Oscar

[Namika 922]

He was excellent yesterday.

[lionsden 4,689]

So basically we have a glorified ramires playing attacking midfield for us. We need more than workrate from a player operating in an attacking position as he does. He offers absolutely nothing unique that ramires,William and even Salah can't.

It's like praising a dull and academically poor student for having a beautiful handwriting.

[Chelsea? 892]

I'd stick with him just because his potential is higher than anyone else in the #10 position. Oscar on form along with the rest of squad will actually allow us to compete for the CL.

Watch him have a good game Saturday and ppl start acting like I he'd been playing like that all along.

[Barbara 15,149]

The problem is Oscar has been mediocre on the ball. He has been absolutely fine off the ball, more like superb actually, his positional sense is very good, he covers for other players, especially Fabregas, he tracks back, he regain possession often. But all that is his work when he doesn't have the ball. When he's in possession he's been mediocre or bad. I wouldn't have a problem with that if I didn't know he could do better.

Believe me, he can. I think it is clear to anyone if you compare his confidence on the ball for Brazil compared to that for us. It seems he's scared to be in possession, like he doesn't believe he can carry the ball around. This has been annoying me especially now that we have Cesc. Sometimes you will see Fabregas maintain possession against 3 or 4 players and make a pass. Heck, even Costa is doing that. But Oscar tries to release the ball to anyone as soon as he can. When he doesn't do that, he will often stay in place looking for a pass and will end up doing the easy option. I'm sorry Oscar, but you will never be a great player if you play like a coward. There are uncountable times when he'll receive a pass just to pass it back to whoever found him the moment the ball touches his foot. It's like he's telling that player not to pass it to him because he doesn't know what to do with it, hence he doesn't want it. I don't know what has got to him but he needs to fix it asap. Right now fucking Ramires and Mikel are better players ON THE BALL than Oscar and that is worrisome.

I almost agree with you. I even had the same feeling watching the match live - while writing a report and sometimes posting in the live thread. Watching it afterwards only focused on it, he wasn't that bad. It pops to the eye the times he was dispossessed (he was quite a few) and the times he got rid of the ball quickly. But somehow it went unnoticed the times he didn't. He had a bit of everything - which is the norm with Oscar, rarely he excels on something and mixes many things together, good and bad.

Did you have a chance to re-watch it? If you didn't, maybe you could try... he wasn't a coward all the time and although he was incisive enough, he did try to be a few times. I've mentioned two players by him, one of them this one that @DYC. showcased with the vid. He was trying the through ball for Hazard, but as there were too many defenders around Hazard, as usual, and it wasn't an unexpected and surprising pass like Fabregas to Schurrle's goal, it got blocked. The other example I gave was when he was exchanging passes with both Hazard and Costa inside the 18-yard box, but there were others that I didn't remember at the top of our mind.

I did say in my first post about Oscar after the match that what really bothers me is that I know he can do better than that and that I fully agree with you, I just think you've been too harsh on how much he didn't try or didn't do the objective, forward, risky pass. You need to watch carefully the match to see it because most people overlooked even his role in the first goal for us. I didn't, but I didn't want to bring it up because maybe people would label me for something I'm not, so I'm glad DYC did. Fact is without Oscar's header, we wouldn't have recovered possession and there would have been no goal. It was literally two seconds before Iva's pass. Actually I do think I've mentioned it like that before, lol, so I didn't resist.

Did anyone give him credit for that? For the pass he tried to give to Eden? For fighting for recover possession and be intentional in his header as a pass to a teammate? No, because he isn't as flashy as people wanted him to be. That's why I keep saying he doesn't get credit for what he does because what he does is subtle.

