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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

Managers have input into who stays and goes, along with the board. But Contes input is just one of many, and as with Mourinho, it's basically up to the board. They would make an economic decision, but plumb new depths if they let him go imo

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40 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Managers have input into who stays and goes, along with the board. But Contes input is just one of many, and as with Mourinho, it's basically up to the board. They would make an economic decision, but plumb new depths if they let him go imo

From what we've heard so far, it seems the board aren't interested in selling Hazard either. The fact that they are willing bump his wages up to 300k (assuming true) despite that we may receive a bid worth 100m+ says a lot. Guess it'll come down to whether Hazard actually wants to go.

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7 hours ago, Jason said:

From what we've heard so far, it seems the board aren't interested in selling Hazard either. The fact that they are willing bump his wages up to 300k (assuming true) despite that we may receive a bid worth 100m+ says a lot. Guess it'll come down to whether Hazard actually wants to go.

Well the board will do what they want and keep it secret anyway, but if he downs tools again, then he can fuck off. We should be like Everton and just say no to teams now and then.

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11 hours ago, Gilvorak said:

There's no way Conte will let him leave. He's probably the only reason he joined in the first place.

Apparently Conte's only condition before coming was that Hazard stayed no matter what.

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5 hours ago, Gilvorak said:

Why do people keep claiming he downed tools last season when he was clearly injured? Does Hazard seem like that type of person to you?

 

He's about to win us another title, people need to get over 15/16 already.

Its not just him theres other  players contributing as well. Don't worry we are  over 2015-16 - it was obvious a lot of players were underperforming last season for various reasons. Its why theres no European football this season.

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In the last 5 seasons

Messi (2012/2013) -  33 key passes 12 assists
Hazard (2012/2013) - 54 key passes 11 assists 
Messi (2013/2014) -  75 key passes 18 assists

Hazard (2013/2014) - 85 key passes 7 assists
Messi (2014/2015) - 55 key passes 7 assists 
Hazard (2014/2015) - 90 key passes (!) 9 assists
Messi (2015/2016) - 57 key passes 16 assists
Hazard (2015/2016) - 63 key passes 3 assists (his worst season ever)
Messi (2016/2017) -  55 key passes 7 assists (and counting)
Hazard (2016/2017) -  54 key passes 5 assists (and counting)

In total in the last 5 seasons:
Messi has 275 key passes and 60 assists
Hazard has 346 key passes and 35 assists 

This is despite Messi playing with much better players who score from the chances he creates, turning his key passes to assists and also being one the set-piece takers for his team, which Hazard isn't. So Hazard is creating all this chances without set pieces!

Hazard is more creative than Messi and is truly one of the most devastating creative players in world football despite not being a pure playmaker. If he played for Barcelona in this time period, god knows how many assists he'll have had!

Next, I'll show how Hazard right now is a better dribbler than Messi ever was in his prime. A lot of myths in football.  

 

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Hazard is both a better creative player and better dribbler than Messi was in his prime. Some stats lie but creativity and dribbling stats don't 

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10 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Hazard is both a better creative player and better dribbler than Messi was in his prime. Some stats lie but creativity and dribbling stats don't 

The reason hazard is not on the same level has Ronaldo and Messi is because  he doesn't score enough 

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3 minutes ago, the wes said:

The reason hazard is not on the same level has Ronaldo and Messi is because  he doesn't score enough 

His shooting technique is nowhere near as developed as them. He can't generate the same amount of power from his shots or have the same accuracy to them. He also has the same problem in set-pieces. He can't generate power on them.  It's all about shooting technique, not just simply he doesn't score enough. If Eden had that shooting technique gift, he will be on par with prime Messi and Ronaldo. Besides, Hazard is currently a better player than Ronaldo, but I don't want to veer off to Ronaldo/Messi/Hazard. That wasn't the point of my post. It was to show how Hazard is both a better creator and dribbler than Messi was in his prime. Which I thought was rather fascinating since those two are so similar stylistically

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28 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

No. Ronaldinho, Kaka, Zidane didnt score as much as those two. If person truly believe that best player in the world is the one who scores shitload of goals, he is nothing but a washed media sheep.

The reason Hazard is not yet on level of Ronaldo and Messi is because he didnt show enough on big stage. Premier League, he is widely regarded as one if not the best player of past few years, but in CL honestly he did very very little. There were games against PSG he played completely average and that is one thing he needs to improve. To be consistent and decisive on big stage, not to score shitload of goals. He is not and never will be a 30+ goalscorer, because that is not in his nature.

Look at Suarez. Or Cavani if you want. He is brilliant striker, scores alot, but I would not put him next to Ronaldo and Messi. Because he is just not that great footballer. Goals are one thing, but its not what separates top from best. Iniesta is one of very best (in his prime I would put him ahead of Ronaldo tbh) and he scores what 1 goal per season.

That is if you truly watch football for the sake of its beauty, not because media blows the popularity contest of Ronaldo, Messi and how their statistics make them the best ever yada yada, with absolutely zero attention on defensive midfielders, defenders and generaly all those who dont score much.

Football is a team sport and the one who plays for the team will  have unremarkable stats, but absolutely crucial for every trophy the team wins.

