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Vybz Kartel

What is the purpose of youth team if players are not given a chance?

Started by Vybz Kartel,

23 posts in this topic

I was reading an article recently on the Daily Mail on how teams have been doin in terms of producing 1st team players from their academy. We are a disgrace when it comes to this part to be honest, I dont believe in that crap that our youth players are not good enough, Look at Liverpool (I really despise them by the way) they have promoted some youth players and look at the reward now they are almost getting back into the the champions league without spending too much. Surely Josh Mccheran is more talented than Henderson or even Sterling its just a lack of opportunity. I dont believe tht crap tht he is weak, he was arguably one of our better midfielders when Carlo gave him a chance, he did not look at all out of place. Arsenal have always had at least 2 players from their academy in the first team who are decent, Betrand is better than Gibbs IMO but was never given a proper chance. We have some exciting talent coming from our academy at the moment, who I am really excited abt (Ruben Loftus Cheek for example) he is one of the most technically gifted kids I have seen for a while, I am sure if he was at Arsenal he would be knocking at the 1st team door if not already in the first team because from what I have seen from him he is way better than Wilshere or any of the those mids Arsenal have.

Dont get me wrong I want success on the pitch and I know we can strike a balance between promoting the youth and maintaing a winning team, just look at Barca(I hate them too) they buy expensive players but at the same time promote players from within their academy( players like Pedro, Tello, Batra just to name a few are decent options to come of the bench who they didnt pay a cent for) We have a lot of good players in our youth team who would be better options than some of the avarage players we have in the first team who are on big wages, Lewis Baker or Nat Chalobah can def feel in for Mikel IMO or Essien earlier on in the season. Even Pat Bamford, so much potential would rather have had him on the bench than keep Demba Ba in the squad who is on 80k a week. look at Kalas for example why has he not been given a chance in the cup games against weaker opposition?? Would rather he play and rest the first choices, if you think he is not good enough then sell him dont keep him on the bench all season. Would rather we lose cup games with youth players gettin a chance than losing with first team players who then go on to suffer from fatigue or worse of injury, surely he cant be bad against Derby or Swindon. At least he is still to reach his peak and would offer the same things Ba ia offering or maybe even better but for a lot cheaper. His enthsiusim would probably make him a great player. The one who hurts me the most is Sturridge, the kid was not given a proper chance even when Torres was our only striker, he always wanted to prove himself when he came on the pitch thats why he was selfish at times but look at everytime a manager showed confidence in him he produced, he scored 13 goals for AVB if i am not mistaken from the wing because he trusted him, just imagine if we had shown a little faith or trust in him?? He would have been a decent 15-20 goal second striker for us without spending a penny.

Sometimes what players need is trust and I feel that we dont afford that to our youth players which I feel has to change, if given the chance players become good as we have seen in the case of sterling, sturridge, gibbs wilshere, shaw jst to name a few frpm other teams. JT was given a chance when he was a youth and got better from palying with better players like Le Bouf and Desaily which our youth players can also do. Sorry for going back to Sterling as an example again, but playing with Suarez has revolutionised his game and he has certanily improved, why cant our players do the same?? Also I dont believe in the notion that our expectations are higher than Liverpool. Barca has more pressure to produce than we will ever be in but they still get to promote their youth players into the team. Another advantage to promoting youth is they actaully play for the badge, which I feel lacks with some of the players we buy, just look at JT the way he plays his heart out for the team, I would never expect to see that from Marko Marin or Demba Ba for example not that I am questioning their commitment at all.

My advise to Mou and the board would be reduce the loans by 50% and start promoting good enough players for average players. It is a more sustainable business model. sorry for some of the bad grammer along the way was typing really fast and im too lazy to correct some of it lol :yawn:

zolayes likes this

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The lack of paragraphing hurt my head so I didn't read it, but to answer your thread title...

If a players good enough for the first team they will play, thus far we have seen very little players go on and succeed at high levels. The only ones that come to mind are Matic and Sturridge, both of which were given chances and didn't really take them. Albeit Sturridge was out of position, but still...

The quick turn around of managers also doesn't help development as 1 manager might see potential whereas another may not which will hinder progress.