But there's no discussion he can be a lot better. He misplaced passes he normally doesn't, he seemed afraid to go forward with the ball in too many occasions and somehow that was the image that lasted when that wasn't how he behaved all the time. Actually it may have not been even how he behaved most time, but it's still what people will talk about... I thought you were too harsh on him in the live thread and I see you keep being even now, but I know at least in your case is because you know him - probably better than most of us - and you're frustrated with his current form and how he has been hiding from the game on too many occasions, so I'm not even criticizing you, I'm just trying to show you the good things he did because sometimes it's hard to see his contributions, lol

btw I miss watching matches with you on Skype. Let's schedule a re-watch again (although I'm not sure you like rewatching matches, I remember last time we did it, I have watched the match live and you haven't and you wanted to watch it, so we did together, but if you don't mind rewatching them, let's do it again some time. It's been a nice experience )

[Dion 2,476]

I almost agree with you. I even had the same feeling watching the match live - while writing a report and sometimes posting in the live thread. Watching it afterwards only focused on it, he wasn't that bad. It pops to the eye the times he was dispossessed (he was quite a few) and the times he got rid of the ball quickly. But somehow it went unnoticed the times he didn't. He had a bit of everything - which is the norm with Oscar, rarely he excels on something and mixes many things together, good and bad.

Did you have a chance to re-watch it? If you didn't, maybe you could try... he wasn't a coward all the time and although he was incisive enough, he did try to be a few times. I've mentioned two players by him, one of them this one that @DYC. showcased with the vid. He was trying the through ball for Hazard, but as there were too many defenders around Hazard, as usual, and it wasn't an unexpected and surprising pass like Fabregas to Schurrle's goal, it got blocked. The other example I gave was when he was exchanging passes with both Hazard and Costa inside the 18-yard box, but there were others that I didn't remember at the top of our mind.

I did say in my first post about Oscar after the match that what really bothers me is that I know he can do better than that and that I fully agree with you, I just think you've been too harsh on how much he didn't try or didn't do the objective, forward, risky pass. You need to watch carefully the match to see it because most people overlooked even his role in the first goal for us. I didn't, but I didn't want to bring it up because maybe people would label me for something I'm not, so I'm glad DYC did. Fact is without Oscar's header, we wouldn't have recovered possession and there would have been no goal. It was literally two seconds before Iva's pass. Actually I do think I've mentioned it like that before, lol, so I didn't resist.

Did anyone give him credit for that? For the pass he tried to give to Eden? For fighting for recover possession and be intentional in his header as a pass to a teammate? No, because he isn't as flashy as people wanted him to be. That's why I keep saying he doesn't get credit for what he does because what he does is subtle.

But there's no discussion he can be a lot better. He misplaced passes he normally doesn't, he seemed afraid to go forward with the ball in too many occasions and somehow that was the image that lasted when that wasn't how he behaved all the time. Actually it may have not been even how he behaved most time, but it's still what people will talk about... I thought you were too harsh on him in the live thread and I see you keep being even now, but I know at least in your case is because you know him - probably better than most of us - and you're frustrated with his current form and how he has been hiding from the game on too many occasions, so I'm not even criticizing you, I'm just trying to show you the good things he did because sometimes it's hard to see his contributions, lol

btw I miss watching matches with you on Skype. Let's schedule a re-watch again (although I'm not sure you like rewatching matches, I remember last time we did it, I have watched the match live and you haven't and you wanted to watch it, so we did together, but if you don't mind rewatching them, let's do it again some time. It's been a nice experience )

We'll do it (watch the games talking on skype) when I'm back to João Pessoa, which should be next week Of course he doesn't shy away when he's on the ball 100% of the time, but it's been happening too often. It gets on my nerves especially when they pass to him, he passes the ball back, they pass it to him and he passes it back AGAIN. Grow a pair for fuck sake. Sometimes he isn't even being THAT pressured, just take the ball to the side with your first touch, giving you time to look around and explore the passing possibilities. Honestly I wish I could talk to Oscar showing him some tapes of his games and show him what he should be doing. He needs guidance and someone like Luiz to tell him he's got it, he's a quality player, there's no need to be afraid.

