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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Why must that be the case? Why must it be Hazard just because he's the most talented one around? Are you saying he's the only one who should have bigger ambition?

Because he’s the only talent that has Ballon d’Or level talent, and if he was serious about winning it or even challenging then it probably ain’t happening at CFC. That’s my entire point. The best want to be with the best no? 

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41 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Because he’s the only talent that has Ballon d’Or level talent, and if he was serious about winning it or even challenging then it probably ain’t happening at CFC. That’s my entire point. The best want to be with the best no? 

Apparently not Neymar.

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7 hours ago, The Skipper said:

It’s a different case with Eden who is by far the most talented at the club. Only player at the club that has Ballon D’Or level talent. 

I obviously don’t want the club to fail Jason. Just that if I were in Eden’s shoes and had his ambition - I would think twice about signing, or as I’ve mentioned before in this very thread I would demand that the club improve the squad properly to match that ambition. The club’s going downhill. Recognising and acknowledging that does not mean I want to see CFC fail. 

I don’t get the first bit. He has one dreadful game, you’ve said nothing about his performance... hinting he should look to leave? Or as you put it “he would be a fool to sign a new contract”, what!?!? What a load of shite. The team is built around him, has been for years, he has a shocker and your talking about him having bigger ambitions? A lot of people mention Eden and Ballon d’Or but I’m sure we would rather see the club win titles than him win an individual award, he’s probably the same.

Also he’s at the stage where if he is going to ever win the Ballon d’Or ahead of a Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar he’s going to have score 30+ a season and I honestly cannot see him doing that because he isn’t selfish enough as a player so to speak.  Ronaldo and Messi won’t go on forever but they will still be huge players in 2 or 3 years when Edens heading towards his late 20s. They are untouchables for me. 

 

17 hours ago, Leif said:

He wasn't good, and that's being said after the game. Good. But the idea along the lines of, 'How come Hazard always escapes fire when we play shit!?!?!?' is stupid. If a player is generally your best player for 7 or 8 out of 10 games, you don't give him the same smacking as the players who go missing 8 out of 10 games, do you? Why would you do that? It isn't 'fair'.

Every player should be held to the same standards of criticism or praise regardless of if there Eden Hazard or not: if people are willing to criticize Willian, Pedro, Batshuayi, Cahill, Moses then it’s only right that they understand when people criticize Hazard, Azpilicueta, David Luiz etc in the same manner if it’s appropriate. Or praise them when they do well.

Not aimed towards you Leif, just a general post but there are a lot of double standards when it comes to some players at the club. Eden has avoided a lot of criticism because he’s played well or been the sort of go to guy when the teams looked poor but his performance against Palace was as bad as anything I’ve ever seen from Willian or Pedro in the last few years, purely for a lack of effort more than anything else. For somebody who’s reportedly going to be getting offered a deal worth 300k a week, more than anybody in else in the PL, you don’t expect to see a lack of effort, let alone a lack of effort and extremely poor performance combined.

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4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

 

I don’t get the first bit. He has one dreadful game, you’ve said nothing about his performance... hinting he should look to leave? Or as you put it “he would be a fool to sign a new contract”, what!?!? What a load of shite. The team is built around him, has been for years, he has a shocker and your talking about him having bigger ambitions? A lot of people mention Eden and Ballon d’Or but I’m sure we would rather see the club win titles than him win an individual award, he’s probably the same.

Also he’s at the stage where if he is going to ever win the Ballon d’Or ahead of a Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar he’s going to have score 30+ a season and I honestly cannot see him doing that because he isn’t selfish enough as a player so to speak.  Ronaldo and Messi won’t go on forever but they will still be huge players in 2 or 3 years when Edens heading towards his late 20s. They are untouchables for me. 

 

Every player should be held to the same standards of criticism or praise regardless of if there Eden Hazard or not: if people are willing to criticize Willian, Pedro, Batshuayi, Cahill, Moses then it’s only right that they understand when people criticize Hazard, Azpilicueta, David Luiz etc in the same manner if it’s appropriate. Or praise them when they do well.

