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Oscar


themightyblue
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Belgiannutt, you are clearly a fan... nothing wrong with that, but I don't agree much with what you wrote. For me Hazard is very very far from those two. I honestly don't think he can even reach messi as Messi was already pretty unplayable at Hazard's age.

Don't really appreciate the "You are clearly a fan" could say the same about you regarding Oscar...

You don't agree with what exactly? That Hazard creates more chances then Oscar ? That a lot of Hazard's dribbles are dangerous ? I'd rather you be more specific about it.

When you say "those two " do you mean Messi and Ronaldo or Robben and Ribery ? If you mean Messi, Ronaldo then i agree but then again every player is far behind Messi and Ronaldo. If you mean Robben, Ribery then i stand by what i said "that i think Hazard has been just as good as them (Robben, Ribery) this season".

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Don't really appreciate the "You are clearly a fan" could say the same about you regarding Oscar...

You don't agree with what exactly? That Hazard creates more chances then Oscar ? That a lot of Hazard's dribbles are dangerous ? I'd rather you be more specific about it.

When you say "those two " do you mean Messi and Ronaldo or Robben and Ribery ? If you mean Messi, Ronaldo then i agree but then again every player is far behind Messi and Ronaldo. If you mean Robben, Ribery then i stand by what i said "that i think Hazard has been just as good as them (Robben, Ribery) this season".

oh no I am not a fan of Oscar. I expect him to become a much better player than he is now.

You said that Hazard is not far behind messi, and to me only a fan can say that.

My bad, you said Hazard is not behind Robben (lesser gods), which is not as crazy - fan esque... still pretty controversial. Robben is playing at the top of his game, while Hazard is still improving. Right now Robben is far more consistent as well as dangerous because he scores more goals (shoots better).

For me Robben was pretty much the best player at the WC and Hazard did not show.

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oh no I am not a fan of Oscar. I expect him to become a much better player than he is now.

You said that Hazard is not far behind messi, and to me only a fan can say that.

My bad, you said Hazard is not behind Robben (lesser gods), which is not as crazy - fan esque... still pretty controversial. Robben is playing at the top of his game, while Hazard is still improving. Right now Robben is far more consistent as well as dangerous because he scores more goals (shoots better).

For me Robben was pretty much the best player at the WC and Hazard did not show.

Well Robben does score more but i think Hazard creates more chances then Robben. Robben looks more to cut inside and go for the shot himself while Hazard is more about passing the ball to other players on the edge of the box so they can have a shot at goal.

They're both inverted wingers but with different ways of playing that role. Hazard also plays in a superior league. PL > BL.

I also think Hazard has taken a big step forward this season. He's alot more consistent then he was last season.

I don't think it's such a controversial thing to say but everyone's entitled to their opinion ofcourse.

He was. Really strange that Messi ended up being named the best player. Robben definitely deserved it more.

Hazard didn't have a good WC but i felt he was exhausted by the long season he had.

Still feel it was a stupid decision from our National coach to not give him any extra rest before the WC but ah well.

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Still disappointed with his progression. He lets games pass him by too easily, lets say in comparison look at the difference in Christian Eriksen at Spurs last season to this season. I was reading a Sqwuaka article, hes averaging more touches of the ball per game, more passes, more dribbles, more key passes, more shots, more tackles and in general just influencing and deciding games more than last season and you can see an improvement. Oscar on the other hand, he doesn't look to me as if hes becoming more decisive or influential in the team. Sure we play with more percentage of possession and he surely has more touches of the ball etc but hes hardly influencing games as much as he should be being Chelsea's #10, is he? Its not the first time this has been mentioned either, we will throw Schurrle or Salah under the bus if they play poor despite not being a regulars but seem to object to criticizing Oscar when he hasn't progressed very much since the first 4 or 5 months of last season and has been playing in at least 85% of the games under Mourinho since he returned.

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I think longterm, having either Willian or Oscar will be fine because others will do enough in attack. But with both of them having trouble do anything in several games, we will struggle. Seems like they do fine job in defense and that saves them. Attacking wise, you can throw 100 players who are better than these two, or at least more consistent. But that said, Oscar stats are good, his influence on pitch is other thing though. And should also be counted that Oscar aint pure number 10, he has orders from Mou, most #10s dont have that defensive work.

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Still disappointed with his progression. He lets games pass him by too easily, lets say in comparison look at the difference in Christian Eriksen at Spurs last season to this season. I was reading a Sqwuaka article, hes averaging more touches of the ball per game, more passes, more dribbles, more key passes, more shots, more tackles and in general just influencing and deciding games more than last season and you can see an improvement. Oscar on the other hand, he doesn't look to me as if hes becoming more decisive or influential in the team. Sure we play with more percentage of possession and he surely has more touches of the ball etc but hes hardly influencing games as much as he should be being Chelsea's #10, is he? Its not the first time this has been mentioned either, we will throw Schurrle or Salah under the bus if they play poor despite not being a regulars but seem to object to criticizing Oscar when he hasn't progressed very much since the first 4 or 5 months of last season and has been playing in at least 85% of the games under Mourinho since he returned.

you mean influencing directly more than Hazard and third only to Costa and Fabregas? Because that's how many assists and goals he has (at least for the league) so far, third only to Costa and then Cesc.

