Willian

[Special Juan 27,101]

6 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Agree with this. It's one of the things I constantly here about Hazard that he'd be so much better under a more attack minded coach, which I agree with. But the same has to be said about any of our attacking players, especially the likes of Willian and Pedro. Keeping the ball and attacking is far more effective for them than constantly sitting in front of their full back/wing back and defending.

Sarri apparently really likes Hazard and Willian and sees them as key within his system so I actually see us keeping both of them this season and giving Sarri every opportunity to (1) be a success and (2) hopefully convince them their future is here (especially Hazard).

On a side note people moaning about Willian's behaviour. Yes it wasn't great and he shouldn't have done it but there seems quite an overreaction on here. It's clear there were big problems between the players and Conte. If Willian comes back next season and is playing well people will soon change their tune and be glad he stayed.

We need to look at age and selling value, the picture is much bigger and broader. This offer from Barcelona is huge, not only that, but what he did with Conte was plain wrong, no getting away from that.

What this team needs now is ridding of ego's or egos that think they can rule the roost. Anyone who isn't happy or thinks they are better than us should be sold immediately.

Willian is a good player, but on the flip side there are much better players out there than Willian who we could get and make us stronger.

[Vesper 27,310]

3 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

We need to look at age and selling value, the picture is much bigger and broader. This offer from Barcelona is huge, not only that, but what he did with Conte was plain wrong, no getting away from that.

What this team needs now is ridding of ego's or egos that think they can rule the roost. Anyone who isn't happy or thinks they are better than us should be sold immediately.

Willian is a good player, but on the flip side there are much better players out there than Willian who we could get and make us stronger.

Barca are signing Malcom (for only £36m, grrrrrrrrrr), goodbye £65m for Willian from them

Barcelona agree €41m Malcom move after hijacking Roma deal

http://www.goal.com/en/news/barcelona-agree-41m-malcom-move-after-hijacking-roma-deal/gklk1h0hio6y1xezi9f9qqtue

[Vesper 27,310]

11 minutes ago, Hazardinho Gaucho said:

Tired of this little fecker. Proved in the wc how useless he really is. Should se him to China.

HELL YES

cannot believe we bollocksed up that £65m Barca move. WTF!

Now its Man U or bust

Willian is going to be club house poison, watch him pull a fucking Costa

[Superblue 6,331]

3 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

We need to look at age and selling value, the picture is much bigger and broader. This offer from Barcelona is huge, not only that, but what he did with Conte was plain wrong, no getting away from that.

What this team needs now is ridding of ego's or egos that think they can rule the roost. Anyone who isn't happy or thinks they are better than us should be sold immediately.

Willian is a good player, but on the flip side there are much better players out there than Willian who we could get and make us stronger.

So on that basis we should sell Hazard and Courtois because they want to leave, despite it being a seemingly sure thing that any replacement we get for either of them will be a downgrade?

Are there better players out there for the price? Richarlison is moving for £50m. I understand the idea of selling Willian and reinvesting in someone like Bailey or Pulisic but its a long term vision. That's all fine and well but now more than ever I believe we need to be focusing on the present and concentrating getting back into the top 4. We have a good blend of ages in the squad at present and I wouldn't look at our team and think it's old. It's of a good age but vastly experienced which gives us an edge over teams like Spurs. On that basis the safer bet would be Willian, as it would fully backing the manager.

Also if we're wanting the likes of Hazard, Courtois and Kante to commit to new contracts and see the club's ambition then selling Willian and replacing with a young potential doesn't show short term ambition which is what they want to see to stay. 

[Special Juan 27,101]

2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

So on that basis we should sell Hazard and Courtois because they want to leave, despite it being a seemingly sure thing that any replacement we get for either of them will be a downgrade?

Are there better players out there for the price? Richarlison is moving for £50m. I understand the idea of selling Willian and reinvesting in someone like Bailey or Pulisic but its a long term vision. That's all fine and well but now more than ever I believe we need to be focusing on the present and concentrating getting back into the top 4. We have a good blend of ages in the squad at present and I wouldn't look at our team and think it's old. It's of a good age but vastly experienced which gives us an edge over teams like Spurs. On that basis the safer bet would be Willian, as it would fully backing the manager.

