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BlueLion.

Oscar

Started by BlueLion.,

12,579 posts in this topic

you mean influencing directly more than Hazard and third only to Costa and Fabregas? Because that's how many assists and goals he has (at least for the league) so far, third only to Costa and then Cesc.

I swear people on this site are hard to please. When he was offering crazy work-rate and inheriting the #10 from a player Mourinho didn't think fit his plans, people complained about him not being creative enough. Then he indeed went through a dark period, but despite his small flashiness and shy creativity, he still scored or assisted 8 times in the last 9 league games, and somehow that's still not enough. He's scoring and creating for others to score consistently for the last nine matches we played, but that's still not enough...

Can someone please explain me what they want? Because if those stats I just provided isn't influencing much a game, then I don't know what is... maybe a hundred dribbles in a match without producing one single goal or assist? Maybe defense splitting passes wasted by whoever receives them?

I'd say, fuck off and make up your mind because saying a player that has created or scored 8 goals in 9 matches is as fucking influential as it can get...

I try to find good and constructive criticism about Oscar on this thread, but all I see is people moaning and ignoring facts. When he's due to criticism for having bad stretches of football, I can find them and agree with some, but when he's doing alright is when the BS galore here can't be stopped.

I've been saying the same for a few months... the two of them is redundancy... we need more from 50% of our attack (if you consider the other AM, Eden, and our striker the other 50%).

I like that you separated influence in the pitch from scoreline influence... Oscar presses everywhere, he never stops, he goes deep to get the ball when the team is struggling to get it passed opposition midfield, he's been positioning himself in attacking positions much more than he did (hence the many goals and assists), he's been top3 for distance covered in our latest matches. So I guess he's lacking the dribbles to 'influence more in the pitch'? When you have Hazard (with dribbles and pace) and Cesc (with incredible vision and passing) you don't need Oscar to excel on those things in all honesty. He can do his 'simple' passes - such as the assist to Costa the other day with a backheel, because that's as simple as it gets, I suppose - or his opening goals without having to split defenses or dribble half opposition. And for God's sake I'm not criticizing Hazard at all, I'm just saying we can afford someone like Oscar - who doesn't shine - but who, ironically enough - has been influential in our scorelines for the past month (ignoring that horrendous match against Newcastle and the first half against Scum - which wasn't even for the League anyway), if they continue to do so.

That's why I find it much harder to defend Willian - who also offers a lot pressing, marking, tackling, but add bollocks to our attack and score sheet. Also, for the 23098450856th time, people became so spoiled by the prodigies around that they can't afford to give time for a younger player to develop anymore. If he isn't 'one of Europe's best attacking midfielders' at the senior age of 23 is because he's a lost case and the few years he was given have already ran out. Some logic...

I'm gonna be a bastard here and use the bit in your bio about stats hiding the most important thing which is he isn't anywhere near consistent enough (despite having scored or assisted 8 in the last 9 games which is probably a first for him) or dominate games for large periods. He can be a world class player for both Brazil and Chelsea but he has brief moments in games where he looks like he will do something/he does something and seems to fade out of it or he just isn't there from minute 1 to minute 90 whatever.

It was the same with Hazard last year, people on here (myself included) wasn't just happy that he was scoring one goal or assisting one when you consider his ability and his potential to be a constant threat and perform highly through out a whole match and it is still the same with Oscar, he can do much more. Hazard has been doing it this season, playing very well, even if he doesn't score hes having a major influence, making numerous key passes or numerous dribbles and Oscar can be the same even if he isn't the same style of player as Hazard. Its not that he doesn't make key passes or dribbles etc as well, its just sometimes you see him in a game and think go on look at the space you have get the ball make something happen. Scoring a goal or assisting isn't always everything, how are players meant to be analysed or improve if everyone just goes on about they scored a goal or assisted a goal or scored and assisted so many in so many games.

All I along with everyone else here want Oscar to fulfill his vast vast potential, which he will only do performing at his best consistently and improving the other facets of his game which aren't as good. Nobody has an agenda against him here for christ sake, which you would think reading your post and this isn't the first time I've seen you get all defensive when Oscar is mentioned despite his inconsistency being a major discussion point in this thread to the extent where other members have wanted him replaced (yeah...).

didierforever likes this

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is he still on course to become "one of the best attacking midfielders in Europe in a few years" or . . . . . .. :D

Yes he is, but not in the unrealistically short timeframe that people have put on him that you mentioned. He will get there, it's just going to take time and unfortunately the keyboard warriors don't understand this...

Younger players are less consistent and I feel Oscar is being constantly judged as a senior player, even when his manager himself says he's work in progress. Even when his peers, most his senior, do not produce consistently either.

Some players do nothing and do not get criticized because they are elegant, flashy, and dribble. Oscar on the other hand has a pretty good number of assists and goals, but is constantly criticized. Assists and goals speak for themselves.

If you really want to look for mediocrity, look no further than the senior players we've got who can't consistently break into the starting XI.

Top quality post. A very true and accurate assessment of the way things are.

