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DavidEU

21. Nemanja Matic

Started by DavidEU,

3,586 posts in this topic

I do not think he has a future here next season as many reports state that Conte wants a different midfielder.

 

He should go to Italy. Serie A is perfect for a DM like him. 

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10 minutes ago, BoyBlue96 said:

 

 

He should go to Italy. Serie A is perfect for a DM like him. 

I totally agree with you the Serie A would suit matic down to the tee 

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3 hours ago, BoyBlue96 said:

I do not think he has a future here next season as many reports state that Conte wants a different midfielder.

 

He should go to Italy. Serie A is perfect for a DM like him. 

And who will be Kante's backup?

Posted this on the transfer thread:

Matic is not ideal in our current system, but we don't necessarily need to replace him, Conte could add an attacking midfield like James in a 3-5-2 with Hazard and Costa upfront, we would have the creativity we're lacking right now. People forget that while Matic is not the most skilled player ever, he is fundamental for the toughness of the team, and toughness is perhaps the symbol of the team, actually, is the symbol of Chelsea FC, since Mourinho first spell until CL's title. We don't play 11 low tricky players, we play the tall, strong and disciplined but not less talented players, of course we could use 1 our 2 lighter ones, but the profile must be kept.

People don't realize how hard is to find a good DM, and Matic is at least a great Kanté backup.

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On 19/02/2017 at 4:35 PM, Socur Toxanarosa said:

And who will be Kante's backup?

Posted this on the transfer thread:

Matic is not ideal in our current system, but we don't necessarily need to replace him, Conte could add an attacking midfield like James in a 3-5-2 with Hazard and Costa upfront, we would have the creativity we're lacking right now. People forget that while Matic is not the most skilled player ever, he is fundamental for the toughness of the team, and toughness is perhaps the symbol of the team, actually, is the symbol of Chelsea FC, since Mourinho first spell until CL's title. We don't play 11 low tricky players, we play the tall, strong and disciplined but not less talented players, of course we could use 1 our 2 lighter ones, but the profile must be kept.

People don't realize how hard is to find a good DM, and Matic is at least a great Kanté backup.

I totally disagree with this. I am not convinced that Nemanja makes a particularly strong defensive contribution, but whatever he offers in that regard is completely negated by his limitations when we are in possession.

Whatever quality of player we add further up the pitch, we will always be held back by a CM who is unable to add positive momentum to our play owing to a combination of chronic one-footedness, lack of technical quality, poor body control and inability to carry the ball.

Up to a dozen times every game Nemanja goes backwards when a better player would take us forward. This sometimes means lost opportunities, and sometimes costs goals. Clearly Antonio sees Nemanja as his best option currently. We urgently need to give the manager better ones.

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On 4/12/2016 at 11:02 PM, OhForAGreavsie said:

Kante is not the answer for us.

He is better than we have currently and so would make our squad stronger but he would not contribute to making our squad great.

 

On 2/19/2017 at 7:35 PM, Socur Toxanarosa said:

People don't realize how hard is to find a good DM.

Just trying to make you understand who you are dealing with here Socur Toxanara. Many people don't pay attention anymore when he says "we need a better..."

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1 hour ago, 11Drogba said:

 

Just trying to make you understand who you are dealing with here Socur Toxanara. Many people don't pay attention anymore when he says "we need a better..."

Selective twaddle. You've ignored the post, following Leicester's visit to Stamford Bridge last season, in which I said that I had changed my mind.  In any case, I'll gladly agree to a comparison of my player assessments versus yours.

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33 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

following Leicester's visit to Stamford Bridge last season, in which I said that I had changed my mind.

That was the last game of the season.:clap:

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57 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

That was the last game of the season.:clap:

Which nevertheless predates your jibe by more than eight months.I assume you are not claiming that you have never changed your mind about a player? I certainly have.

When Eden began to be linked I watched Lille a few times but caught him in one of his "low form" periods that we have since become accustomed to. I posted the opinion that he was clearly talented but that he wasn't producing anything very effective. Someone whose opinion I respect suggested that I should stick with it however. I did that and eventually saw a stunning display, after which I revised my view.

My change of mind about N'Golo came the first time I saw him live but that is not the case with Nemanja.  I didn't like him when he was linked, I didn't like him during his first spell, I was pleased with his contribution during the first few months after his return, but we have been watching him for two seasons now. There is no room to make new discoveries about Nemanja. He is what he is and his limitations are a problem. As I've said before, I'll be surprised and very disappointed if he is still starting for us after September 2nd.

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29 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

When Eden began to be linked I watched Lille a few times but caught him in one of his "low form" periods that we have since become accustomed to. I posted the opinion that he was clearly talented but that he wasn't producing anything very effective. Someone whose opinion I respect suggested that I should stick with it however. I did that and eventually saw a stunning display, after which I revised my view.

I don't think you got my point. Anyone even the best managers and scouts can be wrong about players. What you do is different. You mostly say we need a better player without even mentioning that better player. You don't want Matic as backup. That's fine, who would you like to see? Socar's whole point is that it is hard to find a good DM as a backup. Mention one or two names when you say "better players" and the discussions will be much more constructive I am sure.

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Theres been many months that Matic was hailed by everyone as the best DM in the league and he couldn't do anything wrong.

We know he lacks any real technical quality creative wise and his passing backwards and not being able to take the ball with him does wind me up but has he changed so much or are we looking at him differently?

I dont see Cescy and Kante on their own strong enough defensively but in a 3 man CM he would get the time/space he needs for his magic passes.