Holding on to the ball isn't even that difficult, I do it all the time playing against people taller and stronger than me. Dribbling can be more tricky, you need footwork, acceleration, flair helps... but holding possession should be pretty basic for a pro player, it's just a matter of having your body in the space between your opponent and the ball which doesn't even require that much ball control, although the more the better. If he's afraid to move around with the ball it will be difficult to set up plays and help dictating the tempo, this is especially true when he receives the ball with his back faced towards the opposing side, he's not as bad when he's already running towards their goal, but it still could use some improvement. And also the midfield is usually the place where I focus more attention, I'm always observing the positioning and plays from Oscar, Cesc and Matic.

And I can also relate to the problem I'm describing because when I'm not feeling confident in my play I usually tend to have the same patterns as Oscar is showing. You just want to avoid screwing up so you minimize the time you have the ball on your feet, your passing also suffers because not only you won't be in the best position to make them (for not roaming around in possession) but also because you will give it second thoughts, and sometimes that half a second of uncertainty is the difference between a pass going through or being intercepted.

[Myself 793]

FUCK OFF YOIU FUCKING CCUNT GOd damn

don't you just fucking hate it when you click backspace and then your fucking page goes back? FUCK MY LIFFEEEEEE

was writing a fucking article trying to figure out oscars performance from a tactical standpoint and i was fucking proud of what i'd written too

its always when i try to make good posts this shit happens

[Dion 2,476]

FUCK OFF YOIU FUCKING CCUNT GOd damn

don't you just fucking hate it when you click backspace and then your fucking page goes back? FUCK MY LIFFEEEEEE

was writing a fucking article trying to figure out oscars performance from a tactical standpoint and i was fucking proud of what i'd written too

its always when i try to make good posts this shit happens

You should try using the auto save feature then. It saves everything automatically. You could have retrieved your post. It happened to me a couple of times before one of the staff members told me that.

You just have to click "View Auto Saved Content" under the box where you type everything. It would have been there when you returned to this page.

[Myself 793]

You should try using the auto-save feature then. It saves everything automatically. You could have retrieved your post. It happened to me a couple of times before one of the staff members told me that.

I don't see any auto-save button? help plz

[Dion 2,476]

I don't see any auto-save button? help plz

You probably can't do it now, since it has been a while. And it is enabled by default. But try it right now - start writing anything, wait to see the message that it has been auto saved. Then leave the page and return. When you start typing again it will appear under the box, like this:

That inception though...

[zolayes 14,489]

I believe if Makelele was still here he would be criticised for lack of goals and assists.

[ZOS 580]

he was great against Burnley .. the hell people want?

[DYC. 7,542]

If you're focusing on the positives of his performance that's completely fair. But my point is that if that's as good as its gonna get with Oscar, then he won't be here for too long

Can't argue with you there. I honestly wanted Reus as well (greedy, I know). With him, Chelsea would be up there with Bayern and Real.

I honestly don't know what to expect from Oscar this season. But if he can't play a starring role himself, there can only be so many star players in one team anyway, he could support the likes of Hazard and Cesc, making their jobs easier and and helping them achieve a higher level so the collective becomes stronger.

Real have a team filled with stars but you have to realize, that's not normal. Chelsea can't pull that off because they don't have that allure.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Can't argue with you there. I honestly wanted Reus as well (greedy, I know). With him, Chelsea would be up there with Bayern and Real.

I honestly don't know what to expect from Oscar this season. But if he can't play a starring role himself, there can only be so many star players in one team anyway, he could support the likes of Hazard and Cesc, making their jobs easier and and helping them achieve a higher level so the collective becomes stronger.

Real have a team filled with stars but you have to realize, that's not normal. Chelsea can't pull that off because they don't have that allure.

Our team has enough stars as it is this year, tbh.

United fans at Redcafe, drooling all over our starting XI before the match against Burnley:

That Chelsea line up is class.

