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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

10 hours ago, DDA said:

80 goals in 274 games isn't really that good for a player of Edens quality mate. I love him as much as the next fan but this bias towards him is blinding people from the fact that he just doesn't score enough goals or assist to be on the top 3 players in the World, which is what many people claim.

Hazard doesn't need to score to have god like games, many many times he's been 10/10 without doing so. If a winger/AM's status in the game is decided on goals scored then it's simply wrong on every level. He didn't score in either game vs Atleti or vs United but was sensational in all 3, if he performs like that for half the season does it even matter if he only scores 10 or even 5? Not for me.

Hazard as he is is 100000000x more preferable to a Hazard who starts taking low percentage shots just to pad out his goal tally.

Stats, DYC., manpe and 1 other like this

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Hazard doesn't need to score to have god like games, many many times he's been 10/10 without doing so. If a winger/AM's status in the game is decided on goals scored then it's simply wrong on every level. He didn't score in either game vs Atleti or vs United but was sensational in all 3, if he performs like that for half the season does it even matter if he only scores 10 or even 5? Not for me.
Hazard as he is is 100000000x more preferable to a Hazard who starts taking low percentage shots just to pad out his goal tally.


He could always add to his game

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2 hours ago, Tomo said:

Hazard doesn't need to score to have god like games, many many times he's been 10/10 without doing so. If a winger/AM's status in the game is decided on goals scored then it's simply wrong on every level. He didn't score in either game vs Atleti or vs United but was sensational in all 3, if he performs like that for half the season does it even matter if he only scores 10 or even 5? Not for me.

Hazard as he is is 100000000x more preferable to a Hazard who starts taking low percentage shots just to pad out his goal tally.

I get what you are saying. He is sensational for us at times and goals and assists do not always speak for a players contribution but he needs to score more and assist more on top of what he is already doing to be considered top 3 in the World. 

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3 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

The way a team plays has an effect on the output of attacking players.

The more pragmatic (defensive) the lower the output. 

The more free flowing (attacking) the higher the output. 

We've been a very pragmatic side over the years. 

Then there's also the matter of the quality of your teammates. If you have a lot of creative teammates, goalscorers and/or a lot of dribblers in your team then you're going to find it easier to score and assist.

We don't have a lot of creativity, goalscorers or dribblers in our team. 

Comparing the output of players like Sterling or Neymar to Hazard is just silly. Both of them play or have played in teams who have been ultra attacking and who were or are packed with creativity, goalscorers and dribblers. Hazard hasn't.

 

This, offensively we are very conservative. We attack with only 5 players and left 5 player behind the ball even against weaker team. 

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1 hour ago, DDA said:

I get what you are saying. He is sensational for us at times and goals and assists do not always speak for a players contribution but he needs to score more and assist more on top of what he is already doing to be considered top 3 in the World. 

If you want him to be considered top 3 then we should splash on player this summer.

It is as simple as that. Get better players, improve our team win trophies and he will win balondor and considered top players in the world.

But looking at last summer it is not happening, our net spent was almost nothing.

So realistically speaking if you want him to be considered as top 3 then sell him to other team.

 

 

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15 hours ago, DDA said:

But Sterling and Salah aren't being mentioned when talking about the top 3 best footballers in the World. Quite a few people who support Chelsea mostly believe Eden Hazard is the 3rd best player in the World only to fall short of Ronaldo and Messi's acheievments. I am simply stating a fact that he does not score or assist any where near enough to be applauded above certain other players. His contribution to Chelsea has been outstanding but he isn't better than Neymar for instance. This isn't to say I don't think he could be that guy because his talent is clear to see but he really needs to step up his drive to become the best. Sadly, I don't think it is something he is too bothered about though. 

Why aren't Sterling or Salah being discussed as one of top 3 (or top anything tbh) when they score/assist more? Why is Hazard being discussed as one for years if he doesn't score/assist enough? Not only Chelsea fans do that, but also ex-players, pundits and journalists who have nothing to do with Chelsea. Bearing in mind how difficult it is to get ANY recognition being Chelsea, why does he attract so much praise and attention from outside?

You also didn't answer my question - would you take Salah or Sterling over Hazard in our team? Elaborate your answer. 

If you take away half of Messi's goals and assists, would he be half as useful player?

Please also explain how Neymar is better than Hazard.