Also if we're wanting the likes of Hazard, Courtois and Kante to commit to new contracts and see the club's ambition then selling Willian and replacing with a young potential doesn't show short term ambition which is what they want to see to stay. 

Hazard you try and keep at all costs, which is exactly what is sounds like the club are doing. He's world class, Courtois is in the last year of his contract coming up, so the sanctions on him are totally different, we are backed into a corner, not really a comparison and both are streets ahead of Willian in their field.

Losing Willian wouldn't have any effect on us and the top 4 if we replaced correctly, and yes there are all alternatives out there who would offer more to us right now IMO. Selling Willian at 29 for the amount of money that's been bid makes total sense from a business point of view, and that's exactly how this club operate.

You can't claim constantly about long and short term visions when you sack a manager nigh on every 18 months and chop backroom staff like they are vegetables.

[Superblue 6,331]

5 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Hazard you try and keep at all costs, which is exactly what is sounds like the club are doing. He's world class, Courtois is in the last year of his contract coming up, so the sanctions on him are totally different, we are backed into a corner, not really a comparison and both are streets ahead of Willian in their field.

Losing Willian wouldn't have any effect on us and the top 4 if we replaced correctly, and yes there are all alternatives out there who would offer more to us right now IMO. Selling Willian at 29 for the amount of money that's been bid makes total sense from a business point of view, and that's exactly how this club operate.

You can't claim constantly about long and short term visions when you sack a manager nigh on every 18 months and chop backroom staff like they are vegetables.

I understand that and under usual circumstances I would agree that the club should do this sort of deal from a business point of view and replace him with someone like Bailey but it's a bigger risk this summer in my opinion when we are out of the top 4. We only have to look at last season, the majority of people were happy to bring in Morata and Bakayoko to replace Costa and Matic and the idea that they were both younger and were better in the long term for us. However those two deals crippled us last season, Kante was left doing everything in midfield on his own and we had no goalscorer. 

£60m is a lot of money but in the current landscape it's not huge. There are some pretty average players going for similar money. We should know having paid a similar amount for Morata.

[Special Juan 27,101]

7 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I understand that and under usual circumstances I would agree that the club should do this sort of deal from a business point of view and replace him with someone like Bailey but it's a bigger risk this summer in my opinion when we are out of the top 4. We only have to look at last season, the majority of people were happy to bring in Morata and Bakayoko to replace Costa and Matic and the idea that they were both younger and were better in the long term for us. However those two deals crippled us last season, Kante was left doing everything in midfield on his own and we had no goalscorer. 

£60m is a lot of money but in the current landscape it's not huge. There are some pretty average players going for similar money. We should know having paid a similar amount for Morata.

The problem with Morata is that there was none, literally no available strikers around barring him last summer. Madrid knew were desperate, we were desperate and we had to be held to ransom by Madrid to get him. Lukaku fucked off to United and we had a paddle but no boat whilst on shit creek.

Our past failings like last season has stemmed from a few things, mainly penny pinching. Drinkwater, Zappacosta and Emerson(I have hopes for) were real middle of the road signatures for money that far exceeded their abilities, but once again we needed bodies desperately. Chopping and changing coaches leads to this, fragmented views on who is good and who is not, it just then has a domino effect and a revolving door when the next guy turns up to stand on the touchline.

I don't look at incoming figures anymore, I look at their ability, how they perform consistently and compare them to what we have right now, and mostly the current situation of the club. We are seeing Sarri start a fresh, new ideas, new way of playing and by the sounds of it he is the one chasing the club to sign Higuain.

[Alabama 1,992]

4 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I understand that and under usual circumstances I would agree that the club should do this sort of deal from a business point of view and replace him with someone like Bailey but it's a bigger risk this summer in my opinion when we are out of the top 4. We only have to look at last season, the majority of people were happy to bring in Morata and Bakayoko to replace Costa and Matic and the idea that they were both younger and were better in the long term for us. However those two deals crippled us last season, Kante was left doing everything in midfield on his own and we had no goalscorer. 

£60m is a lot of money but in the current landscape it's not huge. There are some pretty average players going for similar money. We should know having paid a similar amount for Morata.

