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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

20 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

😂😂😂😂😂

I am just giving a fair point, 2 seasons where he has been our best player has been followed by 2 extremely poor seasons but everyone has an excuse for him. The way people talk about Eden, “he is one of the top 5 in the world” after like what scoring 2 goals vs Brighton... one top performance against Atletico Madrid in Europe is pretty piss poor to back an argument up about him doing it for us in Europe. I post on this forum in this thread because in other threads over the years I’ve sat and watched various other players half as talented who have played nowhere near as average/bad as Eden in these last few months and that year under Guus have been absolutely slated time and time again. It’s actually pathetic that there seems to be more Eden Hazard fans than Chelsea fans on this forum. As a fan I am not happy that a world class player has been strolling about for 4 months doing fuck all while our season falls apart, along with a lot of our other players but for somebody who is heralded as a Chelsea legend and world class, he is definitely doing his best to show otherwise in the big games. Terry, Drogba, Lampard... these guys may not have had the talent Eden does but when shit went south they dug us out. People don’t expect the same from Eden? A world class player? Why wouldn’t you not expect that? Or is there an excuse for that? Bad players maybe? He was excellent playing with Pedro, Willian and Costa last season and then the year we won the league under Jose. 

Two extremely poot seasons? Now I know you're deluded but I'll give you the attention you so desperately crave.

Just so you know Hazard was one of the top 2 best players in the league last season. He was in the top 2 in the PFA player of the year voting. He was voted our player of the year. This extremely poor season Hazard is supposed to be having he has 15 goals and 10 assists after coming back from a broken ankle and has been mostly fantastic this season excluding the last few games starting from the humiliating game at Man City. 

Your Europe argument is silly because the vast majority of what Hazard is good at is negated by negative tactics of coaches like Mourinho and Conte and Hazard doesn't have the teammates to compensate for it. He also struggles to see the ball or get the ball in meaningful in the vast majority of these matches. Hazard played well against PSG away from home in 13/14 and at home to PSG in 14/15 despite the extremely negative tactics. 

I could break it down further but what's the point? These aren't opinions, they are fact. Besides, I don't seem to remember any other CFC player doing anyting in these games. Costa, Oscar, Fabregas, Pedro. What have they done in Europe? Willian has 1 good game against Barcelona. That speaks a lot to the quality of our squad as a whole and especially to the tactics employed in the CL big games. They aren't designed for flair players to thrive. 

When he's gone and he's showing his quality elsewhere you're going to regret it. I promise you that. 

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53 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

. A more strict forum like Redcafe or RAWK would have had your arse banned a long time ago. 

That would be soo fucking pathetic if a forum banned somebody for criticising a player. The whole point of a forum is to discuss differen't veiws over various topics. If a forum banned somebody for not rating Eden Hazard then I would leave immediately.

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3 minutes ago, DDA said:

That would be soo fucking pathetic if a forum banned somebody for criticising a player. The whole point of a forum is to discuss differen't veiws over various topics. If a forum banned somebody for not rating Eden Hazard then I would leave immediately.

I agree with you completely. That will be stupid. But constantly trolling and disrespecting one of our all time great players is more than just criticizing Hazard's bad form.  It's being provocative for a reaction i.e trolling. Go to RAWK and constantly talk shit about Suarez or Redcafe and diss Ronaldo and see how long you last. 

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20 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

You can't just pick and choose games without context. You say he didn't play well against Barcelona but you fail to mention he barely touched the ball. He had like 25 touches and half of those were with aeriel duels with Pique! The game at Stamford Bridge was the one Eden was supposed to shine in but he was again hampered by the overly defensive tactics of his manager like he was under Mourinho. The game at Camp Nou is not really the type of game you can do much in. It's just too difficult there. Stamford Bridge was his moment and it was squandered again.

Also, I seem to remember him scoring the goal that won the decisive game (and therefore the title) against United 3 seasons ago. We have short memories. 

http://www.planetfootball.com/videos/watch-eden-hazards-brilliant-goals-premier-leagues-top-six/

https://streamable.com/98xky

Is that not what you are doing also? He scored some goals last season against the big teams but we also had some poor results too which the stat you posted doesn't consider.

That season we also lost at home to Liverpool, and away to Arsenal, Spurs and United, as well as the cup final to Arsenal. The United game sticks in my mind because he pretty much gave up early on when he was being marked closely.