Extremely harsh. I thought he was our best attacking player against PSG at home 2014/2015 and scored in that match. He also managed to score against them the season before that in 2013/14 and hit the post. Against Atletico he was just coming back from an injury. This is despite his team mates being truly awful and Mourinho playing the most defensive football known to man which basically gave Hazard no chance. If you truly think about it, which one of our attacking players did anything worth remembering? The reason is Mourinho and in reality none of our forwards had any chance of doing anything. I remember 2014/15 away to PSG were Hazard played as a left back for 90 mins. It truly hurt me to see that. I don't think Hazard ever forgave him for it. There's a difference between  playing on the counter vs being a coward. Even against weaker teams, Mourinho played cowardly in the CL.

Eden is yet to have a proper run in the Champions league with us. First season, we didn't have CL football. Second season, he actually had many good performances Galatasaray, Schalke for instance , but got injured against PSG at home in the quarters and was barely fit against Atletico. Third season should have been it but our performances had already detoirated by February.

He will get a proper run in that competition under Conte.  

 

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I'll post the dribbling stats tomorrow that shows Hazard is a better dribbler now than Messi was in his prime years. And this is a guy many casuals believe to be the best dribbler in history.  

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1 hour ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

Extremely harsh. I thought he was our best attacking player against PSG at home 2014/2015 and scored in that match. He also managed to score against them the season before that in 2013/14 and hit the post. Against Atletico he was just coming back from an injury. This is despite his team mates being truly awful and Mourinho playing the most defensive football known to man which basically gave Hazard no chance. If you truly think about it, which one of our attacking players did anything worth remembering? The reason is Mourinho and in reality none of our forwards had any chance of doing anything. I remember 2014/15 away to PSG were Hazard played as a left back for 90 mins. It truly hurt me to see that. I don't think Hazard ever forgave him for it. There's a difference between  playing on the counter vs being a coward. Even against weaker teams, Mourinho played cowardly in the CL.

Eden is yet to have a proper run in the Champions league with us. First season, we didn't have CL football. Second season, he actually had many good performances Galatasaray, Schalke for instance , but got injured against PSG at home in the quarters and was barely fit against Atletico. Third season should have been it but our performances had already detoirated by February.

He will get a proper run in that competition under Conte.  

 

Ok, yes he was actualy quite good, but not being the decisive guy good if you know what I mean. Sure its extremely hard to win games on your own, but sometimes he is simply unplayable in PL, while despite being ok in CL, he didnt realy reach that same height so far. I remember against PSG he did ok, but compared to some of his best games for Chelsea, he wasnt even close, meanwhile if you look Messi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, Neymar,... their best performances came from some of the most important games (that said Ronaldo was oftenly shit in big games IMO).

Its harsh yes, Im one of biggest Eden fans, but IMO for him to be truly one of best, he will need to put his very best performances against the very best teams in europe in games that are crucial.

Its true our team as whole was not even close comparable to top teams indeed, so Eden deserves a pass, but with Conte, I expect he will build a proper team and Eden must become our true leader. Someone who if fit, you can count in 9/10 games, not just ''hope he will be on fire tonight'' kinda guy He set the bar so high and with all his talent, he must become that guy you can depend everytime. Im sure once he hits 27/28, his experience will make him even better.

His talent is undisputed, but sometimes some players have more big game mentality and some have less. For example Ivanovic was while good defender, nothing special in wide term of best players in world, but a truly big game man. If Eden becomes that big game player, for all I care he can score 5 goals per season, he will be one of worlds best next to Messi and Ronaldo.

IMO Edens mentality is not quite there yet, but he still has few years to truly peak, so he has time.

 

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57 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Ok, yes he was actualy quite good, but not being the decisive guy good if you know what I mean. Sure its extremely hard to win games on your own, but sometimes he is simply unplayable in PL, while despite being ok in CL, he didnt realy reach that same height so far. I remember against PSG he did ok, but compared to some of his best games for Chelsea, he wasnt even close, meanwhile if you look Messi, Iniesta, Ronaldo, Neymar,... their best performances came from some of the most important games (that said Ronaldo was oftenly shit in big games IMO).

Its harsh yes, Im one of biggest Eden fans, but IMO for him to be truly one of best, he will need to put his very best performances against the very best teams in europe in games that are crucial.

Its true our team as whole was not even close comparable to top teams indeed, so Eden deserves a pass, but with Conte, I expect he will build a proper team and Eden must become our true leader. Someone who if fit, you can count in 9/10 games, not just ''hope he will be on fire tonight'' kinda guy He set the bar so high and with all his talent, he must become that guy you can depend everytime. Im sure once he hits 27/28, his experience will make him even better.

His talent is undisputed, but sometimes some players have more big game mentality and some have less. For example Ivanovic was while good defender, nothing special in wide term of best players in world, but a truly big game man. If Eden becomes that big game player, for all I care he can score 5 goals per season, he will be one of worlds best next to Messi and Ronaldo.

IMO Edens mentality is not quite there yet, but he still has few years to truly peak, so he has time.

 

I think you need to re-read my post particularly my empashis on the Mourinho factor and the style of "football" he played in some of those big CL matches. Bringing up players who play for Barcelona and Real Madrid is just ridiculous. When did Messi and Neymar ever play for a team that plays 90 mins of defensive football in Champions league knock out games? Right, never. 

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48 minutes ago, MrExcalibur100 said:

I think you need to re-read my post particularly my empashis on the Mourinho factor and the style of "football" he played in some of those big CL matches. Bringing up players who play for Barcelona and Real Madrid is just ridiculous. When did Messi and Neymar ever play for a team that plays 90 mins of defensive football in Champions league knock out games? Right, never. 

I did mention he deserves a pass because of that...

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