Bailey Fekir and Pulisic are millions miles ahead of willian....go watch the world cup and see how average he is despite his technical proficiency...replacing willian this summer will be one of the most reasonable deal the club will ever pull...I struggle to imagine what he will contribute despite reported Sarri wanting him to stay....Selling Matic and Costa and replacing them with Bakayoko and Morata is not even the problem but the lack of quality injection hence while we end in 5th position...same scenario u want us to repeat this coming season again.. 

[Superblue 6,331]

1 minute ago, Special Juan said:

The problem with Morata is that there was none, literally no available strikers around barring him last summer. Madrid knew were desperate, we were desperate and we had to be held to ransom by Madrid to get him. Lukaku fucked off to United and we had a paddle but no boat whilst on shit creek.

Our past failings like last season has stemmed from a few things, mainly penny pinching. Drinkwater, Zappacosta and Emerson(I have hopes for) were real middle of the road signatures for money that far exceeded their abilities, but once again we needed bodies desperately. Chopping and changing coaches leads to this, fragmented views on who is good and who is not, it just then has a domino effect and a revolving door when the next guy turns up to stand on the touchline.

I don't look at incoming figures anymore, I look at their ability, how they perform consistently and compare them to what we have right now, and mostly the current situation of the club. We are seeing Sarri start a fresh, new ideas, new way of playing and by the sounds of it he is the one chasing the club to sign Higuain.

Yeah can't argue with this. However if reports are to be believed, Sarri really rates Willian. If we're to give him the best possible opportunity to be a success here and get his style working to the most effect then the right thing is to back him and keep Willian if that is somebody that Sarri wants? Maybe that is what the club have done and said to him that if the offers they receive reach a certain value then we'll have to sell but otherwise we'll make an effort to keep him.

I also saw that David Luiz was quoted yesterday saying he has spoken with Willian who wants to stay so the idea that he will be a bad egg if he is forced to remain I don't think is necessarily true. 

[Superblue 6,331]

4 minutes ago, eemanyooel said:

Bailey Fekir and Pulisic are millions miles ahead of willian....go watch the world cup and see how average he is despite his technical proficiency...replacing willian this summer will be one of the most reasonable deal the club will ever pull...I struggle to imagine what he will contribute despite reported Sarri wanting him to stay....Selling Matic and Costa and replacing them with Bakayoko and Morata is not even the problem but the lack of quality injection hence while we end in 5th position...same scenario u want us to repeat this coming season again.. 

How is Bakayoko and Morata not the problem? They came in to replace two first team players and failed miserably.

The other root problem last season in my opinion was Conte. His tactics, his attitude, everything about him last season screamed negative and hindered the club.

I genuinely believe that bringing in Sarri and buying into his philosophy will immediately give us a lift over last season. Hopefully this includes bringing in a striker who will score goals which appears to be lacking.

And on the point of the players you mentioned. I believe Bailey will be better than Willian long term and probably Pulisic too but neither are at that level yet in my opinion and both are young coming from different leagues so there is a lot of risk there that they'll take quite a bit of time to settle. Is this what we need when we're already making significant changes this summer changing Conte with Sarri. Fekir isn't a natural winger so isn't a natural replacement for Willian. Also I fail to see how he is best utilised in a 4-3-3 when he plays his best football as a 10. 

Basing things on Sarri at Napoli he will want someone willing to play out wide on that right hand side and not be always looking to cut inside. I do think that Pedro and Willian could suit Sarri's system very well and more so than the players you mentioned. Whether they are better individuals or not is up for debate but the fit has to be right. 

If we sell Willian and replace him with someone that Sarri really wants and fits in great to the system then I'm all for that, but I'm not against keeping Willian like most people are because I don't see him as easily replaceable as is being discussed.

[DYC. 7,542]

If he stays, I hope Sarri tries him in midfield. Willian-Jorginho-Kante is something I'd like to see.

[Alabama 1,992]

42 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

How is Bakayoko and Morata not the problem? They came in to replace two first team players and failed miserably.

The other root problem last season in my opinion was Conte. His tactics, his attitude, everything about him last season screamed negative and hindered the club.

