Rumoured Luke Shaw

[Spike 12,049]

Bertrand could always be converted to a byline winger...

[Rmpr 8,977]

Both have potential and neither are finished article just yet. Bertrand might turn out to be the better one, who knows?

It just seems that people want Shaw mainly because he's a Chelsea fan and had a couple of decent performances against us.

Bertrand was patient and worked hard through the ranks to be where he is now. He deserves to have a right go playing at LB before being written off completely. Furthermore, he is still young and developing. All this change in managers recently wouldn't have helped either.

Exactly. Who knows if Shaw will be better or not?

Both are worth taking the risk, but Bertrand has earned the right to be, at least, tested first.

I will be honest and say I think Shaw will be a much better player, but I definetly agree with you there!

[JDY 1,290]

No, thats often been more the exception to the rule then the rule,

If you bothered reading my post i said buy him and loan him and see what happens,im all for buying young players, but you need experience not just talent.I just dont think the other 2 should be cast aside just yet either, especially not for a 17 year old no matter how much promise he's apparently showed.

The whole idea that Bertrand is far more experienced than Shaw is simply not true. Aged 23, Bertrand has made 16 starting appearances in the Premier League. Aged 17, Shaw has made 15 starting appearances in the Premier League. The fact that Shaw has made the step from youth standard football to first team football in one of the toughest league's in the world is impressive. The truth is that both are inexperienced players, but at the moment Shaw just looks the better and more promising player.

[The Skipper 20,593]

The whole idea that Bertrand is far more experienced than Shaw is simply not true. Aged 23, Bertrand has made 16 starting appearances in the Premier League. Aged 17, Shaw has made 15 starting appearances in the Premier League. The fact that Shaw has made the step from youth standard football to first team football in one of the toughest league's in the world is impressive. The truth is that both are inexperienced players, but at the moment Shaw just looks the better and more promising player.

Ryan Bertrand has over 200 football league games under his belt. Of course he's more experienced. If Bertrand came through t Southampton instead of CFC whilst Southampton were in the PL he'd have many more games under his belt.

[JDY 1,290]

Ryan Bertrand has over 200 football league games under his belt. Of course he's more experienced. If Bertrand came through t Southampton instead of CFC whilst Southampton were in the PL he'd have many more games under his belt.

I'm talking about at the top level, both players are inexperienced.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Having to choose who I would want out of our starting left-back out of Shaw, van Aanholt or Bertrand, I'd go for Shaw.

In fact, 9 times out of 10 I'd pick Shaw over Cole. Coley hasn't exactly had the most fantastic of seasons. There have been a lot of games when he has seriously struggled this season (though a large part of this is down to the non-existent support he gets from the midfield three).

Shaw is only 17 and already good enough to be a starting full-back for any Premier League team. Think how good he'll be in six years...

200 appearances. 2 England caps. When do you start to judge a player?

Shaw's a guy who has been thrown into a tough situation and held his own against players twice his age. Not just held his own, but been mightily impressive whilst doing it. What do we do? Wait until he's got a couple of England caps and his price has doubled?

Which player looked better at 17? Shaw or Bertrand?

(The answer is Shaw by the way)

Actually, different question. Which one is better right now?

Shaw, but that is based on him playing every game for his club this season, in comparison to Bertrand who has only 15 starts, most of which in an unfamiliar wing position. If you gave Bertrand a string of 15-20 games at left-back, I'm sure he could do a decent job for us.

However, as I previously posted, based on raw potential and how well they are faring right now, you'd have to go for Shaw, wouldn't you? Every time I see Bertrand I have my doubts over him.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Just found out that shaw's height is 1.85m.Thats very big for a fullback.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The one thing that sets Shaw apart from Bertrand is the same thing that has always set Chalobah away from his contemporaries - composure. Top class players always look like they have at least a second's more time on the ball than every one else around them and unfortunately that seems to be something people either have or don't have, especially when they're still teenagers.

The other thing about Ryan (and I hate to pick on him because he's a good lad) is that he's always seemed a little too happy just waiting for Cole to hang up the boots and take over. Now I'm not going to say young pros should bitch and moan but look at Lukaku - he was genuinely pissed not to be playing and he went on loan and showed everyone what they were missing out on. Yes it's hard for a left-back to set the world on fire by the very nature of their position and he is a very capable player, but I've never really seen in him what I've seen in Shaw.

But then again, I thought Jon Harley was the next Le Saux so I could be very wrong and Ryan could be the guy for the next decade, and I'd be delighted at that.