Barbara and Robguima like this

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Hope the yellow against Liverpool didnt rule him out of the city game

It would have last season, but the FA changed the amnesty date for yellow card accumulations at the start of this season to make it December 31 instead of February 28, so he now has to get to 10 to be suspended.

kellzfresh, Barbara and BlueLion. like this

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It would have last season, but the FA changed the amnesty date for yellow card accumulations at the start of this season to make it December 31 instead of February 28, so he now has to get to 10 to be suspended.

I'd be surprised if they don't change the rule just for us :lol:

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It says a lot that if Oscar got suspended or injured for some time that we wouldn't really miss him at all.

That is intresting conclusion, I would like to know how do you conclude that?

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Simply put - his general contribution to the team can easily be replaced by someone like Ramires or Willian.

Never could you say the same about Hazard.

You couldn't say that about Hazard, but that doesn't mean Oscar is easily replaceable and we are a better or equal team without him.

with the exception of his assist COC match he has done nothing in months. Ramires absence will lead us to believe he is better then he is.

Neither player can replace Oscar, if we look at every game Oscar has played in this season he is easily one of our top 5 player this season.

I glanced at this board a few weeks ago, and I have never seen a player get more critized after his G+A per against Newcastle,

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I'd be surprised if they don't change the rule just for us :lol:

I wouldn't put it beyond them, that's for sure...

It says a lot that if Oscar got suspended or injured for some time that we wouldn't really miss him at all.

I'm sorry, but that is an utterly ridiculous thing to say, absolute rubbish. As far as I'm concerned, taking 6 goals and 7 assists in this year's Premier League campaign out of our team would classify any player who has provided that as being sorely missed.

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I personally feel that Oscar is an important part of our team. Sure he isn't up there with the best no.10s in the world yet but he's still the 2nd best no.10 in the PL (behind Silva, who is awesome tbh). He's better than Mata, Coutinho, Ozil and Eriksen (who are all very good themselves) IMO because he is very good in defence as well as being good in attack too. He effectively links our midfield and our attack and is contributing with a large amount of goals and assists so far this season.

He's nowhere near the complete player and hasn't progressed as much as most of us were hoping but he is still very young and has time to keep developing to make himself into a top player. He needs to work on his passing (which at times can be erratic - so frustrating to watch a player play a 25 yard through ball perfectly then muff up a 5 yard sideways pass) and his worrying tendency to go missing in games (doesn't happen that often to be fair, but still worrying).

I personally still have high hopes for him to make his passing game more complete and to become more consistent as a footballer. He's currently a very good footballer and is an important player in our system. Unless we plan on signing someone notably better than him in his position (Who is there really? Isco? Doubt he's available for a non-ridiculous price) I am very happy to persist with believing in Oscar and hoping that he will develop his game in the next 2/3 years and can become a Chelsea legend.

CFC888, Robguima and pattieboyd like this

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Some players like? Who in the CFC team is only flashy and elegant but doesn't get criticised? I hope you're not talking about Eden because's Eden's is streets ahead of Oscar.

You can't justify this or how good Oscar is by targeting other players in the team sorry...

It says a lot that if Oscar got suspended or injured for some time that we wouldn't really miss him at all.

Great comment. City game last year at the Etihad (I think it was the Etihad because we were the first team to beat them there all season), which was a massive game, Ramires started ahead of Oscar and was brilliant with Luiz and Matic in a 3 man midfield.

Anyway anyone using the excuse that Oscar doesn't look as good as Hazard because he isn't flashy is quite frankly a moron. What a stupid thing to say. Hazards consistency and end ball is miles ahead of Oscar's as well as the fact he takes the game to the opposition most times whenever he can.

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I personally feel that Oscar is an important part of our team. Sure he isn't up there with the best no.10s in the world yet but he's still the 2nd best no.10 in the PL (behind Silva, who is awesome tbh). He's better than Mata, Coutinho, Ozil and Eriksen (who are all very good themselves) IMO because he is very good in defence as well as being good in attack too. He effectively links our midfield and our attack and is contributing with a large amount of goals and assists so far this season.

He's nowhere near the complete player and hasn't progressed as much as most of us were hoping but he is still very young and has time to keep developing to make himself into a top player. He needs to work on his passing (which at times can be erratic - so frustrating to watch a player play a 25 yard through ball perfectly then muff up a 5 yard sideways pass) and his worrying tendency to go missing in games (doesn't happen that often to be fair, but still worrying).

I personally still have high hopes for him to make his passing game more complete and to become more consistent as a footballer. He's currently a very good footballer and is an important player in our system. Unless we plan on signing someone notably better than him in his position (Who is there really? Isco? Doubt he's available for a non-ridiculous price) I am very happy to persist with believing in Oscar and hoping that he will develop his game in the next 2/3 years and can become a Chelsea legend.

Found myself nodding as I was reading this post, couldn't agree more.

I've bolded one bit that I particularly like. I think Oscar's defensive/pressing efforts are outstanding, and really they don't get the credit that they deserve. The boy has quite a slight frame, but he is not afraid to throw what there is of him around to try and win the ball for his team, which is great for us. If he's not putting a tackle in, he's at least getting in towards the player on the ball to pressure them into a quick decision. This is something that he and Diego both do very well - I doubt there's a front two in the league that do it better.