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That Chelsea lineup is just cheating. Proper FIFA shit right there.

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Now thats some proper football team. Class all over the pitch...

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This chelsea line up is just porn..footyporn.

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Matic and Fabregas is enough to make me weep. A very balanced pairing and utter quality of the highest order.

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I shouldn't but a part of me is looking forward to seeing Chelsea play...

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If Chelsea avoids any major injury problems they will take the league with ease. Scary team.

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Matic - Fabregas midfield two is close to perfection.

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Chelsea's team is ridiculous. I really don't rate Costa though. I think he's good but way overrated and overpriced. Fabregas, Hazard, Matic, Cahill & Terry, Courtois, so strong from back to front.

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That Chelsea team is class. And now that they play for Chelsea, they'll never get injured. Like ever.

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Looking at Chelsea's squad compared to ours is embarrassing, they are so much stronger than us in defense and midfield is worrying.

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I'm expecting Fabregas and Matic to immense for Chelsea this season; very envious of that pairing.

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etc

Our squad might not be filled with stars like Real and Barcelona, but it's certainly good enough to make other clubs' fans very envious. We have classy creative players, amazing dribblers, hard-working players, fast players, good defence, great goalkeeper(s). There are a few vulnerable positions that ideally should be addressed, but truth be told, if I didn't support Chelsea, I'd be envious of our squad too. Now hopefully Jose can turn them into a well-oiled team.

[bababoom 4,478]

Real have a team filled with stars but you have to realize, that's not normal. Chelsea can't pull that off because they don't have that allure.

I agree, but i wouldn't want Chelsea to be full of stars. We are finally balanced whereas Madrid are all over the the place.

[We Hate Scouse 10,260]

FUCK OFF YOIU FUCKING CCUNT GOd damn

don't you just fucking hate it when you click backspace and then your fucking page goes back? FUCK MY LIFFEEEEEE

was writing a fucking article trying to figure out oscars performance from a tactical standpoint and i was fucking proud of what i'd written too

its always when i try to make good posts this shit happens

Thought you was talking about Oscar at first....

[Tomo 21,681]

I agree, but i wouldn't want Chelsea to be full of stars. We are finally balanced whereas Madrid are all over the the place.

Exactly, I genuinely think we would beat this Madrid side more often than not, the AMs won't do there defensive work and if as expected Kross and Modric are the pivot then no true DM protecting an already weak back line.

I think they will be a better version of Liverpool last season, will smash some shit teams into submission, but ultimately come unstuck when the likes of Simeone or Mourinho turns up with a smart tactical approach.

[Barbara 15,149]

I re-watched the whole first half again in a more tactical and detailed way. And yes, people were absolutely unfair on Oscar - including me in my first assessment of his performance.

1) If you watch closely the whole team at times played the ball fast, getting rid of it quickly to the closest teammate. I think it's something Mourinho asked - they drilled those things a lot, Mourinho talked about drilling those things as well (quick passing under pressure or not). But only Oscar was criticized for that, but I saw Fàbregas, Hazard, Costa, Schurrle, Matic doing it at least a handful times each.

2) During the whole first half Oscar was the guy who set our attack in motion at least five times (I didn't count, but I remember at least five at the top of my mind) and by setting it in motion I don't mean starting it near the CBs, but changing the tempo and actually making the ball reach our attackers near or inside the 18-yard box. Our very first time reaching the final third was a long ball by him to Costa - an accurate one. At least three times his pass was the immediate one before the potential assist from a shot on goal, a blocked shot or a last minute tackle by the defense.

I don't blame anyone for not noticing the good things he did, he wasn't spectacular in the eye and in a night where Cesc, Iva, Costa, Hazard and Schurrle were really eye popping, is hard to catch little basic Oscar doing his thing. When I watched live I was working and I can never watch matches properly while writing reports of the highlights at the same time and I thought he was meh. Not good, not bad with a few atypical misplaced passes. Then the second time I've watched streaks of the match - basically from many individual vids (Cesc, Costa, Hazard) I realized that Oscar was involved in a relevant way at least three times. Now I really rewatched the match (first half only though) and I paid attention to our movement, positioning and players and my eye often caught him and also something else someone pointed out in the Ivanovic thread, that I'll be there in a bit to discuss.