[zolayes 14,489]

ANOTHER buy and loan out

[Styles 9,790]

Bertrand is a dependable squad player but unlikely to be much more. In Shaw you have potentially a very, very good player who could go on to be one of the best 2-3 leftbacks in World football. Bertrand doesn't have the same potential, there's nothing wrong in admitting that.

[Amblève. 4,995]

In fact, 9 times out of 10 I'd pick Shaw over Cole. Coley hasn't exactly had the most fantastic of seasons.

It's kinda early for April Fools' jokes, don't you think?

[Leif 6,006]

I feel like Shaw will basically be the next Baines if anyone - not Cole or Bale - and that's not at all a bad thing, is it?

[Billy. 2,739]

Luke Shaw is the next best LB for England he is so much better than Ryan imo

[Peace. 4,352]

In the Lazar Markovic, I've already speak my mind regarding the youths. When we see a young player which seems to have a bright future ahead of himself, we shouldn't hesitate to buy him. We shouldn't be too cocky and be like "Oh, but we already have X who, eventually, could turn out to be the new Y if all planets are aligned the XX/XX/201X...". Notice how I did put the emphasis on the conditional words.

Every young players is a risk. Nobody can profess that a youngster will live up to the expectations. We can gauge his future level, but that's all. He can be better than what we thought ; he can turn out to not be good enough to be in a major league ; he can pick up a pretty bad injury and following that having to stop his carreer ; can envolve into a different kind of player (moving from left-winger to left-back, for example) etc...

Statically wise, out of all the kids typed as the next big thing, how many of them eventually live up to the expectations ? 10%, 20% ? Not more. The rest become average players or/and fall into the deep darkness of the anonymity. That means, we shouldn't put all our eggs into the same basket — and here that basket is Ryan.

On the one hand, we have Ryan Bertrand. Some times ago now, he was typed as the next Cole, the next England left-back, et cetera... However, for some times now, his development seems to have stalled. Is it because he doesn't get enough playing time ? Is it because he has reached his limits ? Is it because of a drop of form ? Is it because he is too bothered with the stamps collection he has started this summer ? Is it... I do not know. But the important thing here, is not to know why he seems to have stalled, but to have noticed that he seems to have stalled. This way, we can take our precaution and act early. As the saying goes "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

On the second hand, we have Luke Shaw. Ima be honest here, I have seen him playing just once, so I am not going to judge him by myself. From what I read/hear here and there, people seem to agreed on one thing : he already looks like a decent Premier League player and he shows great promises. To start 15 games in Premier League at only 17, you must not be a donkey, are you not ?

Bertrand is 23 years-old — Shaw 17. By the time of his 25th birthday, we are gonna most likely know whether Ryan will make it or no, right ? By this time, Luke will be 19 years-old. For the debate sake, let's say we buy Shaw for about the same price Arsenal bought Oxlade-Chamberlaine, i.e. 15 millions pounds. In two years, we will have many answers : whether Ryan's gonna be good enough to be our starting LB ; whether we need another LB ; and we will have a better point of view to know whether Shaw will make it, and thus whether we should keep him or not. In the best case, both will turn out to be World-Class and we will be like the Oil kings. We could sell one of them and thus make profit, or keep both and have two great LB. In another case, Bertrand could turn out to be good enough, and Shaw "meh". If that happens, then we will have our starting LB, and Luke as a cover which is home-grown. In another case, Shaw might as well turn out to be a big flop. But at that time, he will be only 19/20 years-old — I am pretty sure that there would be two or three teams out there willing to try him out — thus we would be able to recoup some money.

All in all, it's pretty much a win/win situation. Even in the worst case, we would not lose that much.

So the bottom line is : to my eyes, all the lights are green to sign him. If this young dude is as good as what you guys making sound, plus bearing in mind that he is home-grown and a Chelsea fan, then it would be a shame to lose him out.

[Strike 6,958]

@Peace., @, and the others picking Shaw over Bertrand/PvA

why not wait to see if Bertrand or PvA develop? PvA has been the best LB in the Eredivisie this season and with good reason. he favours attacking as well (see his goal vs Ajax - classic LB overlap goal)

Regarding Bertrand, I remember last year when everyone was going on about Bertrand after his performances at The Emirates. he didn't turn into a bad player overnight. he has played an awful lot of games at Left Mid this season and a decent run at Left-Back could see him return to the form he was in last season.