Recent games such as United and both games against Barcelona he has been out shined by Willian. You mention the Nou Camp game, but we had far more of the ball and attacking intent in that game then we have throughout the years playing there. Willian had no problem driving at their defence, who is not as naturally talented as Hazard, but Hazard didn't do anything. The best players go looking and make things happen. Hazard for me just does not have that mentality to be ruthless and selfish enough. He will be loved by Chelsea fan's regardless (as I said in previous post quite rightly do too) and he gives the impression that he is happy to be within that comfort zone.

As I said previously, I like Hazard and appreciate the years he's given to Chelsea and the trophies he has helped win, but some are right he is painted on here like our greatest ever player and one of the very top players in the world, and for me he doesn't do enough to justify that. If he leaves we will miss him, I'm not deluded and my preference would be for him to stay. But the consensus on here is that we couldn't possibly replace him. In recent seasons we've carried on being successful despite having to replace Cech, Terry, Ashley Cole, Lampard and Drogba amongst others. Whether we change our formation/tactics to accommodate something different, directly buy a replacement or other players step up in his absence I think his output with regards to his goals and assists can be replaced.

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Just now, MrExcalibur100 said:

I agree with you completely. That will be stupid. But constantly trolling and disrespecting one of our all time great players is more than just criticizing Hazard's bad form. It's being provocative for a reaction i.e trolling. Go to RAWK and talk shit about Suarez or Redcafe and diss Ronaldo and see how long you last. 

But RAWK and REDCAFE are full of wankers... 

@OneMoSalah has done absolutely nothing untoward. He isn't trolling at all. Simply expressing what others also feel. Hazard is a great player but he isn't performing and hasn't fullfilled this 'top 5 player in the World' tag by a looooooong chalk.

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15 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Two extremely poot seasons? Now I know you're deluded but I'll give you the attention you so desperately crave.

Just so you know Hazard was one of the top 2 best players in the league last season. He was in the top 2 in the PFA player of the year voting. He was voted our player of the year. This extremely poor season Hazard is supposed to be having he has 15 goals and 10 assists after coming back from a broken ankle and has been mostly fantastic this season excluding the last few games starting from the humiliating game at Man City. 

Your Europe argument is silly because the vast majority of what Hazard is good at is negated by negative tactics of coaches like Mourinho and Conte and Hazard doesn't have the teammates to compensate for it. He also struggles to see the ball or get the ball in meaningful in the vast majority of these matches. Hazard played well against PSG away from home in 13/14 and at home to PSG in 14/15 despite the extremely negative tactics. 

I could break it down further but what's the point? These aren't opinions, they are fact. Besides, I don't seem to remember any other CFC player doing anyting in these games. Costa, Oscar, Fabregas, Pedro. What have they done in Europe? Willian has 1 good game against Barcelona. That speaks a lot to the quality of our squad as a whole and especially to the tactics employed in the CL big games. They aren't designed for flair players to thrive. 

When he's gone and he's showing his quality elsewhere you're going to regret it. I promise you that. 

Oh yeah sure tactics and coaches are at fault for Eden not showing up in some of these big games. Please. Maybe some games we set up negatively but it’s not like it’s impossible for him to do anything or like Conte has gone ok Eden just don’t do anything too positive I want us to draw.

What gets me is that in Cescs thread it’s “he’s done, he’s too slow” or Willian’s thread it’s “he’s overrated, sell him” but saying Eden hasn’t showed up for big games since the turn of the year and also hasn’t done anything of substance for us in Europe it’s like world war 3 with certain members is actually embarrasing. There’s always an excuse. Coaches. Tactics. Team mates (where they haven’t really changed that much since we won the league under Jose a few seasons ago bar the odd squad player, he seemed to do pretty well with last season and the year we won under Jose)... 

You can claim whatever you want about delusion but to sit there and give me bullshit like it’s all the coaches fault, his set up and whatnot as to why hes not shown up in every big game we’ve played since the turn of the year? Take a look in the mirror who’s fucking deluded now.

 

3 minutes ago, DDA said:

That would be soo fucking pathetic if a forum banned somebody for criticising a player. The whole point of a forum is to discuss differen't veiws over various topics. If a forum banned somebody for not rating Eden Hazard then I would leave immediately.

It seems I’ve offended a Hazard FC fan 😂 be called a troll next.

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2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Is that not what you are doing also? He scored some goals last season against the big teams but we also had some poor results too which the stat you posted doesn't consider.

