Nemanja Matic

[chelseafan26 293]

9 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

No.

Hardly something to argue about.

Anyways, people dont want to deal with stats (as said by someone in the previous page), neither do they want to accept the opinions of reputed pundits and legendary players. Hard to argue with such a lot.

 All I can say is that Matic is a world class. One of the 3 we have in this squad apart from costa and hazard. We, as a Club, are in one of the worst moments in the Roman history and something that a lot of the fans are not accustomed to. Hardly a surprise that there are such over the top opinions all around.

[Gilvorak 3,734]

1 hour ago, ulvhedin said:

Kroos a great DM???

He plays that role well for Germany and Madrid.

[ulvhedin 471]

1 hour ago, Gilvorak said:

He plays that role well for Germany and Madrid.

Let's agree to disagree here, I think these teams were ok defensively because of great offense

And right now I don't know about Germany, but in Madrid Kroos is definitely not great. On the other hand whole Madrid team is mess right now

[Peace. 4,352]

On 5/2/2016 at 1:39 AM, Robguima said:

Difficult to discuss your disagreement with a point I did not make.

Did I say Hiddink told Matic to run around like a headless chicken? What would happen if you ask Mikel to be a box-to-box CM? Or if you asked Fabregas to play DM? Get the point?

He was asked to do something he is not capable of; only to fit a DM whose role has to be explained over an over again: please check Mikel's *defensive* numbers in context of his "role" in the team. Or go ahead and check his attacking numbers then... 

Now if are telling me that Matic is incapable of playing DM I'd point you to tons of evidence showing otherwise. I know we don't like those around here as they come against colorful ideas and analogies.

Of course Matic is slow, as is Mikel. However, the evidence, both market value as well as stats, tell the story I choose to buy. If you buy something different, then so be it.

 

 

The one who is talking about something that was not mentioned is you, not me. Why did you have to throw Mikel into the debate ? The argument was never a Matic-Mikel comparison but it was strictly focused on Magic and more specifically on one aspect : is he a headless chicken or not. Leave Mikel alone as he has nothing to do with Matic's intrinsic qualities and capabilities. And anyway, do you think that a player that plays 'at a very high level [,,,] and very consistently at that' needs to be compared to a distinctly average player in order to look good ?

No, you did not say that Hiddink asked Matic to run around like a headless chicken, nor did I say you did. However, you did say that '[he is] roaming around like a headless chicken because that's his role when sitting next to Mikel'. You are explicitly talking — or writing — about a 'role'. And to illustrate the absurdity of such a notion, I did use an unsophisticated and imaginary example : a situation where a manager tells his player to play the 'headless chicken' role, and what is his counterpart, that is the 'intelligent player' role. Of course it never happens, because such roles do not exist. And if they do not exist, this is because you either are intelligent or not — this is a quality, not a function. The role you probably are talking about is the role of the player that will harass the opponent or something along the lines. On the one hand, you will have players that will perform their role efficiently and properly because they have the ability to read the game or have a good sense of positioning ; on the second hand, you will have players that will perform the role in an efficient way and in a disorderly way because they do not possess such qualities and they ultimately have to run after the ball and/or the opponent. Matic belongs to the second category because he precisely does not possess these qualities.

You can talk about numbers and stats all you want, but you are missing the point. I was not talking about his end-product — in short, is he good or not —, or even if he is capable of playing as a DM, but whether he is a headless-chicken or not. As I have suggested in my previous comment, you can have good headless-chickens, too. It was the case with Ramires. The Brazilian was running around like a headless-chicken because he merely did not have a clue of what was going around. Yet he was good at this because he was so fast he could easily catch up his opponent ; and once this opponent was caught up, Ramires like a bull would recklessly ram him and knock him down. As I have also explained in my previous comment, back at the time Matic was a 'good' headless-chicken because the team was defending deeply and conservatively and with all the players committed to an important defensive role (you can also argue that there were four center-backs as Azpilicueta wa more often next to Terry than in offense). As a matter of fact, his lack of vision and of sense of positioning was negated because there was simply little space to run and thus — grosso modo — he only had to extend his leg to win back the ball or to break down the opponent's offensive. Now things are different and our team is less compact, which means he has to run — though as he is slow and cannot read the game, he is a bad headless-chicken. In both situations, Matic remains a headless-chicken. The only difference is that one situation negates his limitations — nay glorifies his qualities, that is his long legs and his standing-tackles — while the other stresses out the very same limitations.

