Oscar

[didierforever 7,349]

For a guy that never started on Chelsea, you sure are confident...

It's ironic, because people always made arguments that Oscar was the one that could control games and Mata was the one that couldn't.

well, thats the position oscar has put us all in, has not he? i mean how poor can cuadrado be on the RW to be correspondingly as bad as oscar has been as a CAM.

mata got goals and assists in plenty. in 2012-13, mata had 19 goals and 35 assists in 4893 minutes (90 minutes per goal/assists) which means that at an average he got a goal/assistin each match (http://www.transfermarkt.com/juan-mata/leistungsdaten/spieler/44068/plus/?saison=2012). oscar is supposedly making a massive impact by his goals and assists which are 7 goals and 8 assists in 2293 minutes (152 minutes/goal+assist) (http://www.transfermarkt.com/oscar/leistungsdaten/spieler/85314).

unfortunately for oscar, we have someone who can give us everything he has and more - cesc. he is good at pressing, has a good workrate, defensively does not just run around but actually does defend and lets not even go into the creative part of it cos it is an embarassing difference between the 2 of them.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

So because Oscar has a couple of more goals than players like Koke and Isco, he's a better player than them? Right now, he's not even close to the likes of Eriksen and Cazorla, crazy to put his name in the same sentence as Koke. I don't get the obsession with using far-flung statistics, stripped of actual context to justify player A being better than player B. It's so, so silly as these aren't even direct comparisons.

Anyway........... Oscar needs to understand that this team has grown up. This team is now destined to become Champions, and that means there's no more room for mediocre and inconsistent performances. That's so last season. And age is no longer an excuse. Look at Eriksen, same age, same position. A reliable match winner for his team. Oscar has only turned up this season when he's had Fabregas to hold his hand. Mourinho rarely trusts him in the big games as he's always shit in them. Maybe we'll just have to accept sooner or later the guy isn't good enough to be a starting number 10 for a club like Chelsea. People keep talking about how important he is for the "balance on the team" and all these abstruse attributes he supposedly brings to the table. No one can deny he's a hard-worker, but we already have hard-workers in our team. Remember just how "crucial" players like Ramires and MIKEL were before we replaced them with better players? Let's not pretend that we cannot do better.

When your number 10 can't even make simple, decisive passes, protect the ball, make right decisions and dictate the tempo vs inferior opposition, then he isn't a good number 10. How many times have we seen Oscar ruin a simple attacking move because he lacks the vision and composure to make a simple forward pass? Oscar reminds me a bit of Luiz. Good footballer, but lacks the attributes required for his position. I'm not saying we should sell Oscar, because he's a talented player, but we if Jose is planning on continuing with the 4-2-3-1 in the future, we should be looking at signing a more creative playmaker for the 10 position. Or we can go for something more balanced and solid, i.e go all out for Pogba and pair him next to Matic and Cesc in a 4-3-3.

[DH1988 1,194]

Cesc in the fake 10 we have doesn't press as Jose likes, Oscar presses as much as anyone in the team if not more (or tied with Willian) except he lacks quite a bit although pops up with the odd goal/assist etc.

Thats what we sacrifice until we either replace him with someone or a higher caliber who can do both things or competition for places. Willian has pushed on since Cuadrado was announced after all, if not we can send him to PSG £40m

[lionsden 4,689]

It took people 3 years to realise what I have always known. My sentiment back then in his first season was he's not good enough, nor talented enough, nor consistent enough to be a starter for us.

it's amazing how people milked the heck out of that one single performance against juventus to defend his mediocrity throughout the entire 12/13 season.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

Oscar and creative? I don't think so, sorry. Willian beats him on almost everything bar finishing and maybe movement in the final third.

Oscar is more creative then Willian, the stats also back that up

[The Skipper 20,593]

Damn, a lot of spoiled fans these days. You cant have WC players in every position, that's not how you balance a squad. You need players such as Oscar and Ramires - players who do the hard work and help the team in every Way and dont care to much about the latest trends in hairstyles. People love to hate on Oscar and Ramires these days, but I respect both of them very much and I think that they deserve respect.

Are you not reading my argument when I'm saying that we should play Ramires or Willian in the team over Oscar?