That season we also lost at home to Liverpool, and away to Arsenal, Spurs and United, as well as the cup final to Arsenal. The United game sticks in my mind because he pretty much gave up early on when he was being marked closely.

Recent games such as United and both games against Barcelona he has been out shined by Willian. You mention the Nou Camp game, but we had far more of the ball and attacking intent in that game then we have throughout the years playing there. Willian had no problem driving at their defence, who is not as naturally talented as Hazard, but Hazard didn't do anything. The best players go looking and make things happen. Hazard for me just does not have that mentality to be ruthless and selfish enough. He will be loved by Chelsea fan's regardless (as I said in previous post quite rightly do too) and he gives the impression that he is happy to be within that comfort zone.

As I said previously, I like Hazard and appreciate the years he's given to Chelsea and the trophies he has helped win, but some are right he is painted on here like our greatest ever player and one of the very top players in the world, and for me he doesn't do enough to justify that. If he leaves we will miss him, I'm not deluded and my preference would be for him to stay. But the consensus on here is that we couldn't possibly replace him. In recent seasons we've carried on being successful despite having to replace Cech, Terry, Ashley Cole, Lampard and Drogba amongst others. Whether we change our formation/tactics to accommodate something different, directly buy a replacement or other players step up in his absence I think his output with regards to his goals and assists can be replaced.

So what if Willian played better in those 3 games you mentioned? Why not compare all the big games both players have played in their CFC careers instead of trying to juxtapose all of Hazard's career into last few games. In some of those game you mentioned he was played out of position. This is ridiculous. The last few games are not a microcosm of what Hazard has shown in the past and its definitely not a microcosm of Willian's performances in big games.  

The evidence of Hazard's entire career suggests he definitely steps up in the big games when at least the team plays to a minimally acceptable level. To casual fans I guess you're only as good as your last few games. 

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4 minutes ago, DDA said:

But RAWK and REDCAFE are full of wankers... 

@OneMoSalah has done absolutely nothing untoward. He isn't trolling at all. Simply expressing what others also feel. Hazard is a great player but he isn't performing and hasn't fullfilled this 'top 5 player in the World' tag by a looooooong chalk.

Saying Hazard has been extremely poor in the last 2 seasons isn't criticism. It's just trolling. But i'll live it to him to continue yapping his mouth here. His quest for attention won't last long because:

(1) Hazard won't continue to play poorly

(2) Hazard will probably leave at the end of the season.

Then @OneMoSalah will have nothing of value to contribute to this forum anymore. Once decent posters falling off the deep end to mediocrity. 

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1 minute ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Saying Hazard has been extremely poor in the last 2 seasons isn't criticism. It's just trolling. But i'll live it to him to continue yapping his mouth here. His quest for attention won't last long because:

(1) Hazard won't continue to play poorly

(2) Hazard will probably leave at the end of the season.

Then @OneMoSalah will have nothing of value to contribute to this forum anymore. Once decent posters falling off the deep end to mediocrity. 

Last two seasons? Fuck me. This season and then the one with Jose/Guus. I think your at the trolling now pal.

Quest for attention? Get off your high horse I’ve seen some of your other posts in various threads. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. I’ll leave it at that because I’ve made my point and if you don’t agree I couldn’t really give a fuck.

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Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Last two seasons? Fuck me. This season and then the one with Jose/Guus. I think your at the trolling now pal.

Quest for attention? Get off your high horse I’ve seen some of your other posts in various threads. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. I’ll leave it at that because I’ve made my point and if you don’t agree I couldn’t really give a fuck.

This season he has 15 goals and 10 assists, is our leading goalscorer (his 2nd highest goal tally at this stage of the season for us), our 3rd highest assists getter, our biggest chance creator, our highest rated player on all footballing metric sites and so on. And doing all that after recovering from a broken ankle without a preseason. Most reasonable CFC fans will say he's been pretty good this season. 

But I'm not surprised you think otherwise since most of your posts these days have descended to "HAHAHAA I told you so" codswallop on the Hazard thread. You've fallen off badly. 

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Just now, MrExcalibur100 said:

So what if Willian played better in those 3 games you mentioned? Why not compare all the big games both players have played in their CFC careers instead of trying to juxtapose all of Hazard's career into last few games. In some of those game you mentioned he was played out of position. This is ridiculous. The last few games are not a microcosm of what Hazard has shown in the past and its definitely not a microcosm of Willian's performances in big games.  

