Oscar

[robsblubot 3,217]

Isn't oscar similar to Lampard in style of play? Incidentally wears the same #8...

Not that creative,but hard working and scores and assists on occasion... Just saying.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

He is young. Thats all. Give him few years and we will have one of best midfielders in the world. Consistency, experience and his influence in games will grow with each year. Only thing he has to do is get some more muscle and thats it.

Have some faith.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Not too sure about that. Can Fabregas really do what Mourinho wants with his No.10 in that position? He doesn't have the stamina, workrate and mobility to be moving around the pitch for 90 minutes, like Oscar and Willian. That is why those two are often played in the No.10 position more often than not. Mourinho has played Fabregas in that role a few times this season but has never really convinced and our pressing game tends to suffer from it. Sometimes, one can see Costa going a bit mad when he's doing the all the pressing from the front and no one else really helping him.

As discussed in the Fabregas thread, Fabregas actually covers the most distance in this team so the stamina and work rate issue is pretty void.

My main point however is that our number 10 wouldn't even need to run around or press as much if he had Koke and Matic behind him...

[The Skipper 20,593]

"Oscar is young"... Oscar is 24 later this year and is still one of the most inconsistent players you'll see despite playing week in week out. Look at someone like Zouma for example, far younger than Oscar but looks a lot more mature than him, despite being 3 years younger. This "Oscar is young" excuse is getting really tiresome.

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

"Oscar is young"... Oscar is 24 later this year and is still one of the most inconsistent players you'll see despite playing week in week out. Look at someone like Zouma for example, far younger than Oscar but looks a lot more mature than him, despite being 3 years younger. This "Oscar is young" excuse is getting really tiresome.

Exactly and when you consider he has over 200 appearances at club level for Sao Paulo, Internacional and Chelsea combined and almost 50 Brazil caps at the age of 23, you'd expect him to have played enough football to have found his consistency.

You look at other young players, lets say Ross Barkley for example, Roberto Martinez said he needed at least 50-75 more starts for Everton at some point last season before people could consider if he'd be a great player or not, to let him play games and iron out the inconsistencies that all younger players have but when people are saying that a guy who will be 24 in September still needs a few years I just want to laugh.

He can be a great player but like I said in my last post here, there is a visible improvement in Christian Eriksen and more responsibility and influence in what he does at Spurs from last year, there is a visible improvement in Raheem Sterling at Liverpool and he seems to be there big game player, the guy who influences the game for them as often as he can and whenever he feels he needs to. Ideally I'd like to have seen Oscar gone year to year, improving and improving and being more influential but its not really happened, to be honest the first season under RDM and Rafa he was very very inconsistent but had an excuse having to adapt, being shifted to the wing and managerial changes, last season under Jose, the first 5 months he was our best player but again the second half of the season... inconsistent, mind on the world cup, struggled with minor injuries at times too I think Jose said. This year too, despite this run hes been on the last 8 or 9 games before the City game in terms of goals and assists or whatever it was then a pretty piss poor game where he didn't do anything particularly memorable other than the defensive side which you now expect even though hes a number 10, it just frustrates me. Now against Villa he could go and play good score/assist but then again the week after another performance where potentially you don't remember anything like a shot or a chance created.

[CFC888 219]

Not too sure about that. Can Fabregas really do what Mourinho wants with his No.10 in that position? He doesn't have the stamina, workrate and mobility to be moving around the pitch for 90 minutes, like Oscar and Willian. That is why those two are often played in the No.10 position more often than not. Mourinho has played Fabregas in that role a few times this season but has never really convinced and our pressing game tends to suffer from it. Sometimes, one can see Costa going a bit mad when he's doing the all the pressing from the front and no one else really helping him.

Agree with this. The games where Cesc has played No.10 this season are a case in point.

I'm not talking about Saturday, as he had played 300 minutes in 8 days, but in general, with regards to Oscar's poor output against the better teams:

I think it puts him to shame when you see Kurt Zouma (20 y.o. making his 2nd EPL start) come out against the reigning champions Manchester City and be comfortably our best player on the pitch. Yes they play entirely different roles, but you get the point.

[didierforever 7,349]

Isn't oscar similar to Lampard in style of play? Incidentally wears the same #8...

