say top10 to be fair, somewhere like 7th or 8th.

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Fair point, but I don't think anyone's really saying the Brazillian league is weak. In my opinion it's probably top 5. But to then go on and say that the Brazillian league is better than the Italian league because so and so is kind of double standards.

Nobody said Brazilian League was better.

Serie A has a well deserved glamour that Brazilian League (for lack of organization and competence) does not share. Atm, Italian Clubs are with a long not seen lack of quality, while Brazil is slowly restoring its full quality (60s,80s,90s).

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Nobody said Brazilian League was better.

Serie A has a well deserved glamour that Brazilian League (for lack of organization and competence) does not share. Atm, Italian Clubs are with a long not seen lack of quality, while Brazil is slowly restoring its full quality (60s,80s,90s).

Brazil is still far away from the quality we had here in 90s.

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Brazil is still far away from the quality we had here in 90s.

Mate, it pains me to say that the last decade was lost. Our League only got worse and worse.

What I said is that we are slowly returning to 60s,70s,90s. We are still very far.

Why people always distorce and/or comment on things I did not say?

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Mate, it pains me to say that the last decade was lost. Our League only got worse and worse.

What I said is that we are slowly returning to 60s,70s,90s. We are still very far.

Why people always distorce and/or comment on things I did not say?

You didn't say, but some ppl could imply that it was getting close to 90's level. Henrique just clarified that out - despite improving, still far from its best times.

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1st: Please dont call it Brazilian Serie A, If you want to use the official name use Brazileirao Petrobras. Italian teams are all worse than the top 4, 5 or 6 Brazilian Teams. Juve and Napoli are the only that would challenge the title (they would probably win it).

2nd: I also think we should get Moutinho or something, but that was not what you posted first.

3rd: There is no space for 2 CM in the starting lineup (that was my discussion). If you follow Brazil very closely, you would know that Mano called more players from Brazileirao because in the next international break (which we dont have because it does not stop the games), he will only call abroad players (since it will be in its very important final weeks).

Since it was friendlies vs Iraq and Japan, nobody gave a damm.

4th: Italy has no money to pay Brazil's wage right now.

BACK TO PAULINHO THOUGH.

1- Dude, we all know the official name is "Campeonato Brasileiro Série A". So Brazilian Serie A is a very good name for it.

http://www.cbf.com.b...ro/serie-a/2012

4- Well, this is not true. Players in Italy still get more money, and we all know that in Brazil a player stays 2 or 3 months without seeing the color of the money. Seedorf is getting a lot of money, but it seems Botafogo is struggling to pay him, and while his wages are huge, the rest of the team get muuuuuch more less.

Brazilian league is underrated, I agree. I have to tell you one thing, 3 years ago when knobody outside Brazil knew who Neymar was, in this forum people were saying Lukaku was way better than him, well, because he was scoring thousands of goals in belgian league.

Brazilia league is better than Belgian, Dutch or even than Portuguese League (Porto and Benfica aside), but in terms of the quality of the players we have here. But brazilian legue is full of anachronisms, 98% of our managers are outdated. They really suck. Its very common in Brazilian Serie A a team with 3 CB, or 3 DM, sometimes we have a team with 3 CB and 3 DM at the same time.

Its not only in Série A, if you go to watch matches of young boys you will realize a lot of line-ups with 3 CBs, 3 DMs, and sometimes both. We also have a lot of guys in the wings running, running and running. Guys that run a lot, but cant mark, cant cross, and cant score goals.

Another problem is the referee, is very common in Brazil a match with 40/50 fouls. It means, one foul in 2 minutes. Its not because the players are violent, but because the referees are stupid.

Luiz Felipe Scolari stayed almost 2 years at Palmeiras, and he did a pretty awful job, but he was a top 10 coach in terms of wages, and many people still think he is a genius. Brazil still needs a lot of professionalism in terms of football.

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1- Dude, we all know the official name is "Campeonato Brasileiro Série A". So Brazilian Serie A is a very good name for it.

http://www.cbf.com.b...ro/serie-a/2012

4- Well, this is not true. Players in Italy still get more money, and we all know that in Brazil a player stays 2 or 3 months without seeing the color of the money. Seedorf is getting a lot of money, but it seems Botafogo is struggling to pay him, and while his wages are huge, the rest of the team get muuuuuch more less.

Brazilian league is underrated, I agree. I have to tell you one thing, 3 years ago when knobody outside Brazil knew who Neymar was, in this forum people were saying Lukaku was way better than him, well, because he was scoring thousands of goals in belgian league.

Brazilia league is better than Belgian, Dutch or even than Portuguese League (Porto and Benfica aside), but in terms of the quality of the players we have here. But brazilian legue is full of anachronisms, 98% of our managers are outdated. They really suck. Its very common in Brazilian Serie A a team with 3 CB, or 3 DM, sometimes we have a team with 3 CB and 3 DM at the same time.

Its not only in Série A, if you go to watch matches of young boys you will realize a lot of line-ups with 3 CBs, 3 DMs, and sometimes both.

Another problem is the referee, is very common in Brazil a match with 40/50 fouls. It means, one foul in 2 minutes. Its not because the players are violent, but because the referees are stupid.

Luiz Felipe Scolari stayed almost 2 years at Palmeiras, and he did a pretty awful job, but he was a top 10 coach in terms of wages, and many people still think he is a genius. Brazil still needs a lot of professionalism in terms of football.