Not aimed towards you Leif, just a general post but there are a lot of double standards when it comes to some players at the club. Eden has avoided a lot of criticism because he’s played well or been the sort of go to guy when the teams looked poor but his performance against Palace was as bad as anything I’ve ever seen from Willian or Pedro in the last few years, purely for a lack of effort more than anything else. For somebody who’s reportedly going to be getting offered a deal worth 300k a week, more than anybody in else in the PL, you don’t expect to see a lack of effort, let alone a lack of effort and extremely poor performance combined.

Skipper's comment was about more then just the Crystal Palace game. There's a lack of ambition from the club to really add quality and improve the squad.

The last couple of years we've been content with just replacing the players we lost and not really pushing for more and better players.

There are simply too many average players in the squad who need to perform at, or close to, a 100% of their capacity to not look out of place in this team.

There's an over reliance on our key players. Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, all three can play like shit and 9 out of 10 times their team will still dominate whoever they play.

When Hazard plays poor the drop in our attack is worrying. 

 

I don't really get a "built around him" vibe more like a "let's see how far he can take us" vibe

 

Yes and no. When it comes to rating a single performance then yes ofcourse there should be just 1 standard and there is. It's been acknowledged that Hazard Azpi and Luiz had poor games just as most of the team did.

However past performances do matter. If a player plays like shit for 4 out of 4 games and the fifth game he plays like shit again people will be a lot less forgiving then a player that plays well for 4 out of 4 games and then the fifth has a shit one.

People evaluate players based on a number of games and not just one. 

 

I didn't see a lack of effort from him. Things just didn't come off for him. He was simply poor. It happens.

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12 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

 

19 hours ago, The Skipper said:

It’s a different case with Eden who is by far the most talented at the club. Only player at the club that has Ballon D’Or level talent. 

I obviously don’t want the club to fail Jason. Just that if I were in Eden’s shoes and had his ambition - I would think twice about signing, or as I’ve mentioned before in this very thread I would demand that the club improve the squad properly to match that ambition. The club’s going downhill. Recognising and acknowledging that does not mean I want to see CFC fail. 

I don’t get the first bit. He has one dreadful game, you’ve said nothing about his performance... hinting he should look to leave? Or as you put it “he would be a fool to sign a new contract”, what!?!? What a load of shite. The team is built around him, has been for years, he has a shocker and your talking about him having bigger ambitions? A lot of people mention Eden and Ballon d’Or but I’m sure we would rather see the club win titles than him win an individual award, he’s probably the same.

I have been thinking about this since the end of the transfer window, the Palace game has nothing to do with the comment.

Either way, Hazard was shocking, but is he a problem in the overall system? No. Does he consistently hold the team back? No. When Hazard has ONE bad game I’m not going to criticise him for it, especially if you take factors like the fact that he’s had no pre season, and that he usually is a slow starter anyway. That should explain why people aren’t sticking it on him more for you.

You're also getting it twisted completely. I don’t want to see Eden win individual awards or anything ahead of CFC winning trophies at all. I haven’t said this anywhere, this is literally just an assumption you’ve made. I’m saying this from Eden’s perspective, why’s that so difficult to understand? 

I think the club’s ambition’s gone down, and I think that that’ll result in some top players like Eden leaving unless we get that ambition back. We’re nowhere near as attractive as we used to be, we’re not challenging for the title, and we’re not spending big anymore. That doesn’t mean I actually want him to leave. This is a general view that has nothing to do with how our games play out per se. Of course I want Eden to stay, just if you’re looking at it from his perspective - he’d be a fool if he’s looking after his own best interests to sign a new contract if the club’s ambition keeps going down, when he’d start in any team in the world - not even just for himself to get any Ballon d’Or’s but also important trophies in general. Putting words in my mouth son.

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I think that long injury has slowed Hazards game down. Hes not dribbling as well as he used to. If hes going to have another 2015/2016 season because of injury, we're screwed. 

We depend on him so much.

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3 hours ago, The Skipper said:

I have been thinking about this since the end of the transfer window, the Palace game has nothing to do with the comment.