Besides, being world class and hard working aren't mutually exclusive. I hope you know that.

Oscar is a passenger at the moment. He isn't even doing the things he does well (work rate, tactical discipline) greatly.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

Wow can't believe some of the comments on here, just because Oscar doesn't play like a traditional number 10, people think he isn't good enough! Most number 10's are very direct whenever they get the ball they look to play it through to the striker, Oscar is different, he gives us balance and tends to play safer passes rather then the riskier through balls, that's fine when you have someone like Fabregas in the team, Oscar is someone who keeps the ball moving and is happy to play the simple pass to people like Hazard and Fabregas so they can do their thing, usually your CM would do that job, for us its our number 10, there is nothing wrong with that, as he is also a goal threat and excellent at pressing teams high up the pitch.

As he matures he will probably become more direct and play the riskier passes more often, but right now I like the balance our front players have, Oscar and Fabregas compliment eachother very well, if we had Mata in the number 10 role both Mata and Fabregas would just be playing through ball after through ball, Costa would probably love that but we would become predictable and players like Hazard and Willian would probably rather have Oscar in the number 10 role as he would play the simpler passes to them and create space for them to run at defenders, to be a great team you need balance and Matic and Oscar are the 2 players who really give our team perfect balance.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Oscar is more creative then Willian, the stats also back that up

Oscar plays in the middle of the park, Willian is out wide, of course it's going to be easier for Oscar to get more assists.

Willian is more creative because he can see the more difficult pass better, whereas Oscar won't even see it and fails a lot when trying to do a basic through ball.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Wow can't believe some of the comments on here, just because Oscar doesn't play like a traditional number 10, people think he isn't good enough! Most number 10's are very direct whenever they get the ball they look to play it through to the striker, Oscar is different, he gives us balance and tends to play safer passes rather then the riskier through balls, that's fine when you have someone like Fabregas in the team, Oscar is someone who keeps the ball moving and is happy to play the simple pass to people like Hazard and Fabregas so they can do their thing, usually your CM would do that job, for us its our number 10, there is nothing wrong with that, as he is also a goal threat and excellent at pressing teams high up the pitch.

As he matures he will probably become more direct and play the riskier passes more often, but right now I like the balance our front players have, Oscar and Fabregas compliment eachother very well, if we had Mata in the number 10 role both Mata and Fabregas would just be playing through ball after through ball, Costa would probably love that but we would become predictable and players like Hazard and Willian would probably rather have Oscar in the number 10 role as he would play the simpler passes to them and create space for them to run at defenders, to be a great team you need balance and Matic and Oscar are the 2 players who really give our team perfect balance.

I used to argue the same but he doesn't even press excellently anymore and his link up play has gone dire. He's struggling to make basic passes. He's more of a liability now than actually balancing out the team. As I've argued already, Ramires or Willian can provide what he does in the team more effectively on current form.

And the "as he matures" excuse is so tiresome, he's played a lot of football over the last 3 seasons but he's barely improved.

[Oscar 441]

well, thats the position oscar has put us all in, has not he? i mean how poor can cuadrado be on the RW to be correspondingly as bad as oscar has been as a CAM.

mata got goals and assists in plenty. in 2012-13, mata had 19 goals and 35 assists in 4893 minutes (90 minutes per goal/assists) which means that at an average he got a goal/assistin each match (http://www.transfermarkt.com/juan-mata/leistungsdaten/spieler/44068/plus/?saison=2012). oscar is supposedly making a massive impact by his goals and assists which are 7 goals and 8 assists in 2293 minutes (152 minutes/goal+assist) (http://www.transfermarkt.com/oscar/leistungsdaten/spieler/85314).

unfortunately for oscar, we have someone who can give us everything he has and more - cesc. he is good at pressing, has a good workrate, defensively does not just run around but actually does defend and lets not even go into the creative part of it cos it is an embarassing difference between the 2 of them.

Cesc is not good at pressing, workrate and defensively. He is easily outpaced on the counter and invisibile in many situations.