Not that creative,but hard working and scores and assists on occasion... Just saying.

lampard's passing was immaculate, oscar cant make a 5 5yard passes perfectly.

lampard's consistency was admirable. it was his biggest asset. did not he play every game under jose in one of the seasons in jose's first spell. not only that, 90% of lamps' performance were a 8/10 performance. oscar's best "performance" (like newcastle where he scored and assisted), barely makes a 8/10 performance.

i know people are totally against lamps but comparing oscar to lamps is a blasphemy.

ps - also please dont compare the insane goals and assists that lamps had in his career to the meagre "barely keeps me in the first team" goals and assists of oscar.

[CFC888 219]

lampard's passing was immaculate, oscar cant make a 5 5yard passes perfectly.

lampard's consistency was admirable. it was his biggest asset. did not he play every game under jose in one of the seasons in jose's first spell. not only that, 90% of lamps' performance were a 8/10 performance. oscar's best "performance" (like newcastle where he scored and assisted), barely makes a 8/10 performance.

i know people are totally against lamps but comparing oscar to lamps is a blasphemy.

ps - also please dont compare the insane goals and assists that lamps had in his career to the meagre "barely keeps me in the first team" goals and assists of oscar.

Relax. All Robguima said was that he thinks they have a similar "style of play". No mention was made of the performance factor until you brought it up. There is no comparison between the two in that regard, and Robguima wasn't making one.

I'm sure Oscar aspires to one day be half the player that Lamps has been for Chelsea, but for obvious reasons is nowhere near that yet, and nor is it fair to expect him to be.

[robsblubot 3,217]

Relax. All Robguima said was that he thinks they have a similar "style of play". No mention was made of the performance factor until you brought it up. There is no comparison between the two in that regard, and Robguima wasn't making one.

I'm sure Oscar aspires to one day be half the player that Lamps has been for Chelsea, but for obvious reasons is nowhere near that yet, and nor is it fair to expect him to be.

Thanks for explaining even though you shouldn't have to.

However, one thing that I do agree with oscars detractors is that he must improve; and determining his potential is really the job of all coaches at chelsea. They have all the variables: training level, schedule, physical improvement etc. determining players potential is very difficult, but if they think Oscar cannot get to the level of Lampard in the near future then perhaps the club should go a different route.

But I do think that they do believe in Oscar and that's the reason he is there. They certainly did not offer him a new deal recently because he's a nice guy...

[Spike 12,049]

Didier Drogba was pretty shit till he was about 24 tbh.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

"Oscar is young"... Oscar is 24 later this year and is still one of the most inconsistent players you'll see despite playing week in week out. Look at someone like Zouma for example, far younger than Oscar but looks a lot more mature than him, despite being 3 years younger. This "Oscar is young" excuse is getting really tiresome.

Ok, lets just splash another xxmio on Oscar replacement and hope he wont be as inconsistent. As far as I know we are still first in PL, Oscar is improving and I dont see real need for replacement. Some players need more time some less.

What is clear is that Oscar suits Mou system perfectly and in few years he can be realy realy good.

Oscar last season, he had good first half, terrible second. This year, he will probably perform similar through whole season. Next season even better etc.

And if you are pointing at his performances vs better teams where he wasnt exactly brilliant, then maybe we should look for Cesc replacement because he was average (wont say crap) in most big games too.

The main problem with Oscar is that he needs time. But fans here want instant success and its easy to say sell oscar buy koke or whoever. I would give Oscar at least next season and then we will see.

In dream world I would love to see Pogba-Matic-Koke as our midifield, but we have Oscar and thats reality.

And I love Zouma development but you people are getting ahead of yourselves. He is promising but lets see how he does till end of season and then talk. One two bad games and people will say he is crap.

[Jase 43,479]

As discussed in the Fabregas thread, Fabregas actually covers the most distance in this team so the stamina and work rate issue is pretty void.

How is it void? That 'covers the most distance' stat can be pretty misleading - like he has that stat because he goes forward a lot, stays in defensive position a lot OR both? Even if it's the latter two, it doesn't mean he has good workrate defensively or high stamina. Not saying Fabregas is one but you could have a headless chicken running up and down the pitch in the entire game, doing nothing, and say 'oh he has strong workrate etc...' even when that is not the case.

My main point however is that our number 10 wouldn't even need to run around or press as much if he had Koke and Matic behind him...

I doubt that'll be the case as long as Mourinho is still our manager. Granted the partnership of Mikel and Matic might not be the best but we have played Fabregas in front of those two before and he's still required to press, even if it has been slightly non-existent.