Either way, Hazard was shocking, but is he a problem in the overall system? No. Does he consistently hold the team back? No. When Hazard has ONE bad game I’m not going to criticise him for it, especially if you take factors like the fact that he’s had no pre season, and that he usually is a slow starter anyway. That should explain why people aren’t sticking it on him more for you.

You're also getting it twisted completely. I don’t want to see Eden win individual awards or anything ahead of CFC winning trophies at all. I haven’t said this anywhere, this is literally just an assumption you’ve made. I’m saying this from Eden’s perspective, why’s that so difficult to understand? 

I think the club’s ambition’s gone down, and I think that that’ll result in some top players like Eden leaving unless we get that ambition back. We’re nowhere near as attractive as we used to be, we’re not challenging for the title, and we’re not spending big anymore. That doesn’t mean I actually want him to leave. This is a general view that has nothing to do with how our games play out per se. Of course I want Eden to stay, just if you’re looking at it from his perspective - he’d be a fool if he’s looking after his own best interests to sign a new contract if the club’s ambition keeps going down, when he’d start in any team in the world - not even just for himself to get any Ballon d’Or’s but also important trophies in general. Putting words in my mouth son.

I know what you meant regarding the Ballon d’Or and maybe furfulling more but the point is still he can improve here yet and be as influential as he has been in title successes like we’ve seen in the past few years. For me he shouldn’t be looking and going well I can’t push myself more here so I have to go to Ronaldo’s Real or Messi’s Barcelona and be just a cog (a very good cog) in comparison to the “main cog” he is at Chelsea. Some of the players around him can do better too yes but I think looking at that game (1 game but was shockingly unusual from him) it’s fair to say the effort and performances of Palaces guys in comparison to us that if we could of had De Bruyne, David Silva, Paul Pogba, Leroy Sane... anybody else you want bar the two big hitters and we’d probably still have lost just because of the application more than anything else.

The team needs improvement, I still think we could of gotten a Sanchez, Douglas Costa (well maybe not doing poorly for Juventus) or Bernardo Silva in the summer but we didn’t, so who do you go for? The team isn’t that bad, the squad is light in depth but we knew that, there arent a great deal of players at that level that are easily obtainable. Guys like Ross Barkley would of been a mistake as would Riyhad Mahrez. Ultimately I reckon the summer window will come back to bite us in the arse come the end of the season. Still think the clubs ambitious, just not able to compete with the lure of a Mourinho or Pep or willing to run the risks of FFP like United, City, Real, Barca, PSG whoever else. 

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About the Palace game, and being one who does criticize him when he does not play to his potential, I just think he's not match fit yet... that simple.

While he may be physically fit, it takes a bit longer to get the rest of your game back after an injury (that included surgery).

The Skipper and AChes1ofus like this

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1 hour ago, Robguima said:

About the Palace game, and being one who does criticize him when he does not play to his potential, I just think he's not match fit yet... that simple.

While he may be physically fit, it takes a bit longer to get the rest of your game back after an injury (that included surgery).

At last someone who has got it right. thanks bud.

hes1ofus

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22 hours ago, The Skipper said:

PSG are better than us. 

 

I ment he left Barcelona for PSG, Therefore leaving the best.

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6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Still think the clubs ambitious, just not able to compete with the lure of a Mourinho or Pep or willing to run the risks of FFP like United, City, Real, Barca, PSG whoever else. 

Thats the main crux/problem for me. The way we’re conducting ourselves in the transfer window isn’t that inspiring. Sure, the team is good, we have some top players, but it seems like the club is happy with what we’ve got. We’ll get left behind by all those clubs you’ve just mentioned. It’s not like we’re making smart Azpi-like signings either. The overall quality of the squad should’ve been much higher this season. 

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3 minutes ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Looked ashamed to score. Is he unhappy?

He's about to be 27, one of the most naturally gifted players of his generation (if not the most), playing functional counter-attack in the biggest stage whilst barely even touching the ball. If I was him I will be unhappy 

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