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Peppi85

loaned out Charly Musonda Jr.

Started by Peppi85,

1,141 posts in this topic

Man you really can't blame him if he decides to leave permanently, because deep down almost everyone here knows it is the best decision for his individual career.

I don't blame you at but we as chelsea fan we do not support his decision and I know the chelsea board will agree with it

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We should sell him and put a buy back clause. That would be better than all this loans we make, so that their young minds can be settled and we can still get them back cheap if they turn out to be fantastic.

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look at all the people agreeing with u

You start off right. Kakuta was higher rated. but right now Pogba is higher rated than Ronaldo and probably Hazard too. does that mean he's better? no. has he been better than either of them? no.

I said Musonda is the most talented we've had. Whatever hype was associated with Kakuta and whatever high expectations were placed on him due to media is irrelevant to that. Fool.

Fool, yes Fool indeed you are.

I was referring to what they are at the same age/point(16-18yrs). Kakuta was a far more dominant youth player than Musonda has been; that's why he was so highly rated.

I haven't talked about what Musonda is going to be when he reaches 24 because that's just speculation. He could end up Hazard level or even better; or Kakuta level or even worse.

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Kakuta was a far more dominant youth player than Musonda has been

are you absolutely sure about that?

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Kakuta in his youth prime which was 07/08 scored 11 goals in 27 apps and his overall game back then , to anyone that understands football, was extremely headless chickenless and full of empty showboating i.e dribbling and skills that ultimately lead to nowhere while Musonda on the otherhand ran the show and inspired arguably the best youth team in europe to domestic and European success playing mostly as a central midfielder showing the maturity, intelligence and understanding of the game that Kakuta never had.

Gael was just another typical youtube wonderkid. Don't confuse meaningless showboating/skills for dominance.

"Musonda on the otherhand ran the show and inspired arguably the best youth team in europe to domestic and European success"

You cannot claim Musonda was more impactful than Colkett or Solanke in the youth team this yr. That's just ridiculous. At the very most it was equal. Last year, at least 5 youth players had more impact.

Kakuta on the other was the most prominent man in our youth sides

AGAIN, youth football "prominence" MOST TIMES doesn't translate to the senior level due to many many reasons, different for each player. Kakuta and Mceachran as good examples closer to home.

"showboating/skills for dominance" is only meaningless if the player doesn't deliver at whatever point/level they may be. CR7, Neymar, ETC were so called showboaters but delivered and then they were also able to bring up their game to the senior level at an early age. Mceachran was a so called maturity, intelligence and understanding midfielder who was prominent in youth football but couldn't scale up, Fabregas on the other hand scaled up. ETC

Musonda may or may not scale up. He may became very prominent at the senior level or he may fizzle out even worse than Kakuta. But in youth football, Kakuta was the more impactful player.

I get it, we(including me) all love Charly, but lets not get in over ourselves here; in the grand scheme of things he has done almost nothing so far.

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"Musonda on the otherhand ran the show and inspired arguably the best youth team in europe to domestic and European success"

You cannot claim Musonda was more impactful than Colkett or Solanke in the youth team this yr. That's just ridiculous. At the very most it was equal. Last year, at least 5 youth players had more impact.

Kakuta on the other was the most prominent man in our youth sides

AGAIN, youth football "prominence" MOST TIMES doesn't translate to the senior level due to many many reasons, different for each player. Kakuta and Mceachran as good examples closer to home.

"showboating/skills for dominance" is only meaningless if the player doesn't deliver at whatever point/level they may be. CR7, Neymar, ETC were so called showboaters but delivered and then they were also able to bring up their game to the senior level at an early age. Mceachran was a so called maturity, intelligence and understanding midfielder who was prominent in youth football but couldn't scale up, Fabregas on the other hand scaled up. ETC

Musonda may or may not scale up. He may became very prominent at the senior level or he may fizzle out even worse than Kakuta. But in youth football, Kakuta was the more impactful player.

I get it, we(including me) all love Charly, but lets not get in over ourselves here; in the grand scheme of things he has done almost nothing so far.

How does the statement "He ran the show" translate to meaning the player in question was the only outstanding player? This Chelsea youth team is far more talented than the one that Gael played in so it's only natural that he stands out more in a sea of mediocrity mixed in with one decent talent (Borini at the time). Quality teams full of talent will always have more than one outstanding performers at anyone time and that takes nothing away from outstanding individual performances. You don't get any extra point for being a big fish in a small pond.

AGAIN, youth football "prominence" MOST TIMES doesn't translate to the senior level due to many many reasons, different for each player. Kakuta and Mceachran as good examples closer to home.

The most pointless statement of the year. no one has claimed otherwise. the argument was whether your statement about kakuta being far more dominant for the youth team than Charly was accurate and a fair assessment or not.

"showboating/skills for dominance" is only meaningless if the player doesn't deliver at whatever point/level they may be. CR7, Neymar, ETC were so called showboaters but delivered and then they were also able to bring up their game to the senior level at an early age. Mceachran was a so called maturity, intelligence and understanding midfielder who was prominent in youth football but couldn't scale up, Fabregas on the other hand scaled up. ETC

Musonda may or may not scale up. He may became very prominent at the senior level or he may fizzle out even worse than Kakuta. But in youth football, Kakuta was the more impactful player.

