Eden Hazard

[different level 1,056]

Speaking of player comparison I was thinking of something else. How do you think our Eden stands next to Spurs' monkey boy?

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Speaking of player comparison I was thinking of something else. How do you think our Eden stands next to Spurs' monkey boy?

Bale better finisher,better shooter,a lot more pace,generally better crosser while hazard better passer,better vision,better ball contol plus better dribbler in tight areas and more two footed.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Why not. The second part of the post was actually a comparison in itself :-) i found that quite funny. Contradictio in terminis.

Actually what he said is that you wouldn't say Hazard is miles ahead if you saw how brilliant Kagawa was at Dortmund which is just an objective observation.

Comparing 2 attacking players in their first season in the PL is Childish how? Not saying it makes sense comparing them, as indeed they are pretty different players in general, but it's normal, it's food for discussion. Especially on a forum.

Would be a dull affair without these kind of discussions mate.

I actually wasn't expressing that as my opinion just saying that Peace said it. But I actually agree with him because, in this particular case, it just seems like a case of "my father can beat up your father". I would agree 100% with you if the discussion took any depth in analysis and comparing attributes and abilities but sadly that is not the case atm.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Speaking of player comparison I was thinking of something else. How do you think our Eden stands next to Spurs' monkey boy?

Bale is better atm. I don't think anyone can really contest that. One of the crucial things is the "atm" bit, as eden is only 22 and has a long career ahead of him, with this being his first season in the premier league. I know bale is only 23, but he has had a lot more experience in the premier league.

[Joker10 946]

To start off, I'd like to say that this debate Kagawa Vs Hazard is pretty childish. And this from both side.I don't see any problem to compare players, but this debate seems more to be a "who has the biggest" than anything else. ManU fans are like "they overpaid for Hazard, we have the better of the two" and Chelsea fans are like "they're just jealous, we obviously have the better".

I didn't see too many games of Kagawa this season. But I can tell you one thing : if you people had watched Dortmund when Shinji was playing there, you'd think twice before saying Eden is obviously better than Kagawa. For instance, I still did not have seen the belgian making an as big performance as Kagawa when the Borussia beat Munich 5-1 (and what a performance from the japanese, he ripped them a new one).

Kagawa looked amazing at Dortmund because of this guy. Klopp is a fucking amazing manager, this guy utilize his players better then anyone. Even before Pep announced he would be managing Bayern, i said from the beginning ideally i would pick Klopp over Pep any day of the week.

Kagawa hat trick against Norwich was pretty good, but that was his first good performance in how many games? That was one outstanding game in bunch of games.

The Kagawa at Dortmund was an example of a player that was perfectly used in a great system. Same goes for Sahin who looked like a future world beater at Dortmund, then flopped at Real Madrid and Liverpool.

[Stingray 9,441]

Actually what he said is that you wouldn't say Hazard is miles ahead if you saw how brilliant Kagawa was at Dortmund which is just an objective observation

There is nothing objective about this. It is an interpretation. Don't forget. Hazard was brilliant at Lille too, see the stats, awards, games. Also, he ripped Liverpool a nice new arse as well. So .... Interpretation, point of view and context. Objective would be such a hyperbole imo.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

There is nothing objective about this. It is an interpretation. Don't forget. Hazard was brilliant at Lille too, see the stats, awards, games. Also, he ripped Liverpool a nice new arse as well. So .... Interpretation, point of view and context. Objective would be such a hyperbole imo.

Your post actually proves that it is actually an objective observation except that you insist on seeing any kind of praise for Kagawa as criticism for Hazard which made you miss the point that me and Peace were trying to make:

Both players have showed they can be very good. We, or at least I, were not trying to say who is better than who (for me it's Hazard) or even that they are on the same level, just that no one is currently miles ahead of the other.

[Stingray 9,441]

Your post actually proves that it is actually an objective observation except that you insist on seeing any kind of praise for Kagawa as criticism for Hazard which made you miss the point that me and Peace were trying to make:

Both players have showed they can be very good. We, or at least I, were not trying to say who is better than who (for me it's Hazard) or even that they are on the same level, just that no one is currently miles ahead of the other.

Nah, i think Kagawa is a really good footballer, mate. Truly!

I was referring to:

"But I can tell you one thing : if you people had watched Dortmund when Shinji was playing there, you'd think twice before saying Eden is obviously better than Kagawa. For instance, I still did not have seen the belgian making an as big performance as Kagawa when the Borussia beat Munich 5-1"

Which to me is:

1. Comparative remark, which you find childish, hence the joke I made :-)

2. An interpretation, and I refer to the latter part of the comment.

So, to conclude:

I don't see the issue with my remark. Tagging it as objective makes it fact. This is not what it is if you look at their stats.

[Korea 734]

Kagawa looked amazing at Dortmund because of this guy. Klopp is a fucking amazing manager, this guy utilize his players better then anyone. Even before Pep announced he would be managing Bayern, i said from the beginning ideally i would pick Klopp over Pep any day of the week.

Kagawa hat trick against Norwich was pretty good, but that was his first good performance in how many games? That was one outstanding game in bunch of games.

