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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

On 12/03/2017 at 0:06 AM, The Skipper said:

It's not the same pragmatism as Jose's. It's different. I wouldn't necessarily call Conte pragmatic per se. Fancy football isn't just possession football. Conte implements Juego De Posicion very well at CFC, and with more quality players we'll be able to play better football, it's simple. 

You look at Napoli or Dortmund this season for example. Not possession based or fancy sides at all but they have one of the best transition football in Europe. And it's mostly based on Juego de Posicion. Their attacks can be stunning. This is what Conte is trying to implement. You can certainly have superstars that play in this way. 

You're seriously under rating the likes of Verratti and Dybala if you think they can't play well in Conte's system. Also, seriously demeaning Conte's philosophy. That Juve team Conte created was amazing and he wanted to push it even further with more superstars, but couldn't, hence resigned. Even Griezmann. You're totally ignoring that he plays for the most pragmatic top team in Europe. Of course they'd thrive under Conte. 

I didnt say Verratti or Dybala wouldnt be good at chelsea per se. But i think for example in current formation, Conte would prefer another worker ala Vidal next to Kante, not Verratti (if we talk about big difficult games). Same for winger. IMO one thing is to have Eden with rather free role, the other is having two. I know Griezmann and Dybala can track back and could be a part of this team, same as Eden. But if you look at Pedro or Willian, those two chase the ball all the way down their flank. Pedro is like a duracell rabbit when it comes to that and helps Moses alot at limiting opponents space. While Dybala and Griezmann arent lazy, they will not go so deep, mainly because they have huge quality and its better for them to wait upfront for counter attack, but by that we essentialy lose a body at pressing. Sure having Dybala would give you entirely new options in attack and could even control the game, I seriously doubt thats in Chelsea dnk. Even if we had five Edens, we would still play pragmatic in key games without any nonsense. 

Conte is different to Mou no doubt, but honestly when we will play Barca, Real, Bayern, you realy believe we will try to control the game or attack more if we had bigger stars? IMO we would score that goal and then defend while try to counter them. And players like Vidal and Pedro are more useful in such tactic than Verratti and Dybala. Juve and Atletico are similar to us in certain aspects, but they like us have that one star with rather free role like us (dybala, Griz and Eden). IMO Eden and Dybala/Griezmann could disturb the balance. Perhaps someone like Sanchez, Lemar would suit us more because of their big workrate.

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4 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

I didnt say Verratti or Dybala wouldnt be good at chelsea per se. But i think for example in current formation, Conte would prefer another worker ala Vidal next to Kante, not Verratti (if we talk about big difficult games). Same for winger. IMO one thing is to have Eden with rather free role, the other is having two. I know Griezmann and Dybala can track back and could be a part of this team, same as Eden. But if you look at Pedro or Willian, those two chase the ball all the way down their flank. Pedro is like a duracell rabbit when it comes to that and helps Moses alot at limiting opponents space. While Dybala and Griezmann arent lazy, they will not go so deep, mainly because they have huge quality and its better for them to wait upfront for counter attack, but by that we essentialy lose a body at pressing. Sure having Dybala would give you entirely new options in attack and could even control the game, I seriously doubt thats in Chelsea dnk. Even if we had five Edens, we would still play pragmatic in key games without any nonsense. 

Conte is different to Mou no doubt, but honestly when we will play Barca, Real, Bayern, you realy believe we will try to control the game or attack more if we had bigger stars? IMO we would score that goal and then defend while try to counter them. And players like Vidal and Pedro are more useful in such tactic than Verratti and Dybala. Juve and Atletico are similar to us in certain aspects, but they like us have that one star with rather free role like us (dybala, Griz and Eden). IMO Eden and Dybala/Griezmann could disturb the balance. Perhaps someone like Sanchez, Lemar would suit us more because of their big workrate.

I don't know. I think you're severely underrating Verratti and Griezmann/Dybala's work rate. You have to think about how the dynamic of the team changes with these sort of players in your side. More quality means more control, more time on the ball. Verratti can do Matic's job no? We have Matic for these big difficult games and he does okay, but you honestly don't think someone like Verratti who usually plays well in the very big games can perform his role in Conte's system? Why? You say we need a worker but someone like Verratti has a very high work rate anyway but also adds real quality to the midfield.

We haven't been that defensive in big games this season. Not in every game any way. I think you're over exaggerating how defensive we are or how defensive Conte sets us up and you're over exaggerating how much Conte wants work horses first.