And this is exactly what would happen if, as you suggest, Mikel was playing as a box-to-box and Fabregas as a DM. Such positions would highlight these two players' deficiencies while negating their qualities. In conclusion, Matic does not roam around like a headless chicken because of Mikel or anyone else, but because he is kind of forced to do so as he has none awareness of positioning and is not good at reading the game, which is highlighted by the new organisation of the team.

[mccg 1,528]

 

Hopefully in the summer we get a world class all round CM ...again ffs

[robsblubot 3,205]

24 minutes ago, Peace. said:

 

The one who is talking about something that was not mentioned is you, not me. Why did you have to throw Mikel into the debate ? The argument was never a Matic-Mikel comparison but it was strictly focused on Magic and more specifically on one aspect : is he a headless chicken or not. Leave Mikel alone as he has nothing to do with Matic's intrinsic qualities and capabilities. And anyway, do you think that a player that plays 'at a very high level [,,,] and very consistently at that' needs to be compared to a distinctly average player in order to look good ?

No, you did not say that Hiddink asked Matic to run around like a headless chicken, nor did I say you did. However, you did say that '[he is] roaming around like a headless chicken because that's his role when sitting next to Mikel'. You are explicitly talking — or writing — about a 'role'. And to illustrate the absurdity of such a notion, I did use an unsophisticated and imaginary example : a situation where a manager tells his player to play the 'headless chicken' role, and what is his counterpart, that is the 'intelligent player' role. Of course it never happens, because such roles do not exist. And if they do not exist, this is because you either are intelligent or not — this is a quality, not a function. The role you probably are talking about is the role of the player that will harass the opponent or something along the lines. On the one hand, you will have players that will perform their role efficiently and properly because they have the ability to read the game or have a good sense of positioning ; on the second hand, you will have players that will perform the role in an efficient way and in a disorderly way because they do not possess such qualities and they ultimately have to run after the ball and/or the opponent. Matic belongs to the second category because he precisely does not possess these qualities.

You can talk about numbers and stats all you want, but you are missing the point. I was not talking about his end-product — in short, is he good or not —, or even if he is capable of playing as a DM, but whether he is a headless-chicken or not. As I have suggested in my previous comment, you can have good headless-chickens, too. It was the case with Ramires. The Brazilian was running around like a headless-chicken because he merely did not have a clue of what was going around. Yet he was good at this because he was so fast he could easily catch up his opponent ; and once this opponent was caught up, Ramires like a bull would recklessly ram him and knock him down. As I have also explained in my previous comment, back at the time Matic was a 'good' headless-chicken because the team was defending deeply and conservatively and with all the players committed to an important defensive role (you can also argue that there were four center-backs as Azpilicueta wa more often next to Terry than in offense). As a matter of fact, his lack of vision and of sense of positioning was negated because there was simply little space to run and thus — grosso modo — he only had to extend his leg to win back the ball or to break down the opponent's offensive. Now things are different and our team is less compact, which means he has to run — though as he is slow and cannot read the game, he is a bad headless-chicken. In both situations, Matic remains a headless-chicken. The only difference is that one situation negates his limitations — nay glorifies his qualities, that is his long legs and his standing-tackles — while the other stresses out the very same limitations.

And this is exactly what would happen if, as you suggest, Mikel was playing as a box-to-box and Fabregas as a DM. Such positions would highlight these two players' deficiencies while negating their qualities. In conclusion, Matic does not roam around like a headless chicken because of Mikel or anyone else, but because he is kind of forced to do so as he has none awareness of positioning and is not good at reading the game, which is highlighted by the new organisation of the team.