The main purpose of the youth team is obviously to try and get a player out of it who is good enough for the first team. Failing this make profit. The youth are an investment, we buy them young and cheap, train them up, loan them out and get them recognised and then sell for profit. This is going to help us massively with financial fair play, hence the recent big investments and high loan out numbers.

In order to be a top European club who consistently challenge for trophies we need to always have a very strong starting 11, this sets very high standards for the youth and if they show they are up to the standards we will give them a chance, if they take that chance they will keep their place. It's as simple as that. We just can't potentially lose games in order to nurture youth.

Although our youth system seems illogical and backwards, it is actually very professionally set up and will really help us out in the future.

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A quick response, might expand later.

There are two times when you can integrate youth in my opinion.

1. Everything's gone to shit, so why the fuck not? Low expectations so throw in some youngsters because it can't get any worse.

e.g. what we should've done last year, Arsenal every year since 2006.

2. You have a fantastic foundation so you can carry a young player and cover their inexperience.

e.g. hopefully where we'll be next year, Barcelona since 2011, Bayern now.

We're not in either stage, we're still building the spine of the team and when we have that you can throw in a youngster.

Vybz Kartel, Viper22 and kellzfresh like this

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The lack of paragraphing hurt my head so I didn't read it, but to answer your thread title...

If a players good enough for the first team they will play, thus far we have seen very little players go on and succeed at high levels. The only ones that come to mind are Matic and Sturridge, both of which were given chances and didn't really take them. Albeit Sturridge was out of position, but still...

The quick turn around of managers also doesn't help development as 1 manager might see potential whereas another may not which will hinder progress.

The main purpose of the youth team is obviously to try and get a player out of it who is good enough for the first team. Failing this make profit. The youth are an investment, we buy them young and cheap, train them up, loan them out and get them recognised and then sell for profit. This is going to help us massively with financial fair play, hence the recent big investments and high loan out numbers.

In order to be a top European club who consistently challenge for trophies we need to always have a very strong starting 11, this sets very high standards for the youth and if they show they are up to the standards we will give them a chance, if they take that chance they will keep their place. It's as simple as that. We just can't potentially lose games in order to nurture youth.

Although our youth system seems illogical and backwards, it is actually very professionally set up and will really help us out in the future.

Hahaha fixed it lol

We Hate Scouse likes this

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The lack of paragraphing hurt my head so I didn't read it, but to answer your thread title...

If a players good enough for the first team they will play, thus far we have seen very little players go on and succeed at high levels. The only ones that come to mind are Matic and Sturridge, both of which were given chances and didn't really take them. Albeit Sturridge was out of position, but still...

The quick turn around of managers also doesn't help development as 1 manager might see potential whereas another may not which will hinder progress.

The main purpose of the youth team is obviously to try and get a player out of it who is good enough for the first team. Failing this make profit. The youth are an investment, we buy them young and cheap, train them up, loan them out and get them recognised and then sell for profit. This is going to help us massively with financial fair play, hence the recent big investments and high loan out numbers.

In order to be a top European club who consistently challenge for trophies we need to always have a very strong starting 11, this sets very high standards for the youth and if they show they are up to the standards we will give them a chance, if they take that chance they will keep their place. It's as simple as that. We just can't potentially lose games in order to nurture youth.

Although our youth system seems illogical and backwards, it is actually very professionally set up and will really help us out in the future.

I totally get that we have to be competitive, but what I do not get is keeping 80k a week Demba Ba in the squad who is average instead of bloding in someone like Bamford who would give us the same qualities if not better for way less money(ie he has age and potential on his side) I don't mind them seeing them on the bench neing given a chance ahead of some of the average players that we have carried over the years who I feel the youth players would be better than. Foe example Essien earlier on in the season, surely Chalobah or Josh would have done way better than what he was offering us

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I totally get that we have to be competitive, but what I do not get is keeping 80k a week Demba Ba in the squad who is average instead of bloding in someone like Bamford who would give us the same qualities if not better for way less money(ie he has age and potential on his side) I don't mind them seeing them on the bench neing given a chance ahead of some of the average players that we have carried over the years who I feel the youth players would be better than. Foe example Essien earlier on in the season, surely Chalobah or Josh would have done way better than what he was offering us

At the beginning of the season Bamfords level was League 1, no one expected him to blossom like he has. He's much better playing week in, week out on loan rather than playing 5 games in a season here. Same goes for the other 2 really.