I get it, we(including me) all love Charly, but lets not get in over ourselves here; in the grand scheme of things he has done almost nothing so far.

First off, neymar despite being flashy was very productive and so was the one before him Ronaldinho.

Hazard, Isco, sanchez et al too are flashy but intelligent, productive and decisive players. The issue isn't about youth players being flashy but whether the flamboyancy is to the detriment of the team and hinders them from being productive and decisive. It's the decision making of knowing when to attempt a skill and what to do with the ball after and the tactical awareness and intelligence that distinguish the "flamboyant donkeys" like Kakuta, taraabt,Quaresma et al from the former.

Jeronimo123, Leif, bethos1 and 1 other like this

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i'll be surprised if even 1 of these European and domestic champions break into our first team.

Maximum a few appearances in the 80th minute or so.

Not with Jose in charge anyways.

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https://instagram.com/p/4ce-S2IeKT/?taken-by=mousinhojr

Looks like he already know's where he is playing next season, "season starts in 20 day's". I guess he means pre-season. Off all the clubs he has been linked with, both Arsenal and Olympique Marseille have their first preseason game around that time :o.

But i think it will most likely be Olympique Marseille.

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This thread is a bit of a mess. Why not just leave it at Musonda is an extremely promising talent who needs a loan to a team that will get him 10+ starts and 1500+ minutes of game time.

He can get that at Marseille as Payet just left and Marseille is chomping at the bit for more Belgian talents after Batshuayi's goal scoring record this season.

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How does the statement "He ran the show" translate to meaning the player in question was the only outstanding player? This Chelsea youth team is far more talented than the one that Gael played in so it's only natural that he stands out more in a sea of mediocrity mixed in with one decent talent (Borini at the time). Quality teams full of talent will always have more than one outstanding performers at anyone time and that takes nothing away from outstanding individual performances. You don't get any extra point for being a big fish in a small pond.

The most pointless statement of the year. no one has claimed otherwise. the argument was whether your statement about kakuta being far more dominant for the youth team than Charly was accurate and a fair assessment or not.

First off, neymar despite being flashy was very productive and so was the one before him Ronaldinho.

Hazard, Isco, sanchez et al too are flashy but intelligent, productive and decisive players. The issue isn't about youth players being flashy but whether the flamboyancy is to the detriment of the team and hinders them from being productive and decisive. It's the decision making of knowing when to attempt a skill and what to do with the ball after and the tactical awareness and intelligence that distinguish the "flamboyant donkeys" like Kakuta, taraabt,Quaresma et al from the former.

Notice I didn't use "only outstanding," I used "more impactful". I'm not great at English but i'm pretty sure those 2 don't imply the same thing.

The current youth team is indeed better than Kakuta's youth team but it wasn't a "sea of mediocrity". Kakuta played with the likes of Jack Cork, Bridcut, Hutchinson, PVA, Borini, Bruma. Yeah they aren't world beaters now, but they were actually pretty good prospects back then; they weren't "mediocre".

Some players scale up their game from youth football with all their qualities and attributes and even acquire others, some players don't. No one knew Quaresma would flop at senior level. Trying to say otherwise is claiming clairvoyance and that's bullshit. Mceachran might have been an intelligent, mature midfielder in youth football but senior football presented another dimension that he couldn't scale up to. No one knows if Musonda will scale up to all the different dimensions of senior football. Chelsea didn't know Kakuta wouldn't be up to it at senior level((whatever/not getting into) the reasons). If they did, they wouldn't have gone through all the hullabaloo of getting him. The idea is to hope that they make it and help them to do so. That's why they are "prospects", "promising prospects".

They were your words trying to make it out as if Kakuta's flamboyance wasn't productive in the youth team. He couldn't scale up his game to the senior level, but it was certainly productive in youth football, much more so than Musonda's. Musonda might scale up his game at senior level and be much better(productively) than Kakuta has been at this level or not; that remains to be seen. That's been the whole point.

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https://twitter.com/Musondacjr

Well this is interesting. Looks like he is joining the first-teams preseason tour (they have to report back for training tomorrow). Unless he means joining up with our U21's, although i think they started training a week ago.

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https://twitter.com/Musondacjr

Well this is interesting. Looks like he is joining the first-teams preseason tour (they have to report back for training tomorrow). Unless he means joining up with our U21's, although i think they started training a week ago.

Was thinking he would be joining the tour, don't know when Oscar, Willian and Cuadrado will return to the team so i guess Charly will be training with the big guys until their break is over.

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Was thinking he would be joining the tour, don't know when Oscar, Willian and Cuadrado will return to the team so i guess Charly will be training with the big guys until their break is over.

Oscar will join the tour. He didn't participate in the Copa America and had a big 2 months rest. Only Willian and Cuadrado won't be back. Seeïng that the full squad is there bar those 2, im curious if he will get some chances to impress. We got some pretty though pre-season fixtures coming up with PSG, Barcelona and Fiorentina.

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