Or do we see Chalobah as any alternative right now? Hes quite creative and defensive. I would like us to try that option more.

Or as Conte lseems he likes to build a break from the back and get it up to the WB maybe utilize Luiz into a deep pocket playmaker/CB. Hes comfortable on the ball and can do more creative wise than boot it upfield trying to find a forward.

Just questions I ask myself when we play.

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7 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

I don't think you got my point. Anyone even the best managers and scouts can be wrong about players. What you do is different. You mostly say we need a better player without even mentioning that better player. You don't want Matic as backup. That's fine, who would you like to see? Socar's whole point is that it is hard to find a good DM as a backup. Mention one or two names when you say "better players" and the discussions will be much more constructive I am sure.

Diagnosis precedes cure but in any case there are many posts of mine in which I mention options I would like. More selective twaddle.

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23 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Diagnosis precedes cure but in any case there are many posts of mine in which I mention options I would like. More selective twaddle.

You could just repeat them here as Socur or anyone does not have to read all your posts. It is not a diagnosis, you are just refusing ideas without offering an alternative solution. 

Edit:Just curious, who did you have in mind when you wrote that Kante is not the answer for us?

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20 hours ago, 11Drogba said:

You could just repeat them here as Socur or anyone does not have to read all your posts. It is not a diagnosis, you are just refusing ideas without offering an alternative solution. 

Edit:Just curious, who did you have in mind when you wrote that Kante is not the answer for us?

I had done an earlier post, or perhaps posts, in which I had observed that N'Golo's passing was not outstanding and that, combined with the fear that we were stuck with Matic as one part of a then routine 3 man midfield, Kante was not at all what I felt we needed. As an expert in my posts you will know that I consistently argue that we need an excellent continuity player with energy in that role.

The opportunity to turn defence into forward momentum does not occur every time a CM gets the ball. The ability to take those opportunities when they crop up, or at least to do so an above average number of times, is therefore an entry level requirement for a CM with a competitive Champions League team. I stressed again and again that just by improving our fluidity in possession, such a player would also automatically improve us defensively.*

As I posted many times to say, Badelj was my favoured candidate back in the summer. The change of shape has changed my mind about whether Badelj remains suitable. I'd always pick him in a three, but would hesitate in a two.

Repeating the potential names is not necessary to the point I was making. Which is, that Nemanja is not, in my opinion, the solution under any circumstances. I repeatedly stated this view last season and was challenged by someone, perhaps you - I can't remember, to name just one player from anywhere in the world who was better than Nemanja. My response was that I could name at least a dozen** just in the Premier League. I believed it then, and I believe it now. For me, Nemaja's limitations are a real handbrake on this team.

*This is pretty much the same argument I used to explain why I was so pleased when Marcos began to be linked and why I felt that people were wrong to blame our defenders alone for our poor defence last season.

**I may have said more than a dozen, can't remember. If I did it would still have been true.

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You talk like Matic was some pub player, he is not the most gifted player ever, but he is one of the top assisters in the PL this season, he was the best player in the Portuguese League in his stint there and was absolutely crucial in the 2014/2015 campaign. IMO he still is a very good player, not world class, but at least a Top 5 DM, i don't even know if he would accept to be a backup for Kanté next season, would be very happy if he does so.

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3 hours ago, Socur Toxanarosa said:

You talk like Matic was some pub player, he is not the most gifted player ever, but he is one of the top assisters in the PL this season, he was the best player in the Portuguese League in his stint there and was absolutely crucial in the 2014/2015 campaign. IMO he still is a very good player, not world class, but at least a Top 5 DM, i don't even know if he would accept to be a backup for Kanté next season, would be very happy if he does so.

That's an honest difference of opinion, which is fair enough.

I've never said that Nemanja is a pub player, just one with some deficiencies in key attributes we need.

I've always said that when circumstances are in his favour Nemanja can pick a pass as well as most professionals. His issues are exposed when the set up is not in his favour; when the ball is on his right foot, when his body shape isn't right, when he needs to manipulate the ball to make an angle, when he needs poise to buy time while his teammate makes the run. Those are the times, which is to say almost all of the time, when elite players get to demonstrate their quality, but Nemanja is not elite.

I do not believe that Nemanja was crucial to the whole of the last title campaign. He was a key player for most of the first half, but was way off pace for most of the post-Christmas section. It's only opinion of course but, if you check the post game comments in the match day threads from that period, you will see some evidence which supports my point of view on this.

I agree that Nemanja is unlikely to accept the role of squad player.

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Matic is one of the Pillars of this Team.

It was Jose's Eye for Players, who brought him in. And Conte, smart as he is, plays him regularly, because he is not blind, as sees the same Qualities in him, that Jose and almost everyone else can see.

He does have occasional Off-Matches, but so does everyone else. There are Times when I would literally kick Costas and Hazards Butt off the Field but that doesn't mean they are not important for the Team.

There is no perfect Player ... I mean People here mention Players like Vidal ... who is not even the Letter "F" of the Fooballer that Matic is ... Vidal is a Non-Skilled Aide while Matic posseses the Abilities for Genius Football Moves and reading Pitch Dynamics and Movement.

And btw ... @ I do not believe that Nemanja was crucial to the whole of the last title campaign

Right. But so was nobody else then.

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He has to be replaced next season. He offers nothing going forward. We already have Kante who is already better than Matic defensively. Need a more balanced midfielder next season. 

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9 hours ago, nono said:

He has to be replaced next season. He offers nothing going forward. We already have Kante who is already better than Matic defensively. Need a more balanced midfielder next season. 

Matic is about to extend his Contract until 2021 ...

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