"because that's his role "

that was also your conclusion.

Point taken that you feel Matic was always a headless chicken - I disagree. I think his positioning is indeed his weaknesses - all players have weaknesses) however, the team's overall poor form is exposing matic's (and other players) deficiencies.

Concerning Mikel, I find it pretty incredible that people do not see that Mikel affects Matic directly as Mikel sits - not very mobile anyway.

3 variables this season/lately:

a Mikel starting next to Matic - changing Matic's role a bit.

b team's overall poor form.

c matic's poor form

And yet you and others here focus exclusively on Matic's poor form - even though football is a team game. 

So, agreeing to disagree again here.

[LAM09 6,535]

Iva's decline is one thing, but his is unbelievable. Was last season a one off or is he badly out of form?

[Stats 6,980]

20 hours ago, chelseafan26 said:

WOW. Talk about over-reacting and exaggerating.

I know matic has been well below his standards but that makes him an average player? I guess, then hazard is another "average" player too because he has been horrendous.

Matic is without a doubt one of the best DMs in the world. One average season will not change that specially when the whole team has been so poor. He was "the" reason for us to be so ruthless last season. Anyone discounting these facts needs a reality check

That is the fickle football world for you. Last season majority of people on here and around would have said Ozil is not fit enough to lace Silva's boots now all of a sudden he is finally having a quality season and people on here and other forums are claiming Ozil is the best no.10 in the world. I mean it is not a ludicrous claim but last season people would have laughed at that. Matic has been below-par this season but if people can't see that he is just having a rare bad season then it really shows the fickle nature of football fans. Matic is a quality player who is having a poor season. Just like Hazard. Anyone who says Matic is average might as well say Hazard is too then if they are basing that on same logic.

New manager next season combined with star additions and when we start dominating games again, we will see the best of Matic. I guarantee he will prove his critics wrong.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,733]

Will be very interested in seeing what happens with him under Conte.

[bababoom 4,478]

Hope the rumours are true about him leaving in the summer, lost cause. 

[manpe 10,855]

He hasn't shown signs of regaining form while everybody else has. He was so bad that I feel we are defensively more solid with Fabregas and Mikel than Mikel and Matic.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

He looks slow and unfit. Really should make him play with the u21s to try and gain more fitness, hes been dreadful, never looked sharp at any point in this season and if playing with the u21s can't make him work harder to regain his form and fitness then what will? Mikel isn't perhaps as mobile but he reads the game better and has to start over Matic to he regains a bit of what he had last season. 

[Blue-in-me-Veins 4,067]

How is he starting over RLC? 

Completely fell off a cliff he has. 

[the wes 7,212]

Matic needs to improve in a chelsea shirt or else i could see him get sold in the summer 

[bellion 170]

His form is very worrying.  No improvement whatsoever for the entire season.  Conte or whichever manager in line wouldn't like what he is seeing now and I could see him being sold this summer.  Even Mikel has picked up a bit of form.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Surprised our best and key player is performing so bad for this long now. 

Its not impossible that reason for our poor form is terrible form of Matic, afterall he was key player to our midfield and we all know how important role that is.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

On 02/03/2016 at 4:22 PM, BlueLyon said:

Surprised our best and key player is performing so bad for this long now. 

Its not impossible that reason for our poor form is terrible form of Matic, afterall he was key player to our midfield and we all know how important role that is.

I had no faith when Nemanja was here the first time. My assessment was that he was too fond of the floated pass which took too long to reach its target and that he wanted way too long on the ball. After he returned It looked to me that I was wrong. In truth however Nemanja's slump passed out of the realm of form a long time ago. With the odd exception, he has been poor, or worse, since Christmas 2014.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Dear Guus, if you're going to give him playing time on his current form ahead of RLC, at the very least don't start him at the same time as Oscar! I just can't handle them both at the same time...