Luke Shaw is an excellent LB, i agree but as he said, he would prefer to continue development at Southampton - signed a 5 year (?) contract last month. i believe we should assess our internal options first before jumping onto Luke Shaw. maybe in a few years, this deal makes a lot of sense

[BlueLion. 21,491]

It's kinda early for April Fools' jokes, don't you think?

People who think Cole has been anywhere near good overall this season are blinded by loyalty in the same way they think Drogba is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

@Peace., @, and the others picking Shaw over Bertrand/PvA

why not wait to see if Bertrand or PvA develop? PvA has been the best LB in the Eredivisie this season and with good reason. he favours attacking as well (see his goal vs Ajax - classic LB overlap goal)

Regarding Bertrand, I remember last year when everyone was going on about Bertrand after his performances at The Emirates. he didn't turn into a bad player overnight. he has played an awful lot of games at Left Mid this season and a decent run at Left-Back could see him return to the form he was in last season.

Luke Shaw is an excellent LB, i agree but as he said, he would prefer to continue development at Southampton - signed a 5 year (?) contract last month. i believe we should assess our internal options first before jumping onto Luke Shaw. maybe in a few years, this deal makes a lot of sense

Granted, I even said that a few posts back. RB34 needs a string of matches at left-back to prove himself.

[Peace. 4,352]

@Peace., @, and the others picking Shaw over Bertrand/PvA

why not wait to see if Bertrand or PvA develop? PvA has been the best LB in the Eredivisie this season and with good reason. he favours attacking as well (see his goal vs Ajax - classic LB overlap goal)

Regarding Bertrand, I remember last year when everyone was going on about Bertrand after his performances at The Emirates. he didn't turn into a bad player overnight. he has played an awful lot of games at Left Mid this season and a decent run at Left-Back could see him return to the form he was in last season.

Luke Shaw is an excellent LB, i agree but as he said, he would prefer to continue development at Southampton - signed a 5 year (?) contract last month. i believe we should assess our internal options first before jumping onto Luke Shaw. maybe in a few years, this deal makes a lot of sense

First of all, I have never said that we should not wait and see how Bertrand (or Van Aanholt) develops. Read back my previous post.

From what I understand of your comment, you are suggesting that we should wait and see how our two LB develop, and then, if they turn out to not be as good as we thought, maybe go for Luke Shaw. That what I was mentioning in my previous post : that's what we call putting your eggs in the same basket.

And you go on about the form that Ryan has last year. My answer is pretty simple. Do you remember when, back in the days, people didn't want us to sign Lukas Modric because we already had Josh McEachran ? Now tell me where Josh's at. Didn't we thought that we had a gem in Gaël Kakuta ? He wasn't able to fulfil his potential. Didn't we deemed Sam Hutchinson the next captain of this club ? He might hang up his boot because of his knee. Didn't we thought that we had a future great center-back in Jeffrey Bruma ? Didn't we thought we had the next big thing in Scott Sinclair ? Didn't we thought, at some point, that Micheal Mancienne will turn out to be a good player ? Et cetera...

Every fans tend to overrate the youngsters from their own team. That's normal. We tend to do it even more since we are desperate to finaly see a product of our academy playing for us. I am not saying that Bertrand is overrated, not at all. I am just saying that we shouldn't get carried on because of a few promising performances. Instead, we should get carried away only after a promising season — and that's not the case at the moment.

Okay, let's take the time to assess Ryan and Patrick before going for Shaw. Fine. But what if they turn out to be not good enough for us ?! By that time, if Shaw keeps it up, plus the fact he is english, he could as well be worth £30m — or even worse, he could sign for Manchester United (or another team). Brilliant. We will have to look to splash a lot of money to get an above average foreign player while we could have bought an english talent for less.

For the past years, we have built castles into the air with our youngsters, again and again and again. That has to stop. We should act before something happens — not react after the occurrence. We have to anticipate things, not to wait for them.

I am not writing off neither Bertran nor Van Aanholt. I am not saying that we should outcast them to buy Shaw. Non, all I am saying is that we shouldn't lose out our chances to get a talent such as Luke Shaw because they COULD* be very good for us.

* Could — which is used to indicate a possibility — is the key word, here.

[Amblève. 4,995]

People who think Cole has been anywhere near good overall this season are blinded by loyalty in the same way they think Drogba is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Granted, I even said that a few posts back. RB34 needs a string of matches at left-back to prove himself.

Those who think Shaw is better than Cole need to watch their games more closely. Cole has declined, I don't think anyone will disagree, but it's absolutely ridiculous to think Shaw is anywhere near as good as Ash. People get too carried away by what Cole and the other greats have done in the past, making them think that they're shite now.