I swear people on this site are hard to please. When he was offering crazy work-rate and inheriting the #10 from a player Mourinho didn't think fit his plans, people complained about him not being creative enough. Then he indeed went through a dark period, but despite his small flashiness and shy creativity, he still scored or assisted 8 times in the last 9 league games, and somehow that's still not enough. He's scoring and creating for others to score consistently for the last nine matches we played, but that's still not enough...

Can someone please explain me what they want? Because if those stats I just provided isn't influencing much a game, then I don't know what is... maybe a hundred dribbles in a match without producing one single goal or assist? Maybe defense splitting passes wasted by whoever receives them?

I'd say, fuck off and make up your mind because saying a player that has created or scored 8 goals in 9 matches is as fucking influential as it can get...

I try to find good and constructive criticism about Oscar on this thread, but all I see is people moaning and ignoring facts. When he's due to criticism for having bad stretches of football, I can find them and agree with some, but when he's doing alright is when the BS galore here can't be stopped.

I think longterm, having either Willian or Oscar will be fine because others will do enough in attack. But with both of them having trouble do anything in several games, we will struggle. Seems like they do fine job in defense and that saves them. Attacking wise, you can throw 100 players who are better than these two, or at least more consistent. But that said, Oscar stats are good, his influence on pitch is other thing though. And should also be counted that Oscar aint pure number 10, he has orders from Mou, most #10s dont have that defensive work.

I've been saying the same for a few months... the two of them is redundancy... we need more from 50% of our attack (if you consider the other AM, Eden, and our striker the other 50%).

I like that you separated influence in the pitch from scoreline influence... Oscar presses everywhere, he never stops, he goes deep to get the ball when the team is struggling to get it passed opposition midfield, he's been positioning himself in attacking positions much more than he did (hence the many goals and assists), he's been top3 for distance covered in our latest matches. So I guess he's lacking the dribbles to 'influence more in the pitch'? When you have Hazard (with dribbles and pace) and Cesc (with incredible vision and passing) you don't need Oscar to excel on those things in all honesty. He can do his 'simple' passes - such as the assist to Costa the other day with a backheel, because that's as simple as it gets, I suppose - or his opening goals without having to split defenses or dribble half opposition. And for God's sake I'm not criticizing Hazard at all, I'm just saying we can afford someone like Oscar - who doesn't shine - but who, ironically enough - has been influential in our scorelines for the past month (ignoring that horrendous match against Newcastle and the first half against Scum - which wasn't even for the League anyway), if they continue to do so.

That's why I find it much harder to defend Willian - who also offers a lot pressing, marking, tackling, but add bollocks to our attack and score sheet. Also, for the 23098450856th time, people became so spoiled by the prodigies around that they can't afford to give time for a younger player to develop anymore. If he isn't 'one of Europe's best attacking midfielders' at the senior age of 23 is because he's a lost case and the few years he was given have already ran out. Some logic...

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Its all about perception aint it ?

Last night was a fantastic game of proper football, had averything apart from a glut of goals and all played their hearts out. However if I had to single one out who was below par it would be Oscar.

Weird. I would've said Fabregas.

Wasn't counting but I think Oscar won a lot of 50/50 balls and also put in a good amount of crucial tackles.

Where he lacks for me is in ability to dribble past people. He had two yesterday which represents a good night for him.

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you mean influencing directly more than Hazard and third only to Costa and Fabregas? Because that's how many assists and goals he has (at least for the league) so far, third only to Costa and then Cesc.

I swear people on this site are hard to please. When he was offering crazy work-rate and inheriting the #10 from a player Mourinho didn't think fit his plans, people complained about him not being creative enough. Then he indeed went through a dark period, but despite his small flashiness and shy creativity, he still scored or assisted 8 times in the last 9 league games, and somehow that's still not enough. He's scoring and creating for others to score consistently for the last nine matches we played, but that's still not enough...

Can someone please explain me what they want? Because if those stats I just provided isn't influencing much a game, then I don't know what is... maybe a hundred dribbles in a match without producing one single goal or assist? Maybe defense splitting passes wasted by whoever receives them?

I'd say, fuck off and make up your mind because saying a player that has created or scored 8 goals in 9 matches is as fucking influential as it can get...

I try to find good and constructive criticism about Oscar on this thread, but all I see is people moaning and ignoring facts. When he's due to criticism for having bad stretches of football, I can find them and agree with some, but when he's doing alright is when the BS galore here can't be stopped.

I've been saying the same for a few months... the two of them is redundancy... we need more from 50% of our attack (if you consider the other AM, Eden, and our striker the other 50%).