The evidence of Hazard's entire career suggests he definitely steps up in the big games when at least the team plays to a minimally acceptable level. To casual fans I guess you're only as good as your last few games. 

I'm not comparing, I'm merely making a point with regards to your weak excuse that the Nou Camp is 'too hard' for Hazard to perform in. 

I haven't once said that Hazard never performs in big games, but you said in an earlier post that bar Drogba he is the best big game player we've ever had. He is way too inconsistent. For every excellent game, he has a very poor game against big teams and this isn't just over the last few weeks, this is throughout his Chelsea career. But apparently supporting Chelsea since the very early 90's I'm a 'casual fan' so my opinion isn't acceptable.

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I don't think i have ever seen a set of fans have such a special player and try and downplay them this way, it's really bizzare.

Don't mind them. By the time he's gone these people will recognize how average we are and how much work needs to be done to rebuild this team. Hazard (and Kante) have helped paper over the cracks for 2 years now. 

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6 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'm not comparing, I'm merely making a point with regards to your weak excuse that the Nou Camp is 'too hard' for Hazard to perform in. 

I haven't once said that Hazard never performs in big games, but you said in an earlier post that bar Drogba he is the best big game player we've ever had. He is way too inconsistent. For every excellent game, he has a very poor game against big teams and this isn't just over the last few weeks, this is throughout his Chelsea career. But apparently supporting Chelsea since the very early 90's I'm a 'casual fan' so my opinion isn't acceptable.

Hazard is not inconsistent at all. He's been handsdown our most consistent attacking player since 2013. You can't do it. I challenge you to name an attacking player within that time period that has been more consistent. This is this vapid criticism that was only valid in 2012, Hazard's 1st season here. 

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I don't think i have ever seen a set of fans have such a special player and try and downplay them this way, it's really bizzare.

But really though? The most crucial part of our season in terms of the CL race, double leg ties with Barca, big games vs City, United, Spurs... he’s not shown up and looks disinterested. That’s what my point is. Along with various other players although they receive the criticism. Our season has nose dived since the turn of the year and Hazard’s form is a huge reason why. It happened that year Jose got sacked he went completely anonymous. If he goes in the summer he goes, having done well here but for me I just feel he still could of done more. 

 

2 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

This season he has 15 goals and 10 assists, is our leading goalscorer (his 2nd highest goal tally at this stage of the season for us), our 3rd highest assists getter, our biggest chance creator, our highest rated player on all footballing metric sites and so on. And doing all that after recovering from a broken ankle without a preseason. Most reasonable CFC fans will say he's been pretty good this season. 

But I'm not surprised you think otherwise since most of your posts these days have descended to "HAHAHAA I told you so" codswallop on the Hazard thread. You've fallen off badly. 

Let’s just say in the most crucial part of the season then he has done a vanishing act. How many of his goals and assists came before 2018? I bet a lot of them did.

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2 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Hazard is not inconsistent at all. He's been handsdown our most consistent attacking player since 2013. I challenge you to name an attacking player within that time period that has been more consistent. This is this vapid criticism that was only valid in 2012, Hazard's 1st season here. 

You're right, he has been our most consistent attacking player and I have actually put in my posts that he is our best player and most naturally gifted player by some distance. But being OUR most consistent attacking player does not mean that he doesn't suffer inconsistency, particularly when we will finish outside the top 4 twice in the last 3 seasons.

The main thing I said in my first post before you jumped down my throat is that there are a number of big games I come away from wanting more from him and I stand by that. I didn't say every big game, but there have been more than enough. It is being highlighted recently too because we've had a boatload of big games in recent weeks and he's failed to step up when we've desperately needed him to. I can understand that he's played as a false 9 against Barca at home and City but he's played in a more favourable position against Barca away, United and Spurs and been poor in all of them.

The problem is on this forum is that Hazard, for some, is immune to criticism. He's a brilliant player, I'm not saying he's rubbish but you rarely get a 6 or 7/10 performance with Hazard. He is either 8-9/10 or 4-5/10 and that includes his record in big games too.

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4 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

But really though? The most crucial part of our season in terms of the CL race, double leg ties with Barca, big games vs City, United, Spurs... he’s not shown up and looks disinterested. That’s what my point is. Along with various other players although they receive the criticism. Our season has nose dived since the turn of the year and Hazard’s form is a huge reason why. It happened that year Jose got sacked he went completely anonymous. If he goes in the summer he goes, having done well here but for me I just feel he still could of done more. 

