Nemanja Matic

[Rhino's Skin 972]

no you said he was our best player in the 3 games you mentioned, and he wasnt.

well the problem is that he posted websites that gave Matic reasonable high marks and praise and used that as the argument.....and you if you wanted could go to other websites such as the Mail, Mirror etc etc and most probably dig out different marks and not so good comments about the same player in the same match.

My point being is that bringing media sports writers point of view into a debate of whether a player had a decent game or not is meaningless.

Why dont you both watch the said matches again in their entirety and rethink through your opinions based on what you see rather than what a sportswriter puts down because you are just going round in circles and its now a 'he said that, he said this' and misquoting all the time debate.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

well the problem is that he posted websites that gave Matic reasonable high marks and praise and used that as the argument.....and you if you wanted could go to other websites such as the Mail, Mirror etc etc and most probably dig out different marks and not so good comments about the same player in the same match.

My point being is that bringing media sports writers point of view into a debate of whether a player had a decent game or not is meaningless.

Why dont you both watch the said matches again in their entirety and rethink through your opinions based on what you see rather than what a sportswriter puts down because you are just going round in circles and its now a 'he said that, he said this' and misquoting all the time debate.

i dont know why you are telling me this, my opinion is from what i have seen with my own eyes this season, i havent used any sports site to check his ratings.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

i dont know why you are telling me this, my opinion is from what i have seen with my own eyes this season, i havent used any sports site to check his ratings.

because the matches were a little while ago and you called Matic 'awful'

The other poster disagreed and used media to back his point about Matic.

My suggestion to watch again because in all likelyhood you have actually forgotten parts of the match was for you both to re assess your opinions.

My opinion on Matic in the said matches is that he was not awful....but he wasnt our best player in a bad bunch either due to his lack of game management, etc. and thats me having been at the games and just rewatched them on playback over last few days

[Gilvorak 3,734]

Seems people think he's not bad because they hate Cesc and Ivanovic. So Mourinho's just randomly singling out a player he was beaming about in 2014 right? Playing awful for Serbia is just our imagination. It's far too easy to play through our midfield and Matic is the number one culprit for our woes no doubt about it.

[Oscar 441]

fernandinho is a toure - just not as good

meh. I get the analogy, but unlike Youre, Fernandinho has good workrate/stamina.

Well based on this season, not that well, especially against teams that press him. He is not as good as holding on to the ball as Verratti is and seems to be bullied of it more easily. It is because Verratti is a better defender as well and they have much better balance. In a 4-3-3 I think he would be quality. I don't mind him in the pivot for Saturday for instance because all they are going to do is sit back I assume but games where teams take it to us, with constant pressing he is a little more exposed.

As much as I rate him, if he played for us in the way we utilize Fabregas in the big games I think he would struggle. PSG play to his strengths while in big games we don't play to Fabregas strengths in big games.

Yeah, I never said they were similar players. My point was that PSG utilize him to his strengths while we only utilize Fabregas main strengths in games against much inferior teams. When we play teams with similar qualities like PSG, he is not played in his favoured position while Verratti is. Fabregas is a dictator, not a chaser.

I get you like him, I do to but stop overrating all the positions he can play in to an effective level. Yes, DM and CM he is comfortable in. If you played him consecutively in AM against good teams he would find it difficult to influence a game and you are not getting the best out of him.

He may have those traits that Fabregas does not but once again my point stands, you put him in no.10 in our position and he strugges. I recognise he has those aforementioned strenghts but like Fabregas the game would pass him by because you are putting a dictator in the no.10 role which means unless you have a like for like replacement you will struggle to get the ball. Verratti would be no difference to Fabregas although I do acknowledge your points that he has those abilities Fabregas does not. However can you imagine him playing a no.10 role for us with Matic and Mikel behind him. He would do all the chasing, put in tackles but the amount of times he touches the ball would be very limited becasue of the struggle we would have to keep possession.

[Stats 6,980]

meh. I get the analogy, but unlike Youre, Fernandinho has good workrate/stamina.

My point still stands. And those comments on Fabregas came during pre-season. I was not to know he was going to make such an awful start to the season and be exposed as poor defensively as he has done. Verratti is helped by the fact that he has players around him who are trained and comfortabel at keeping possession. We do not have that. And I am not sure why you have quoted so many of my posts. I stand by the same view. You put him in a CM role, I think he would do well. You play him in a 4-3-3 and have him as a CM he will excel. You have him as a no.10, then you are taking the best part of his game away from him and he would do a lot of running but like Fabregas they are going to struggle to influence games.

Furthermore, the way we played Fabregas against Arsenal was a way we utilized his strengths well because we allowed him to control play. City for instance, we had him playing double pivot yet we did not have any clue or aim on how to keep possession so you are wasting Fabregas and exploting his weaknesses.