[didierforever 7,349]

Not too sure about that. Can Fabregas really do what Mourinho wants with his No.10 in that position? He doesn't have the stamina, workrate and mobility to be moving around the pitch for 90 minutes, like Oscar and Willian. That is why those two are often played in the No.10 position more often than not. Mourinho has played Fabregas in that role a few times this season but has never really convinced and our pressing game tends to suffer from it. Sometimes, one can see Costa going a bit mad when he's doing the all the pressing from the front and no one else really helping him.

Totally disagree with this.

Cesc as a no.10 has been pretty impressive. His pressing is way better than oscar's. Our best away performance defensively woild have been stoke when cesc started as a no.10.

Also, there is a massive difference with cesc and oscar. Oscar loses the ball, cesc doesn't. Or atleast not half as much as osvar. Oscar has to make it up with the extra running and workrate, which to be fair to him he does. With cesc we get a much better control of them and the number of turnovers making us so suspect to counters are less.

So it just is not right to say that cesc would not be as good a no.10 as oscar cos oscar has a better stamina.

[didierforever 7,349]

Relax. All Robguima said was that he thinks they have a similar "style of play". No mention was made of the performance factor until you brought it up. There is no comparison between the two in that regard, and Robguima wasn't making one.

I'm sure Oscar aspires to one day be half the player that Lamps has been for Chelsea, but for obvious reasons is nowhere near that yet, and nor is it fair to expect him to be.

But that is a "nothing" argument. Its like saying adel taraabt and ben arfa have a similar style of play as messi as they are all dribblers.

And I think that is what robguima was trying to do. Taking the minutest similarity and exagearting it to the max.

[Jase 43,479]

Totally disagree with this.

Cesc as a no.10 has been pretty impressive. His pressing is way better than oscar's. Our best away performance defensively woild have been stoke when cesc started as a no.10.

Also, there is a massive difference with cesc and oscar. Oscar loses the ball, cesc doesn't. Or atleast not half as much as osvar. Oscar has to make it up with the extra running and workrate, which to be fair to him he does. With cesc we get a much better control of them and the number of turnovers making us so suspect to counters are less.

And yet one could easily point to the Liverpool game at Anfield recently where playing Fabregas in the No.10 role didn't exactly work.

[didierforever 7,349]

And yet one could easily point to the Liverpool game at Anfield recently where playing Fabregas in the No.10 role didn't exactly work.

And then we can argue abiut the second leg where we played oscar in the no.10 role and should have been 2-0/3-0 down if not for courtois. Also your argument about costa getting frustrated with only him pressing was most visible in that match too where he dint get any support from oscar.

Or for that matter the city match too. In which oscar's supposed defensive nuance was no where to be seen and his overall contribition to that match was as mich as mine or yours who were sitting at hone shouting at the TV while sipping beer.

We can take soton as an example for this. Ankther gane where we had total control of the proceedings. Yes, we dint get the desired result, but cesc as the no.10 was great that day too.

[Jase 43,479]

And then we can argue abiut the second leg where we played oscar in the no.10 role and should have been 2-0/3-0 down if not for courtois. Also your argument about costa getting frustrated with only him pressing was most visible in that match too where he dint get any support from oscar.

Or for that matter the city match too. In which oscar's supposed defensive nuance was no where to be seen and his overall contribition to that match was as mich as mine or yours who were sitting at hone shouting at the TV while sipping beer.

We can take soton as an example for this. Ankther gane where we had total control of the proceedings. Yes, we dint get the desired result, but cesc as the no.10 was great that day too.

Think we could easily point out games where Oscar and Fabregas succeeded and failed in the No.10 role. With Oscar, he has proven that he can do the job in that position under Mourinho since last season. Just needs a bit more consistency. As for Fabregas, well, I'll remain unconvinced in him playing in that position until he's been given a run there and see how he performs because there have been matches where he did well and not so well.

[CFC888 219]

His pressing is way better than oscar's.

Really? Our pressing with a front two of Costa and Oscar has been immense this season.

Think we could easily point out games where Oscar and Fabregas succeeded and failed in the No.10 role. With Oscar, he has proven that he can do the job in that position under Mourinho since last season. Just needs a bit more consistency. As for Fabregas, well, I'll remain unconvinced in him playing in that position until he's been given a run there and see how he performs because there have been matches where he did well and not so well.

Yes. I think it's hard to judge Fabregas' true No.10 output when he is only playing it sporadically when Oscar isn't there, which is rarely more than 1 or 2 games in succession.

I like the concept of Cesc at No.10, but like Jason has said throughout the last couple of pages, I'm yet to be convinced that it works in a Mourinho team. We just seem to lack a bit of punch when Cesc is there over Oscar.