The point about him being the link between our midfield and attack is also a very good one, and when Mikel starts instead of Oscar with Cesc further forward, we seem to be missing that link that Oscar gives, which just shows his importance to our team.

Fantastic post, Viper!

Viper22 likes this

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@CFC888 I was going to reply to your post and then I noticed your avi picture and favourite player and suddenly it all makes sense How you are defending Oscar so passionately and that it would simply be a waste of time to engage you in this debate.

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Great comment. City game last year at the Etihad (I think it was the Etihad because we were the first team to beat them there all season), which was a massive game, Ramires started ahead of Oscar and was brilliant with Luiz and Matic in a 3 man midfield.

Anyway anyone using the excuse that Oscar doesn't look as good as Hazard because he isn't flashy is quite frankly a moron. What a stupid thing to say. Hazards consistency and end ball is miles ahead of Oscar's as well as the fact he takes the game to the opposition most times whenever he can.

no, I implied that Hazard looks better than he actually is because he is flashy, and Oscar doesn't look as good as he actually is, because he isn't. If you disagree, or even think it's also a moronic idea, that's fine by me. :)

Some players like? Who in the CFC team is only flashy and elegant but doesn't get criticised? I hope you're not talking about Eden because's Eden's is streets ahead of Oscar.

You can't justify this or how good Oscar is by targeting other players in the team sorry...

It says a lot that if Oscar got suspended or injured for some time that we wouldn't really miss him at all.

Eden is indeed ahead of Oscar even though they are very different players even complementary! The difference however, isn't as big as people make it out to be. Eden has had quite a few quiet games lately including this week against Liverpool. His measurable contribution was low. He's had very quiet runs of games too, like in the world cup. Against City away Eden couldn't complete a single play. Against Liverpool he had trouble assisting, squandering an excellent chance when Oscar was completely open and he put too much weight on his pass. Assists and goals decide games not dribbling on its own.

For me both of them need to improve. Again, Hazard is indeed ahead of Oscar, but both need improving to get to the next stage in their careers, and begin challenge the top players. And Chelsea need both of them to become better players, to become a force in Europe and challenge Real, Bayern, and Barcelona - don't think we are quite there yet.

Another way to look at it: if Eden, Oscar, and perhaps Willian develop as Chelsea (and Jose) want them to, we will be able to challenge the top teams. If they do not, however, then we will have to buy (very expensive and perhaps unavailable) players in order to do that (challenge the top European sides). People around here may not have the patience to wait, but clearly the club is willing to bet on it.

CFC888 likes this

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no, I implied that Hazard looks better than he actually is because he is flashy, and Oscar doesn't look as good as he actually is, because he isn't. If you disagree, or even think it's also a moronic idea, that's fine by me. :)

Eden is indeed ahead of Oscar even though they are very different players even complementary! The difference however, isn't as big as people make it out to be. Eden has had quite a few quiet games lately including this week against Liverpool. His measurable contribution was low. He's had very quiet runs of games too, like in the world cup. Against City away Eden couldn't complete a single play. Against Liverpool he had trouble assisting, squandering an excellent chance when Oscar was completely open and he put too much weight on his pass. Assists and goals decide games not dribbling on its own.

For me both of them need to improve. Again, Hazard is indeed ahead of Oscar, but both need improving to get to the next stage in their careers, and begin challenge the top players. And Chelsea need both of them to become better players, to become a force in Europe and challenge Real, Bayern, and Barcelona - don't think we are quite there yet.

Another way to look at it: if Eden, Oscar, and perhaps Willian develop as Chelsea (and Jose) want them to, we will be able to challenge the top teams. If they do not, however, then we will have to buy (very expensive and perhaps unavailable) players in order to do that (challenge the top European sides). People around here may not have the patience to wait, but clearly the club is willing to bet on it.

Being flashy doesn't mean you look better than you are. Hazard is hardly flashy either, Quaresma was flashy, Nani flashy at times, Cristiano Ronaldo when he was younger but Hazard isn't exactly flashy. Football is simple, everyone appreciates players who can do something simple that's effective and especially at this club when we had Makelele in that holding role, he was loved because of the simple nature and effectiveness of his game. Busquets is another one I like to watch because of the simpleness in his game and also the effectiveness.

Oscar does simple things but he can do so much more as I've said in other posts. Its nothing to do with him not doing as much tricks or skills either lol its stuff like influencing the play or being a constant threat in the game or taking it by the scruff of the neck. Players like Eriksen, Barkley, Silva all number 10's in various other teams you see them doing this time and time again and think Oscar should be doing that. Great players dominate games, Oscar can be a great player yes but if hes not consistent enough or say shys away from the game at times he won't dominate games.

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Simply put - his general contribution to the team can easily be replaced by someone like Ramires or Willian.

Never could you say the same about Hazard.

chelsea did well without hazard against Liverpool last season and won without against PSG.

2 of the biggest wins last season. Only player that is irreplaceable is JT, since Cahill sucks and diego Costa.

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