[Oscar 441]

My point still stands. And those comments on Fabregas came during pre-season. I was not to know he was going to make such an awful start to the season and be exposed as poor defensively as he has done. Verratti is helped by the fact that he has players around him who are trained and comfortabel at keeping possession. We do not have that. And I am not sure why you have quoted so many of my posts. I stand by the same view. You put him in a CM role, I think he would do well. You play him in a 4-3-3 and have him as a CM he will excel. You have him as a no.10, then you are taking the best part of his game away from him and he would do a lot of running but like Fabregas they are going to struggle to influence games.

Furthermore, the way we played Fabregas against Arsenal was a way we utilized his strengths well because we allowed him to control play. City for instance, we had him playing double pivot yet we did not have any clue or aim on how to keep possession so you are wasting Fabregas and exploting his weaknesses.

Cesc hasn't been great since the start of 2015.

Verratti's attributes is what helps him, unless you think an aging Motta is such a huge upgrade from Matic. Verratti's individual abilities is what makes him able to play in those situations. There is a reason why Marco absolutely took on our team with ease in the champions league and did incredible against barca's midfield.

[robsblubot 3,205]

meh. I get the analogy, but unlike Youre, Fernandinho has good workrate/stamina.

Agreed, but I wasn't referring to that though - the role is the same: b2b

Because of Fernandinho's mobility and work rate that you've just referred to, he rarely sits like Matic does.

Role wise, Matic is a very different player than both Fernandos (my original point) while Toure is also a B2B unlike Matic, even though they are similar build wise.

just different angles and POVs.

It's debatable whether a team actually needs a Matic type of player these days. Like some say no top team has a mikel type of player these days. I still think Matic is versatile enough to be an important player when fit and in a working unit and is a lot better than both Fernandos especially Fernandinho - highly overrated player (myself included in the overrating initially).

[Muzchap 8,964]

4-4-1-1 is just another way of saying 4-2-3-1.

I see what you are saying - but I can't seem to get a balanced 4-3-3 formation right - always feels light

Two banks of 4 is what we need to be fair - 4-4-2 - is more what I had in mind over 4-2-3-1 - or maybe 4-5-1 that's essentially the formations I have been messing around with.

[manpe 10,855]

I see what you are saying - but I can't seem to get a balanced 4-3-3 formation right - always feels light

Two banks of 4 is what we need to be fair - 4-4-2 - is more what I had in mind over 4-2-3-1 - or maybe 4-5-1 that's essentially the formations I have been messing around with.

Finding a line-up for a classical 4-3-3 is much easier with our squad imo than to try to fit those players in any other formations.

...

Matic/Mikel

Oscar/Cesc - RLC/Ramires

Willian - Costa - Hazard

Basically the two CMs will be doing b2b duties, with one of them more aggressive in terms of running up and down and causing trouble on both ends and the other one taking more emphasis on building play a la Lampard.

[Muzchap 8,964]

Finding a line-up for a classical 4-3-3 is much easier with our squad imo than to try to fit those players in any other formations.

...

Matic/Mikel

Oscar/Cesc - RLC/Ramires

Willian - Costa - Hazard

Basically the two CMs will be doing b2b duties, with one of them more aggressive in terms of running up and down and causing trouble on both ends and the other one taking more emphasis on building play a la Lampard.

Yes but we always end up too narrow

Maybe that's because the FB's are not encouraged to overlap - but I hate our lack of width - it makes defending against us easy...

[manpe 10,855]

Maybe that's because the FB's are not encouraged to overlap - but I hate our lack of width - it makes defending against us easy...

Nail, meet head. Our wingers' inclination is to go central, we don't have touchline huggers in the team. Solution? I know it does not include Ivanovic or a right-footed left-back. I have always screamed and yelled for us to start employing full-backs properly to bring more options and width in attack, but no, apparently height and clumsiness are more valued by some.

Make no mistake, with our playmakerish wingers and non-fullbacks we will never be a team to fully employ width no matter what formation. We will rely on Fabregas to put in chipped passes over parked buses and Hazard to dribble the Chinese wall, because that's how we roll yo, and it worked for a few honeymoon months so obviously it will keep on working forever despite it not working at all anymore. Fuck logic.

[didierforever 7,349]

he has been "AWFUL".

and once again a certain poster has been made to look like a moron.

this is what happens when matic has a good midfield partner alongside him.

has absolutely bossed the mid so far. just waiting for rambo to be taken out and cesc the great to show his uselessness as a DLP again.

[Stats 6,980]

Complete boss tonight. When you have someone who can give you more protection, you see the best of him. Total beast and back to his best tonight. Was a brick wall!

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Finaly a good game from him. Expect him to improve from now on.

[Melanicus 5,208]

If only Ramries could upgrade his passing a little bit... Other than that Matic-Ramires partnership is perfect.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Brilliant!

[LAM09 6,535]

Fantastic showing!