I like that you separated influence in the pitch from scoreline influence... Oscar presses everywhere, he never stops, he goes deep to get the ball when the team is struggling to get it passed opposition midfield, he's been positioning himself in attacking positions much more than he did (hence the many goals and assists), he's been top3 for distance covered in our latest matches. So I guess he's lacking the dribbles to 'influence more in the pitch'? When you have Hazard (with dribbles and pace) and Cesc (with incredible vision and passing) you don't need Oscar to excel on those things in all honesty. He can do his 'simple' passes - such as the assist to Costa the other day with a backheel, because that's as simple as it gets, I suppose - or his opening goals without having to split defenses or dribble half opposition. And for God's sake I'm not criticizing Hazard at all, I'm just saying we can afford someone like Oscar - who doesn't shine - but who, ironically enough - has been influential in our scorelines for the past month (ignoring that horrendous match against Newcastle and the first half against Scum - which wasn't even for the League anyway), if they continue to do so.

That's why I find it much harder to defend Willian - who also offers a lot pressing, marking, tackling, but add bollocks to our attack and score sheet. Also, for the 23098450856th time, people became so spoiled by the prodigies around that they can't afford to give time for a younger player to develop anymore. If he isn't 'one of Europe's best attacking midfielders' at the senior age of 23 is because he's a lost case and the few years he was given have already ran out. Some logic...

I'm gonna be a bastard here and use the bit in your bio about stats hiding the most important thing which is he isn't anywhere near consistent enough (despite having scored or assisted 8 in the last 9 games which is probably a first for him) or dominate games for large periods. He can be a world class player for both Brazil and Chelsea but he has brief moments in games where he looks like he will do something/he does something and seems to fade out of it or he just isn't there from minute 1 to minute 90 whatever.

It was the same with Hazard last year, people on here (myself included) wasn't just happy that he was scoring one goal or assisting one when you consider his ability and his potential to be a constant threat and perform highly through out a whole match and it is still the same with Oscar, he can do much more. Hazard has been doing it this season, playing very well, even if he doesn't score hes having a major influence, making numerous key passes or numerous dribbles and Oscar can be the same even if he isn't the same style of player as Hazard. Its not that he doesn't make key passes or dribbles etc as well, its just sometimes you see him in a game and think go on look at the space you have get the ball make something happen. Scoring a goal or assisting isn't always everything, how are players meant to be analysed or improve if everyone just goes on about they scored a goal or assisted a goal or scored and assisted so many in so many games.

All I along with everyone else here want Oscar to fulfill his vast vast potential, which he will only do performing at his best consistently and improving the other facets of his game which aren't as good. Nobody has an agenda against him here for christ sake, which you would think reading your post and this isn't the first time I've seen you get all defensive when Oscar is mentioned despite his inconsistency being a major discussion point in this thread to the extent where other members have wanted him replaced (yeah...).

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is he still on course to become "one of the best attacking midfielders in Europe in a few years" or . . . . . .. :D

Yes he is, but not in the unrealistically short timeframe that people have put on him that you mentioned. He will get there, it's just going to take time and unfortunately the keyboard warriors don't understand this...

Younger players are less consistent and I feel Oscar is being constantly judged as a senior player, even when his manager himself says he's work in progress. Even when his peers, most his senior, do not produce consistently either.

Some players do nothing and do not get criticized because they are elegant, flashy, and dribble. Oscar on the other hand has a pretty good number of assists and goals, but is constantly criticized. Assists and goals speak for themselves.

If you really want to look for mediocrity, look no further than the senior players we've got who can't consistently break into the starting XI.

Top quality post. A very true and accurate assessment of the way things are.

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Hope the yellow against Liverpool didnt rule him out of the city game

It would have last season, but the FA changed the amnesty date for yellow card accumulations at the start of this season to make it December 31 instead of February 28, so he now has to get to 10 to be suspended.

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It would have last season, but the FA changed the amnesty date for yellow card accumulations at the start of this season to make it December 31 instead of February 28, so he now has to get to 10 to be suspended.

I'd be surprised if they don't change the rule just for us :lol:

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Simply put - his general contribution to the team can easily be replaced by someone like Ramires or Willian.

Never could you say the same about Hazard.

You couldn't say that about Hazard, but that doesn't mean Oscar is easily replaceable and we are a better or equal team without him.

with the exception of his assist COC match he has done nothing in months. Ramires absence will lead us to believe he is better then he is.

Neither player can replace Oscar, if we look at every game Oscar has played in this season he is easily one of our top 5 player this season.

I glanced at this board a few weeks ago, and I have never seen a player get more critized after his G+A per against Newcastle,

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I'd be surprised if they don't change the rule just for us :lol:

I wouldn't put it beyond them, that's for sure...

It says a lot that if Oscar got suspended or injured for some time that we wouldn't really miss him at all.

I'm sorry, but that is an utterly ridiculous thing to say, absolute rubbish. As far as I'm concerned, taking 6 goals and 7 assists in this year's Premier League campaign out of our team would classify any player who has provided that as being sorely missed.

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