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4 hours ago, manpe said:

Why aren't Sterling or Salah being discussed as one of top 3 (or top anything tbh) when they score/assist more? Why is Hazard being discussed as one for years if he doesn't score/assist enough? Not only Chelsea fans do that, but also ex-players, pundits and journalists who have nothing to do with Chelsea. Bearing in mind how difficult it is to get ANY recognition being Chelsea, why does he attract so much praise and attention from outside?

You also didn't answer my question - would you take Salah or Sterling over Hazard in our team? Elaborate your answer. 

If you take away half of Messi's goals and assists, would he be half as useful player?

Please also explain how Neymar is better than Hazard.

Listen, again Salah and Sterling have nothing to do with this debate! Why would I even consider mentioning those two names in the same breath as Eden? Because they have scored more goals this season? That is like me saying anyone who has scored more goals than Eden this season is better than him! No, just no. We all know Eden is one of the best players if not the best player in his position in England. I am with everyone here when we wax lyrical about how Eden has carried us single handendly at times. I get extremely frustrated that he has to play alongside a crop of limited professionals. Neymar is without a doubt considered a more effective footballer than Eden at this current point in time. Yes, he has played in extremely attacking teams that cater specifically to his abillities. Yes, if Eden was to play in that Barca team or the current PSG team he would undoubtably be scoring far more goals and assisting far more too but he isn't.. There is a reason why PSG have paid soo much money for him and he is talked about leaving Barca to acheieve the Balon Dor. I know you can't meassure a players ability simply on goals and assists but comon, you seriously believe if Eden started scoring a bag load of goals and assists whilst winning the biggest trophies, he wouldn't start being considered for the highest of awards such as the Balon Dor? 

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3 hours ago, Tomo said:

I disagree, i can't think of many other players who could have carried us the way Eden has. Apart from Messi, who can change direction at full speed and still have the ball firmly planted at their feet like Eden can? Who ( again apart from Messi) can change speed while running with the ball like Eden can? All these players who supposedly are much better (Neymar, Suarez, Bale, even Ronaldo) waste possession so much more than Hazard does. Literally everything has been set up for him to fail with us,

He gets clattered numerous times every single game.

Doubled and sometimes tripled up on, 1 on 1? Forget it, not even the likes of Azpi and Alderwierld could live with him 1 vs 1.

Playing with limited team mates, the only players during his time here clever enough to link up with him are Mata, Cesc, Eto'o and Morata and the first three were/are limited by either lack of athleticsm or ageing.

Playing under coaches like Benitez and Mourinho who are hardly reknowned for developing attacking talent, Conte isn't as bad as those two, but equally he isn't Pep or Klopp in the attacking football stakes either.

He has been successful swimming against a tide for his whole time here and those other players have been playing in a lot more favourable conditions that pander to their talents, Hazard has hit the heights he has playing in a team with a lot of limitations. Also in the 15/16 season he was undeniably in the worst form of his career AND had a hip injury (for perspective Eric Lamela has just returned from a year absence due to a hip injury) yet still averaged 2.4 chances created a game, that is ridiculous, and he doesn't even take set pieces, i can't think of many other players who would touch such a positive stat while injured, off form and the club in the worst moment for over 2 decades, Messi probably would, anyone else? Forget it.

If he could add more goals then ofcourse, nobody will be complaining but if he does i want it to be natural evolution, not forced (ala him taking 10 low percentage shots just to score 1) and it shouldn't be used as a deal breaker for him to be a top 3 player, he comfortably is for me and not only that, the best player we have ever had.

I still think it is close between Zola and Hazard for who is the best player to have ever played here.

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5 minutes ago, manpe said:

Ah, I think I finally see your point. You are saying that the global audience would rate him more if he was more prolific, hence the 3rd best player thing being sung only by those who watch English football. Neymar is ahead in popularity contest (Eden isn't even trying to compete tbf) and it's being unjustly translated into him being the better player, but no way anybody can convince me he is better than Hazard, for me he's an overrated possession wasting donkey. I wouldn't take anybody over Hazard in his position, not even Messi or Ronaldo. Love that guy.

That is exactly what I am saying! I haven't articulated my point well enough lol. I have to say though, I do rate Neymar. You can't deny the lads ability and he does perform on the big stage. Would i rather him than Eden at our club? Hell no. He wouldn't last 2 minutes playing in the Prem. I love Edens character also. Neymar is a little girl.

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Just now, DDA said:

That is exactly what I am saying! I haven't articulated my point well enough lol. I have to say though, I do rate Neymar. You can't deny the lads ability and he does perform on the big stage. Would i rather him than Eden at our club? Hell no. He wouldn't last 2 minutes playing on the Prem. I love Edens character also. Neymar is a little girl.