 

Let’s just say in the most crucial part of the season then he has done a vanishing act. How many of his goals and assists came before 2018? I bet a lot of them did.

As you can see Hazard's form hasn't nose-dived since 2018 only since the City game when he was humiliated by Conte and made to look stupid:

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/33404/Fixtures/Eden-Hazard  (Of his 15 goals almost half of them have come in 2018.)

Hazard was poor at the Nou Camp but its hard to criticize him for the home game considering he spent more time trying to win headers vs Pique than with the ball to feet. I can't blame him for City as well for similar reasons. Hazard didn't even play so poor today, he was just too deep worrying about Son and when he got the ball in dangerous positions they did a good job of crowding him out. Alonso doesn't offer the right penetration or speed on the left side to distract teams with his runs into the box.

Anyway I'm done schooling you for now. I won't waste my time on you again as its clear you know little about Hazard or football in general.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

But really though? The most crucial part of our season in terms of the CL race, double leg ties with Barca, big games vs City, United, Spurs... he’s not shown up and looks disinterested. That’s what my point is. Along with various other players although they receive the criticism. Our season has nose dived since the turn of the year and Hazard’s form is a huge reason why. It happened that year Jose got sacked he went completely anonymous. If he goes in the summer he goes, having done well here but for me I just feel he still could of done more. 

 

Let’s just say in the most crucial part of the season then he has done a vanishing act. How many of his goals and assists came before 2018? I bet a lot of them did.

You can list big games all our previous/current players have been quiet in in the past, even Drogba. Eden still created more chances today than the rest of our team put together, even in the Jose meltdown period when he was supposedly anonymous he was in the top 10 for chances created. He very rarely actually has genuine shite games, even when he's quiet for his standards he is still being productive, as that stat about today shows.

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7 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

You're right, he has been our most consistent attacking player and I have actually put in my posts that he is our best player and most naturally gifted player by some distance. But being OUR most consistent attacking player does not mean that he doesn't suffer inconsistency, particularly when we will finish outside the top 4 twice in the last 3 seasons.

The main thing I said in my first post before you jumped down my throat is that there are a number of big games I come away from wanting more from him and I stand by that. I didn't say every big game, but there have been more than enough. It is being highlighted recently too because we've had a boatload of big games in recent weeks and he's failed to step up when we've desperately needed him to. I can understand that he's played as a false 9 against Barca at home and City but he's played in a more favourable position against Barca away, United and Spurs and been poor in all of them.

The problem is on this forum is that Hazard, for some, is immune to criticism. He's a brilliant player, I'm not saying he's rubbish but you rarely get a 6 or 7/10 performance with Hazard. He is either 8-9/10 or 4-5/10 and that includes his record in big games too.

So let's focus on one thing at a time. 

(first bolded part)

Do you really think the bolded parts have less to do with Hazard and more to do with the quality of team, investment in the team and the defensive tactics of his manager(s) in such games. It's obvious to me what the problem is.

(second bolded part)

Most of Hazard's best big game performances either come at home or against teams that play a similar brand of football to us. The reason is that in any one of these 2 scenarios Hazard generally sees more of the ball and can thus have a greater influence on the game (with notable exceptions being City and Barcelona because of just how dominant those teams are in possession). If you take that into consideration Hazard drops a minumum of 7.5-8.0/10 in most big games he plays

And if you were referring to all his games in general then you're totally wrong. Weaintgotnohistory.com do a player of the match poll after every game and if I could locate their yearly summation somewhere you can see there is a great stability in Hazard's performances. It's mostly 7.5's and above 85% of a 38 game season. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

You can list big games all our previous/current players have been quiet in in the past, even Drogba. Eden still created more chances today than the rest of our team put together, even in the Jose meltdown period when he was supposedly anonymous he was in the top 10 for chances created. He very rarely actually has genuine shite games, even when he's quiet for his standards he is still being productive, as that stat about today shows.

And even Lampard. Drogba took an entire season off because he didn't see eye to eye with Scolari but no one cares about that anymore. We can't continue to hold Hazard to absurd standards when he doesn't even have anything near to the proper platform to ever live up to them. There's way to much hyper criticism and hyper analysis. "Oh why didn't Hazard play well in game "x" and "y". Reading some of this stuff you'll think this guy was playing for Brazil 1970 or Guardiola's Barca. This is far from the case. We're not even on Liverpool or Spurs' level footballing philosophy or/and playing style wise 

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