Viper22, The Skipper, Stats and 1 other like this

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At the beginning of the season Bamfords level was League 1, no one expected him to blossom like he has. He's much better playing week in, week out on loan rather than playing 5 games in a season here. Same goes for the other 2 really.

We dont have to give them 5 games a season to be honest, they can be our first sub, start games like Norwich or even break into the team if a 1st team player is of form, like Oscar right now. Look at Kalas's example I believe we shld have played him in some cup games so as to rest some of the first choice players, If you think his not good enough to play against Derby or Swindon then sell him IMO, look at Sterling he used to be the first sub in the Lpool team but he broke into the 1st team I believe some of our youth are just as or even more talnted than him they jst lack trust from the manager which is unfortunate. Really there is no argument for youth players not bein given game time (more than 5 games considering we are always challenging in all competitions and usually play over 50 games a season)

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Window dressing, pure and simple.

Since the inception of the Premiership, clubs are primarily owned by foreign businessmen who want a return on their cash. They are on an ego trip or are laundering. Very ocassionally an exceptional young player comes through, but that is far and away the exception. Owners, needing their brand to be successful will invariably buy a ready made product off the shelf, in the pursuit of silverware, and to keep and grow the worldwide audience of TV fans.

Makes me laugh and cry all the romantic youth rubbish. Get real, it is capitalism, pure and simple, nothing else.

Kieran., zolayes, Rambo and 1 other like this

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Window dressing, pure and simple.

Since the inception of the Premiership, clubs are primarily owned by foreign businessmen who want a return on their cash. They are on an ego trip or are laundering. Very ocassionally an exceptional young player comes through, but that is far and away the exception. Owners, needing their brand to be successful will invariably buy a ready made product off the shelf, in the pursuit of silverware, and to keep and grow the worldwide audience of TV fans.

Makes me laugh and cry all the romantic youth rubbish. Get real, it is capitalism, pure and simple, nothing else.

I am not saying go all out Southampton but surely some of our youth players are better than the average players on high wages that we carry, for example Demba Ba, he is on 80k a week and barely features surely we would make more jersey sales from success story of one of our own youth players than HIm(by the way he replaced Sturridge) whom IMO is way better than him just needed a chance. His not the only average player we have carried over the years,

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A quick response, might expand later.

02

There are two times when you can integrate youth in my opinion.

02

1. Everything's gone to shit, so why the fuck not? Low expectations so throw in some youngsters because it can't get any worse.02

02

e.g. what we should've done last year, Arsenal every year since 2006.

02

2. You have a fantastic foundation so you can carry a young player and cover their inexperience.

02

e.g. hopefully where we'll be next year, Barcelona since 2011, Bayern now.

02

We're not in either stage, we're still building the spine of the team and when we have that you can throw in a youngster.

Fuckin spot on!!

We've been changing too many managers, the pressure to win was damn high. Even madrid who were one of the best before suffered with this manager changing.

Now we have a manager for years(finally) we can get our spine next season, solidify our style of play in the next preseason, and begin to throw in our youth players when we are winning 3-0 like barcelona do.

If we don't wait for them to go on loan and play games and start forcing them now when we haven't even gotten better as a team, imagine bamford having minimal games like Ba is having. I would cry.

Patience is key now, the most important thing is to stick with the manager for a long time, then he will see the youth players who fit our style of play to bring in.

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Fuckin spot on!!

We've been changing too many managers, the pressure to win was damn high. Even madrid who were one of the best before suffered with this manager changing.

Now we have a manager for years(finally) we can get our spine next season, solidify our style of play in the next preseason, and begin to throw in our youth players when we are winning 3-0 like barcelona do.

If we don't wait for them to go on loan and play games and start forcing them now when we haven't even gotten better as a team, imagine bamford having minimal games like Ba is having. I would cry.

Patience is key now, the most important thing is to stick with the manager for a long time, then he will see the youth players who fit our style of play to bring in.

Hopefully Mou is there for the long term because with FFP we will need to produce a player or 2 every 3 years to help supplement our team.

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Fuckin spot on!!

We've been changing too many managers, the pressure to win was damn high. Even madrid who were one of the best before suffered with this manager changing.