All in all I think that was his best match since the Southampton one in January (if I remember correctly he did well against Arsenal as well and another match). It's still far from the matches he did early last season for us, but at the same time with now so many guys with better tools than him - whether it's dribbling, pace, vision, passing - I don't think we'll see much of those matches anymore. Jack of all trades, master of none (maybe except recovering possession in the final third) that he is, someone will always look better than him with their dribbles, runs, passes, through balls and therefore will be more influential, but he'll contribute in his discreet way... he isn't flashy, he looks awkward on the ball, he seems clumsy sometimes and he doesn't aspire much confidence because of his nearly uncomfortable-looking style of conducting the ball and passing, but he does contribute in his own way. He isn't on his best physical condition yet so I think he will improve his passing and finish some, but he'll mainly set the stage for others to shine. I think it's a fitting role given that he isn't a 9+ player in any aspect of his game...

[Myself 793]

I re-watched the whole first half again in a more tactical and detailed way. And yes, people were absolutely unfair on Oscar - including me in my first assessment of his performance.

1) If you watch closely the whole team at times played the ball fast, getting rid of it quickly to the closest teammate. I think it's something Mourinho asked - they drilled those things a lot, Mourinho talked about drilling those things as well (quick passing under pressure or not). But only Oscar was criticized for that, but I saw Fàbregas, Hazard, Costa, Schurrle, Matic doing it at least a handful times each.

2) During the whole first half Oscar was the guy who set our attack in motion at least five times (I didn't count, but I remember at least five at the top of my mind) and by setting it in motion I don't mean starting it near the CBs, but changing the tempo and actually making the ball reach our attackers near or inside the 18-yard box. Our very first time reaching the final third was a long ball by him to Costa - an accurate one. At least three times his pass was the immediate one before the potential assist from a shot on goal, a blocked shot or a last minute tackle by the defense.

I don't blame anyone for not noticing the good things he did, he wasn't spectacular in the eye and in a night where Cesc, Iva, Costa, Hazard and Schurrle were really eye popping, is hard to catch little basic Oscar doing his thing. When I watched live I was working and I can never watch matches properly while writing reports of the highlights at the same time and I thought he was meh. Not good, not bad with a few atypical misplaced passes. Then the second time I've watched streaks of the match - basically from many individual vids (Cesc, Costa, Hazard) I realized that Oscar was involved in a relevant way at least three times. Now I really rewatched the match (first half only though) and I paid attention to our movement, positioning and players and my eye often caught him and also something else someone pointed out in the Ivanovic thread, that I'll be there in a bit to discuss.

All in all I think that was his best match since the Southampton one in January (if I remember correctly he did well against Arsenal as well and another match). It's still far from the matches he did early last season for us, but at the same time with now so many guys with better tools than him - whether it's dribbling, pace, vision, passing - I don't think we'll see much of those matches anymore. Jack of all trades, master of none (maybe except recovering possession in the final third) that he is, someone will always look better than him with their dribbles, runs, passes, through balls and therefore will be more influential, but he'll contribute in his discreet way... he isn't flashy, he looks awkward on the ball, he seems clumsy sometimes and he doesn't aspire much confidence because of his nearly uncomfortable-looking style of conducting the ball and passing, but he does contribute in his own way. He isn't on his best physical condition yet so I think he will improve his passing and finish some, but he'll mainly set the stage for others to shine. I think it's a fitting role given that he isn't a 9+ player in any aspect of his game...

That was what I was going to fucking write, but NOOOOOO my fucking computer decides to fuck me over.

That was a good read, Barbara. Completely agree.