The Kagawa at Dortmund was an example of a player that was perfectly used in a great system. Same goes for Sahin who looked like a future world beater at Dortmund, then flopped at Real Madrid and Liverpool.

wait , wait ,wait...

So does that mean Gotze is a product of Klopp?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Nah, i think Kagawa is a really good footballer, mate. Truly!

I was referring to:

"But I can tell you one thing : if you people had watched Dortmund when Shinji was playing there, you'd think twice before saying Eden is obviously better than Kagawa. For instance, I still did not have seen the belgian making an as big performance as Kagawa when the Borussia beat Munich 5-1"

Which to me is:

1. Comparative remark, which you find childish, hence the joke I made :-)

2. An interpretation, and I refer to the latter part of the comment.

So, to conclude:

I don't see the issue with my remark. Tagging it as objective makes it fact. This is not what it is if you look at their stats.

You're probably right about the second part of the statement but I still think it is fairly objective.

We appear to have different definitions of the word objective. It does not mean fact, to me. There are three types of opinions: Faith, subjective opinion, and objective opinion and neither is a fact. An objective opinion is one that has enough reason to get most people to accept it. I refer you to Kant's critique of pure reason.

[Peace. 4,352]

it just seems like a case of "my father can beat up your father".

Like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtwqvtllIGs

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Kagawa looked amazing at Dortmund because of this guy. Klopp is a fucking amazing manager, this guy utilize his players better then anyone. Even before Pep announced he would be managing Bayern, i said from the beginning ideally i would pick Klopp over Pep any day of the week.

Kagawa hat trick against Norwich was pretty good, but that was his first good performance in how many games? That was one outstanding game in bunch of games.

The Kagawa at Dortmund was an example of a player that was perfectly used in a great system. Same goes for Sahin who looked like a future world beater at Dortmund, then flopped at Real Madrid and Liverpool.

I think that's a little hard on Kagawa. The Van Persie signing was unexpected by ManU which changed their entire system. They bought Kagawa to be the #10 but because of Van Persie, Rooney was moved back into that position which means that Kagawa has been playing out of position most of the year and he hasn't been the focal point of running the offense. Short-term, he's just another good attacking option for ManU, but long-term, I see him as their #10 guy. He is a fantastic passer (90.4% passing for an attacking player is superb) and he's actually quite a good finisher. He reminds me a lot more of Mata than of Hazard in style and ability. (Which is why it made little sense for Chelsea to get him while it made sense to go after Hazard who is a very different player). Also 5 goals and 4 assists in 14 games in the league and in Europe is quite good.

[Stingray 9,441]

You're probably right about the second part of the statement but I still think it is fairly objective.

We appear to have different definitions of the word objective. It does not mean fact, to me. There are three types of opinions: Faith, subjective opinion, and objective opinion and neither is a fact. An objective opinion is one that has enough reason to get most people to accept it. I refer you to Kant's critique of pure reason.

Nice!! You know your Kant on intersubjectivity! Awesome, respect for that!!

True, i have more of a positivist approach on the matter. Hence the confusion.

Why ... Because of Hitler for example. So many people voted or him, did that make him say objective things? Numerous examples apply, but I forgive Kant. He lived in his own time frame and philosophy has moved on quite a bit :-)

Again: respect!

[The Skipper 20,593]

One thing. IMO if Hazard had Fergie as his manager and was part of the current United team, he'd be an absolute monster this season.

[zolayes 14,489]

Im a Mathematician and apply logic wherever possible . I just want that Kant Torres and his pimp out

[Jase 43,479]

One thing. IMO if Hazard had Fergie as his manager and was part of the current United team, he'd be an absolute monster this season.

Given that United players always seem to get injured, Hazard might ended up suffering injuries like Kagawa has been had he gone to United.

[Santiago. 1,500]

Needs to work on long range shooting with his stronger foot...

[Joker10 946]

wait , wait ,wait...

So does that mean Gotze is a product of Klopp?

Imo Gotze and Reus are special talents, they will look good on most teams. Lawa, Kuba, and Gundogan on the other hand are definitely product of Klopp system.

I think that's a little hard on Kagawa. The Van Persie signing was unexpected by ManU which changed their entire system. They bought Kagawa to be the #10 but because of Van Persie, Rooney was moved back into that position which means that Kagawa has been playing out of position most of the year and he hasn't been the focal point of running the offense. Short-term, he's just another good attacking option for ManU, but long-term, I see him as their #10 guy. He is a fantastic passer (90.4% passing for an attacking player is superb) and he's actually quite a good finisher. He reminds me a lot more of Mata than of Hazard in style and ability. (Which is why it made little sense for Chelsea to get him while it made sense to go after Hazard who is a very different player). Also 5 goals and 4 assists in 14 games in the league and in Europe is quite good.

I seriously doubt that Fergie has been playing Rooney deeper and deeper every season. Kagawa is a good finisher, but Fergie loves to play with more goal scoring option upfront. Who could blame him, United strikers have considerably made up for their shortcomings ex: Defense, midfield. I am not sure where Kagawa would have played if RVP wasn't signed, most likely out wide or who knows maybe at CM.

I have seen 6-7 of those matches, he looked horrible. His statistics does not tell the whole story. I am very bearish on Kagawa, i really don't think he will be anything more then a decent player of them.