Now we have a manager for years(finally) we can get our spine next season, solidify our style of play in the next preseason, and begin to throw in our youth players when we are winning 3-0 like barcelona do.

If we don't wait for them to go on loan and play games and start forcing them now when we haven't even gotten better as a team, imagine bamford having minimal games like Ba is having. I would cry.

Patience is key now, the most important thing is to stick with the manager for a long time, then he will see the youth players who fit our style of play to bring in.

Even though I agree that we need to stick with the manager for a long time....I just don't see Mourinho as the type of manager who will fully utilise our academy.

Youth players need support once they make the step up to the first team...and that won't happen at Chelsea.

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Even though I agree that we need to stick with the manager for a long time....I just don't see Mourinho as the type of manager who will fully utilise our academy.

Youth players need support once they make the step up to the first team...and that won't happen at Chelsea.

Its sad really because we have some really good players on our books who just need tht trust from the manager to kick start their career, I can bet u Sterling would not be playin in the 1st team had he been at CFC, its a culture we need to change to be honest.

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Even though I agree that we need to stick with the manager for a long time....I just don't see Mourinho as the type of manager who will fully utilise our academy.

Youth players need support once they make the step up to the first team...and that won't happen at Chelsea.

I know mourinho is not wenger level in bringing through youth, but I know part of the challenge he wants to do here includes youth

Mou is someone that plays people if they are better, no matter their age. If we had a varane in our youth team now, he would be the first name on the team sheet.

When we should judge him on this is next season, because now the players have an idea of who he likes (quick, strong, and hardwork)

He will look for these qualities from our youth players and pick them after we offload some players like ba and co occupying space in the squad roster.

Mou said before that he always liked 22 players in the squad, leaving space for youth. But this season we had too many players at the beginning so it made him have to play pple on the bench instead of youth players.

That will change next season hopefully

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Window dressing, pure and simple.

Since the inception of the Premiership, clubs are primarily owned by foreign businessmen who want a return on their cash. They are on an ego trip or are laundering. Very ocassionally an exceptional young player comes through, but that is far and away the exception. Owners, needing their brand to be successful will invariably buy a ready made product off the shelf, in the pursuit of silverware, and to keep and grow the worldwide audience of TV fans.

Makes me laugh and cry all the romantic youth rubbish. Get real, it is capitalism, pure and simple, nothing else.

True, but what better way to make money than vertical integration? If you control the production line then you give yourself an advantage. There's nothing wrong with investing in youth but the production line in this country is inherently broken at the point between a player being too good for the youth teams and not quite good enough for the first team.

Ideally what you'd have are proper B teams playing in the lower leagues but instead we have to go the loan route.

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All boils down to managerial instability.

We had AVB who rated Sturridge and gave him many chances, then comes RDM and puts Sturridge out for Torres.

Likewise Benitez.

Matic, it was good he left, cause had he stayed with all these managers he would have never gotten to the level he's at now.

Now that we have a manager that will stay for a long time we should do better in this.

This season, well I never expected to have any youth in the first season as it was going to be tough.

But If by the third season of Mourinho we have no progress in this department then I will be very disappointed.

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when I first joined the Forum Esk Weston gave full updates and vids of all Youth games .. He was very optimistic of players who would make our team .

He filled me with hope ,,, That has long vanished ,, As someone said it is just Window Dressing ,

as to it being profit making ,, sounds like one of the Banks that ruined the Worlds Economy ... There is no way it is making a profit .

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I actually reckon we will see more promotion under Jose.

Now i fully expect a response like, no we won't Jose is a youth hating maniac, well actually he isn't.

We had Carvalho, Terry and Gallas all in the peak off their powers yet Huth still got 38 games over 2 years. He started a teenage Mikel in the FA Cup final and brought on Scott Sinclair in a title decider.

When our team is more complete we will see the best offthe youth players given some minutes to build on.

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You need a good foundation before you start experimenting with youth. With all the managerial changes, playing style changes, we just haven't had that. Once that returns under Mou, I'm sure you'll start seeing a few youngsters breaking through.

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You need a good foundation before you start experimenting with youth. With all the managerial changes, playing style changes, we just haven't had that. Once that returns under Mou, I'm sure you'll start seeing a few youngsters breaking through.

we can start of by trimming the deadwood and average players like demba Ba and then promoting youth players into those players
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