I genuinely believe that bringing in Sarri and buying into his philosophy will immediately give us a lift over last season. Hopefully this includes bringing in a striker who will score goals which appears to be lacking.

And on the point of the players you mentioned. I believe Bailey will be better than Willian long term and probably Pulisic too but neither are at that level yet in my opinion and both are young coming from different leagues so there is a lot of risk there that they'll take quite a bit of time to settle. Is this what we need when we're already making significant changes this summer changing Conte with Sarri. Fekir isn't a natural winger so isn't a natural replacement for Willian. Also I fail to see how he is best utilised in a 4-3-3 when he plays his best football as a 10. 

Basing things on Sarri at Napoli he will want someone willing to play out wide on that right hand side and not be always looking to cut inside. I do think that Pedro and Willian could suit Sarri's system very well and more so than the players you mentioned. Whether they are better individuals or not is up for debate but the fit has to be right. 

If we sell Willian and replace him with someone that Sarri really wants and fits in great to the system then I'm all for that, but I'm not against keeping Willian like most people are because I don't see him as easily replaceable as is being discussed.

I said not bringing quality part of which Morata and Bakayoko were one of the several reasons we struggled...Drinkwater Bakayoko Zappacosta aint gonna take u anywhere in the league lest alone win you trophies... Fabinho Soler and lots of other midfielders were available we opted for Bakayoko....Morata i can understand the club stance on him due to non availability of quality strikers in the market just like SJ discussed above....back to willian no matter how good a winger is without end product that is ineffectiveness....Sarrri will not transform willian to score minimum of 13 to 15  league goals in a season...no matter how scintillating Sarriball or style is..goals win u games and right now we cant get that in willian and then from tactical perspective most of our attack will emanate from Hazard position which to dribble create goal scoring chances then we need players  on the side of the wing to make runs behind the defense and provide goal scoring threat...willian is not capable of doing such...unless we bring in Martial/Higuain we will be team that has less goals of the big 6 similar to last season... Early signs from Morata is not encouraging....

[the wes 7,212]

Guys I gotta feeling Willian is staying put 

[ulsterchelsea 3,213]

The annoying thing about willian is that if he could just sort his passing/decision making out at times he'd be a wonderful player. Bags of speed, energy to burn, good interplay, occasional decent set piece. I just think in this fast paced Sarri side you need good passers and willian will get found out sharpish. He won't be the only one either 

[Abreu03 292]

I can't believe this shit is going to be another season in Chelsea.

[Special Juan 27,101]

Barcelona not fucking about, maybe a lesson we could learn eh? Knocked back by us 3 times, swoop for Malcom and within 12 hrs...BOSH, done.

Maybe we could ring them and ask about efficiency, he's not a player just about doing business swiftly and without nonsense.

[Henrique 9,133]

7 hours ago, Special Juan said:

Zaha, Pulisic, Bailey and Fekir could all play there. Fekir is more suited to the #10 role though

 

5 hours ago, eemanyooel said:

Bailey Fekir and Pulisic are millions miles ahead of willian....go watch the world cup and see how average he is despite his technical proficiency...replacing willian this summer will be one of the most reasonable deal the club will ever pull...I struggle to imagine what he will contribute despite reported Sarri wanting him to stay....Selling Matic and Costa and replacing them with Bakayoko and Morata is not even the problem but the lack of quality injection hence while we end in 5th position...same scenario u want us to repeat this coming season again.. 

What a load of bullshit. If you were talking about replacing William with someone like Bale or even Douglas Costa I would agree, but you are coming up with Zaha, Pulisic, Bailey and Fakir...United and Barcelona are going after William, but Chelsea fans want to replace William with Zaha or unfinished products from Bundelisga.

I don't see the logic of some people. Last season Matic and Costa were labelled as useless, and some people were even suggesting that Morata (the man who made Torres looks a bargain) was better than Costa.

[Henrique 9,133]

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/fc-barcelona/20180724/451091408172/malcom-chelse-willian-barcelona-burdeos-roma.html

According to Mundo Deportivo, Barcelona offered 50m but Chelsea wanted 70m. The last offer was 50m + Andre Gomes. The offer was rejected, then Barcelona acted quickly and hijacked Malcom from Roma.