I couldn't have said it better. Brazilian referees really piss me off. Brazilian coaches are the only thing that can overcome brazilian referees in that regard, they're AWFULLY bad. No kidding, I think I would be a better coach than many I've seen in top brazilian teams.

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1- Dude, we all know the official name is "Campeonato Brasileiro Série A". So Brazilian Serie A is a very good name for it.

http://www.cbf.com.b...ro/serie-a/2012

4- Well, this is not true. Players in Italy still get more money, and we all know that in Brazil a player stays 2 or 3 months without seeing the color of the money. Seedorf is getting a lot of money, but it seems Botafogo is struggling to pay him, and while his wages are huge, the rest of the team get muuuuuch more less.

Brazilian league is underrated, I agree. I have to tell you one thing, 3 years ago when knobody outside Brazil knew who Neymar was, in this forum people were saying Lukaku was way better than him, well, because he was scoring thousands of goals in belgian league.

Brazilia league is better than Belgian, Dutch or even than Portuguese League (Porto and Benfica aside), but in terms of the quality of the players we have here. But brazilian legue is full of anachronisms, 98% of our managers are outdated. They really suck. Its very common in Brazilian Serie A a team with 3 CB, or 3 DM, sometimes we have a team with 3 CB and 3 DM at the same time.

Its not only in Série A, if you go to watch matches of young boys you will realize a lot of line-ups with 3 CBs, 3 DMs, and sometimes both. We also have a lot of guys in the wings running, running and running. Guys that run a lot, but cant mark, cant cross, and cant score goals.

Another problem is the referee, is very common in Brazil a match with 40/50 fouls. It means, one foul in 2 minutes. Its not because the players are violent, but because the referees are stupid.

Luiz Felipe Scolari stayed almost 2 years at Palmeiras, and he did a pretty awful job, but he was a top 10 coach in terms of wages, and many people still think he is a genius. Brazil still needs a lot of professionalism in terms of football.

I agree with everything, but I never said it was otherwise. I said it is fairly close to Italian quality right now. I explict said the external factors were/are absurd.

One thing though....Players do gain a lot. Trust me, my father is a "Conselheiro" of Palmeiras. The wages are big. The problem is the media usually only point out the very top players and then people think the other players get 50k or so. I could list the wage list of every Palmeiras player, it is highly unethical though. I also know I am talking about a probably top 6, 7 or 8 team budget...

Another aspect, I did not say Campeonato Brasileiro Serie A is wrong, it just irritates me, it is an awfully stupid name. Serie A was first used as an internal divison for Clube dos 13. Now, it is the name used for CBF. The official name (CNPJ) is Campeonato Brasileiro Petrobras or Brasileirao Petrobras. It is only 1 year old, so people are not used to it. The only thing I did was asked for him not use it. I was a bit rude I must say, sorry.

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LET ME JUST CLEAR SOMETHINGS:

1: All that was said about ref, coachs, directors, organization, etc, is 100% true. Brazileirao is a shity league and we all know (Henrique and Dionsa). However, you cant claim the refs, coachs and organization are the worst in the world. They are beyond crap though...

2: Italy, 2 years ago, could not even be mentioned in this comparison. The gap was huge. It was just lunatic.

3: Italy is in free fall, externally (scandal, finacial crisys, empty stadiums, etc) and internally (drastic loss of quality).

4: As of quality I rank both league teams as the following - 1(Juve and Napoli), 2(Top Br Teams), 3(Milan, Inter, Udinese), 4(Rest of Italy), 5(Rest of Br). IMO

5: Players in Brazil are immensily underrated.

6: The wages are indeed huge. I bet any Italian Club besides Milan, Inter, Juve and Napoli would not make top5 of money spend on wages in Brazil.

7: I do not support any team in Brazil. I am in theory Palmeirense, but since I dont see a bright future for our beloved football, I just gave up and really dont care.

EDIT: Milan and Inter IF are better than Top Brazilian Teams.

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LET ME JUST CLEAR SOMETHINGS:

1: All that was said about ref, coachs, directors, organization, etc, is 100% true. Brazileirao is a shity league and we all know (Henrique and Dionsa). However, you cant claim the refs, coachs and organization are the worst in the world. They are beyond crap though...

2: Italy, 2 years ago, could not even be mentioned in this comparison. The gap was huge. It was just lunatic.

3: Italy is in free fall, externally (scandal, finacial crisys, empty stadiums, etc) and internally (drastic loss of quality).

4: As of quality I rank both league teams as the following - 1(Juve and Napoli), 2(Top Br Teams), 3(Milan, Inter, Udinese), 4(Rest of Italy), 5(Rest of Br). IMO

5: Players in Brazil are immensily underrated.

Inter Milan isn't that bad. They got a good squad, young talented manager & one of Italy's better youth academies. They are just going through a transition period.

Anyway, back to Paulinho...if Corinthians want to sell him, hopefully we get him for the right price.

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Sometimes i think you're just making these names up and trying to catch people out. Maybe we'll get Jamesinho, Royinho and Lukinho. Robinho snubbed us a few years back and now it's Paulinho! Maybe we should just buy a whole Brazil team and register a team in the Liga do Brasil. If we are gonna be signing more Brazilian stars of the future, it won't be til at least the summer. Neymar could happen, the time seems right for next summer but we can't keep spending big on Brazilians.

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