Neymar is obviously a good player, I don't deny that. But he's overrated so much and I don't like his face. :P Hazard is a warrior, he is strong and doesn't mind people kicking the shit out of him. Neymar would eat grass for 80 mins per game than actually do anything, diving champ that he is.

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Players from history who played a similar position/role for their teams, to the same consistently high standard, with the same 1 goal every 3 games output: Ribery, Ronaldinho
Include players who tick those boxes, but have scored more than 1 goal every 3 games: Messi

So using this layman logic he's somewhere around or between those 3. 

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On talk chelsea he is indeed top 3, elsewhere he’s top 5-10... lists come up from pundits and players all the time some include Eden, while others do not.

For me the causality cannot possibly be established as easily as some around here claim: too many variables and all the supposition around what he would be able to do in a more attacking side is just that, supposition and wishful thinking from his most ardent fans.

But for the sake of argument, let’s assume we know that he would indeed become top 3 player (Messi shouldn’t be in the mix imo). Then the question I have is why does Eden play for a club that does not make him a better player? A defensive side team instead of attacking minded? Why is he satisfied having to play with these “donkeys” (personally find the idea that he carries a bunch of donkeys nonsense)?

PSG paid Neymar’s release clause and took him increasing his wages... the transfer market is pretty competitive and the best players draw the best wages. So, why is hazard stuck at chelsea? Does he lack ambition? If so, Wouldn’t that also affect his game at chelsea? Does he love chelsea so much? (hope folks aren’t that naive lol)

Finally, he needs to show up at the international stage. It’s usually KDB pulling the strings and Eden pretty subdued in WC/important games.

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2 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Hazard improving in a more attacking side is just logical. Sure it's a hypothetical because he hasn't left us for one (yet) but it's based on logic. A more attacking side + more quality will no doubt help attacking players.

Especially if they've been playing for one of the most pragmatic top teams in the world before and still managed to perform at a high level.

 

.Because Hazard doesn't have a release clause. Hazard is our best player. Aslong as Hazard isn't pushing for a move himself i don't think we could be persuaded to sell for any kind of money. 

 

Now why hasn't he pushed for a move himself ? Well there are a number of reasons.

His personality is one. He's a laid back, family man type of guy. He's not a money grabbing a'hole. He's not a diva looking to be in the spotlights all the time.

There's also the fact that even if he'd push for the move it would still take a considerable amount of money to make it happen. Most teams don't have the money to buy Hazard.

He's also not interested in leaving to any other club but Real or Barcelona.(mostly Real though) PSG have been wanting Hazard for years but Hazard himself doesn't want to go back to the french league. 

The german and Italian leagues don't interest him at all. 

So the amount of clubs that can afford him and that Hazard would want to go to are just 2.

People can complain about wanting Hazard to be more ambitious but if Hazard were more ambitious i don't think he would have stayed with us for as long as he has.

About it affecting his game. Look people have different personalities. Not every football player in the world has to be as driven as Ronaldo to succeed. 

Hazard is who he is. His primary goal is to enjoy his football (his life). Considering he's making millions and is widely viewed as one of the top players in the world i'd say it's working for him.

 

Have you actually been watching us ? During and since the European Cup KDB has been the one who's been subdued while Hazard has been the one that performs.

KDB is actually going through a considerable goal drought for our NT. The last time he scored dates back to the 26th of march 2016 against Switserland before the EC.

20 games without a goal.  Hazard on the other hand has 8 goals and 9 assists in 16 games since the EC (including the EC)

 

Well I happen to think that Hazard improving in a more attacking side is just wrong and illogical ;) 

why? Because the personal stats, the ones that count when comparing players at the top don’t necessarily increase and often actually decrease...

While the collective attacking output of an attacking side may be higher, the individual stats are divided amongst all attacking players! 

There are only so many assists to be made or only so many goals to be scored. Will a team double the number of goals by sticking a second striker up front? Won’t a single striker score more goals individually if being the focus of the team?

anyway, the (attacking) point is at the very least, debatable.

Yeah you gave me a: he’s a nice guy and loves Chelsea and his life and won’t force a move. Which for me is precisely the reason he will never really compete with the other top players. And I have to confess I don’t particularly buy it: when a top side really wants a player they ultimately get him. 

yes he could force a move like Coutinho is doing right now even when He plays well. It sucks but players do that all the time.

fair enough on the NT but I will refrain my judgement after Russia. 

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