To me it sounds like you think we can't fit in more top players in the side. Just because we sign a top player doesn't necessarily mean they're all getting free roles either. Griezmann doesn't really have a free role at Atletico. He has set instructions and does very well defensively for Atletico, who are more defensive than us, but you still don't think he'd fit into Conte'a system. 

Regardless, these players are quite unattainable anyway. In the Conte thread I came up with some alternatives who might be more satisfying, check it out. 

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/12/eden-hazard-antonio-conte-fantastic-privilege-play/

For now Hazard is only “thinking in the present”. “In 10 years if I don’t win the World Cup or the Euros or the Champions League and I make a great career then, for me, that’s no problem,” he says.

Disappointing. He should have higher standards.

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5 hours ago, Namika said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/12/eden-hazard-antonio-conte-fantastic-privilege-play/

For now Hazard is only “thinking in the present”. “In 10 years if I don’t win the World Cup or the Euros or the Champions League and I make a great career then, for me, that’s no problem,” he says.

Disappointing. He should have higher standards.

How many WCs, Euros and Champions Leagues does Zlatan have? 

Chelsea? likes this

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I fear he'll soon grow tired of the kicking.

He loves a game vs Utd, doesn't he? Arsenal, Utd, City, Liverpool, Spurs have all been conquered by Eden. Only Drogba and, to a lesser extent, Lamps compare when it comes to big game performances.

It's time for that next step. Europe.

Blue Armour and The Skipper like this

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2 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

When he's in this form he's more easy on the eye than a womans fanny.

I strongly disagree, excluding uninspiring bums. But it's close.

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7 minutes ago, DYC. said:

I fear he'll soon grow tired of the kicking.

I fear this as well.

 

Massive performance against utd. He always seems to step up his game against them.

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12 hours ago, DYC. said:

I fear he'll soon grow tired of the kicking.

He loves a game vs Utd, doesn't he? Arsenal, Utd, City, Liverpool, Spurs have all been conquered by Eden. Only Drogba and, to a lesser extent, Lamps compare when it comes to big game performances.

It's time for that next step. Europe.

Well the kicking won't stop. He will continually be targeted by any player, at any club, in any country. He is a unique type of player, like Messi, so this will be normal. 

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1 hour ago, It's too big said:

Well the kicking won't stop. He will continually be targeted by any player, at any club, in any country. He is a unique type of player, like Messi, so this will be normal. 

Nahh, England is the worst when it comes to the top leagues. Players are permitted so much more. In fact, they're encouraged and praised for it. I've seen a lot of Barcelona games in my life but Messi never gets kicked about like Hazard (last night was of course worse than usual). Neymar receives similar treatment but he's provocative and has given a carte blanche to defenders to come get him because of it.

I remember reading something about Ronaldo saying (behind closed doors) he grew tired of the kicking in England and it was one of the main reasons he left. Don't know if it's true but it makes sense. Thinking they have man up is nice and all but it's a gigantic pain to deal with, prevents you from playing to the best of your abilities and shortens your (top level) career.

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4 hours ago, Styles said:

I'm just relieved that a referee stood up for him and made the right decision. Had Man Utd been allowed to get away with kicking Hazard out of the game on national TV you can just imagine what opponents would think. That red sends a clear message but how many refs are that strong? Not many unfortunately.

Great performance. That turn in the first half that sent Smalling out of the stadium was breathtaking.

Quote

"If people are in love with football in this country then they must be in love with Eden Hazard," he explained in his post-match interview, with quotes taken from The Guardian.

"But the way, match to match, he's being punished by opponents and not protected by referees … maybe one day we won't have Eden Hazard.

"It's one, two, three, four, five, 10 aggressive fouls against him. They kick and kick and kick, and the kid resists. He's a very honest guy in the way he plays but that's another problem."

http://www.givemesport.com/534501-eden-hazard-needs-more-protection-from-referees-says-jose-mourinho

Then creates a plan to target Hazard. Life is funny.

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If Hazard approached every single match the way he did that one I wouldn't swap him for anyone but Messi. That's the next step in his development. To have an assassin's mentality. Currently, he'll have a match like that where he's unplayable but then follow it up with a performance where he'll play very passively.

Really, really hope the club offer him yet another improved contract this summer to keep him happy and keep his head in London. The only attacking player we have that is irreplaceable. We need at least one more CL season out of him.

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