Put Cesc as the n10, and diego essentially is a one man dog pressing everyone by himself. If you really think that cesc offense won't be affected due to his defensive responsibilities, you are in dreamland. Cesc, is like Hazard. Both at least give effort in the press and defensively, however, neither are really effective in that part of the game.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Cesc is not good at pressing, workrate and defensively. He is easily outpaced on the counter and invisibile in many situations.

Put Cesc as the n10, and diego essentially is a one man dog pressing everyone by himself. If you really think that cesc offense won't be affected due to his defensive responsibilities, you are in dreamland. Cesc, is like Hazard. Both at least give effort in the press and defensively, however, neither are really effective in that part of the game.

How about we do this then:

Costa

Hazard - Willian - Cuadrado

Matic - Fabregas

Your argument is dead with this team tbh.

[lionsden 4,689]

How about we do this then:

Costa

Hazard - Willian - Cuadrado

Matic - Fabregas

Your argument is dead with this team tbh.

He will just tell you Oscar is more creative and better than Willian and bring up stats to prove it without context.

[Oscar 441]

How about we do this then:

Costa

Hazard - Willian - Cuadrado

Matic - Fabregas

Your argument is dead with this team tbh.

Or just put cesc as n10 with ramires behind him. However, in the beginning of the season it was oscar that always helped the cms retain possession and keep possession. Willian is a better dribbler and a more pacey player, but can he do the same thing as Oscar? ANd as of right now, Cuadrado is question mark...

People always complain about either willian or oscar every other game, but, chelsea without the brazilians are not the team jose envision. No brazilians, no first place. These brazilians, willian, ramires, oscar and costa are the best pressers on the squad and the reason why chelsea can sacrifice for its lack of athleticism in the back.

However, with that being said, I'm sure Oscar won't start every game as cam and eventually either cesc or willian will play a game or 2 there, so we can see again how they play and go on from that.

[Oscar 441]

He will just tell you Oscar is more creative and better than Willian and bring up stats to prove it without context.

Being creative is irrelevant for Jose, just like for LVG. He sacrificed those aspects for balanced, which is what Oscar provides. I think after the loss to southampton, mata has been dropped for 3 consecutive league games...

the way I see it, Chelsea need to have 2 of the willian/oscar/ramires starting games...

[bababoom 4,478]

Willian is better than Oscar in terms of ball control, dribbling, pace and woke rate but i wouldn't say he's more creative. TBH both are pretty poor in this department, but i'll say Oscar just edges it.

[Pacquiao 1,834]

Oscar plays in the middle of the park, Willian is out wide, of course it's going to be easier for Oscar to get more assists.

Willian is more creative because he can see the more difficult pass better, whereas Oscar won't even see it and fails a lot when trying to do a basic through ball.

no Oscar creates more then Willian that is a fact. and Oscar isnt even a direct player and still creates alot more then Willian

[Pacquiao 1,834]

I used to argue the same but he doesn't even press excellently anymore and his link up play has gone dire. He's struggling to make basic passes. He's more of a liability now than actually balancing out the team. As I've argued already, Ramires or Willian can provide what he does in the team more effectively on current form.

And the "as he matures" excuse is so tiresome, he's played a lot of football over the last 3 seasons but he's barely improved.

he hasnt been at his best recently but form is temporary, and i think he has improved a lot over the last 3 seasons, he is just a bit inconsistent, which is normal for any young player

[Rekin 835]

Oscar creates more than Willian due to their different positions. You might as well say that Oscar creates more than Azpilicueta if you are going to ignore tactical factors.
Still, even though Willian is on the wing he is not far behind Oscar in some key offensive statistics. Neither player really strikes me as the type with end product, but at least Willian has the pace that makes him a better fit for our side.

Like The Skipper wrote a bit back, we could replace Oscar with Willian in the middle without losing a great deal. Oscar is not a bad player, but after almost three seasons Im losing hope about him really becoming world class. His development has not been substantial, in many ways he still feels like the player that started the first game last season, and he is still the player I never expect to beat his man and set up a good chance. If there is demand after him on the market and a good price to be given, I would personally sell him, but otherwise he is still an excellent squad player.
My point at any rate is that CFC can do better in his position, hopefully they can go for someone who is as good with the pressing, but who can contribute going forward more.

I also realize that he has his best season in terms of productivity, but I still feel like he goes invisible for large parts of a game.