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David Luiz


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It's sad certain members have to undermine Cahill to try and make Luiz look better, first they said he's more of a liabilty than Luiz (:lol:), as he's proved them wrong with a great season they now say he has only played well becuase of our system...

He's more suited to teams who play possesion based football because typically the defenders dont really have to defend for large periods of the game, Pique's the same, when Barca are under pressure he gets exploited every time but he's great when they are in possesion because he's one of best defenders on the ball.

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Then why was he adamant in January David Luiz isn't for sale and he was indeed kept because we so desperately needed him? Why?

Because we needed a midfielder in the Champions League since Matic was cup-tied and Luiz looks a bit like one.

Sometimes.

I really don't get what is your huge problem with him, but it's something you're entitled to and a few even feel the same. I think it's a bit too much. He isn't the best defender in the world - far from it - but he isn't as bad as you make him out to be imo. we can agree to disagree.

I don't have a huge problem with him. I think he's inconsistent in almost every respect and I think £30 million for him is a great bit of business.

- like the 2nd leg against Atlético, for example - he's a liability and the match itself showed it.

Um....the system seemed fine UNTIL one player fucked up and didn't do his job. Then we had to chase the game. It's laughable to put any of that on Cahill....different but laughable.

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David Luiz is not consistent enough to play as a CB for Chelsea, he didn't play well this season in CB and was ok in the CM position, there are many teams that want to pay 30M£ for him, and we need that money to buy better players and in position where we have more gaps.

I think he should be sold as soon as possible.

Real Madrid in 2010 with Mourinho bought Ricardo Carvalho and he played a magnificent season for Madrid for something like 5M£.

Inter also with Mourinho had Lucio as CB for something like 5M£.

Cahill is doing really well.

We don't need a CB in the bench that has a market value of 30M£ when we don't have a proper striker.

In my opinion we should sell him and maybe buy another one for less than 10M£. I don't know if we need to buy another CB because we will see what kalas or Zouma can bring to the team, and we also have Ivanovic.

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Because we needed a midfielder in the Champions League since Matic was cup-tied and Luiz looks a bit like one.

Sometimes.

I don't have a huge problem with him. I think he's inconsistent in almost every respect and I think £30 million for him is a great bit of business.

Um....the system seemed fine UNTIL one player fucked up and didn't do his job. Then we had to chase the game. It's laughable to put any of that on Cahill....different but laughable.

No, I didn't put it on Cahill. I'm just saying it showed that when we don't defend deep, Cahill struggles. I'm in no way blamimg him at all. I'm just arguing that certain conditions are difficult for him and he can't defend well in them.

It's sad certain members have to undermine Cahill to try and make Luiz look better, first they said he's more of a liabilty than Luiz ( :lol:), as he's proved them wrong with a great season they now say he has only played well becuase of our system...

He's more suited to teams who play possesion based football because typically the defenders dont really have to defend for large periods of the game, Pique's the same, when Barca are under pressure he gets exploited every time but he's great when they are in possesion because he's one of best defenders on the ball.

sure there's some agenda right. I don't even know why people don't give him a statue for his two previous seasons with us. He was certainly a rock back then wasn't he? *sarcasm*

Don't be picky... it wasn't even a comparison, but something about Cahill. If you disagree then it's your prerogative. We only have 2 seasons filled of his mistakes to defend such a point that if the line is high he has trouble finding his foot.

I'm the first one to say (as many others defending Luiz's stay) that Cahill and Terry was the partnership that earned their regular positions and that both collectively and separately had a season that can't be even compared to Luiz. What's your point, mate, in addition to being picky?

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Correct. Because we like defenders who can defend. I know it's an abstract thing and call me old-fashioned if you will, but give me a Gary Cahill or a John Terry over a Dante or David Luiz any day of the week.

Thats not the reason, imo.

With the squad quickly losing its english identity, Cahill is the only english player in the current squad that have a long term future. When Cahill was still a mere squad player, there was a poll about who should be the next captain and 90% of english members said Cahill.

This is the reason why, in the beginning of the season "only place to be" was trying really hard to prove Lampard was a useful player in the double pivot, when it was clear he wasn't suited to the role, and even Mourinho realized that: in the second leg of the season Luiz was ahead of Lampard in the picking order to play in the mid.

but thats another problem. I already said that many times in this forum: I can't believe England can't produce better players than the mediocrity of Moses, Marin, Salah. I think a club is supposed to help the local football, and players from other countries should be special ones, but suddenly trying to picture Cahill as a top 3 defender in the world is not the best way to solve this problem. I believe if Cahill was from Germany, the english members would be more lenient with Luiz.

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More like the extreme Jose lovers.

I think "only place to be" and "Tx" have a point when they say "true" supporters are also extreme Jose lovers, because when they are saying "true" supporters, they are obviously saying "english". Most of "true/real" supporters were supporting the team before Roman's money. Mourinho was the first manager to turn Chelsea into league champions after decades, but after City success, for me its clear who the real special one is. Before Mourinho, Chelsea was already a UCL semi-final side, and got a 2nd place in PL. In first season, Mourinho got the PL trophy, and the same UCL semi-final of the previous season. After he left we finally reached an UCL final, produced the best football of Abramovich era under Ancelotti and the 100+ goals double, and won the biggest trophy of all in 2012 (for me its quite ridiculous that Mourinho tries to get some credit for the 12 UCL glory).

I'm not trying to dismiss Mourinho as an ordinary manager, but seeing Mourinho as a godlike manager, is far from a rational thinking.

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I think "only place to be" and "Tx" have a point when they say "true" supporters are also extreme Jose lovers, because when they are saying "true" supporters, they are obviously saying "english". Most of "true/real" supporters were supporting the team before Roman's money. Mourinho was the first manager to turn Chelsea into league champions after decades, but after City success, for me its clear who the real special one is. Before Mourinho, Chelsea was already a UCL semi-final side, and got a 2nd place in PL. In first season, Mourinho got the PL trophy, and the same UCL semi-final of the previous season. After he left we finally reached an UCL final, produced the best football of Abramovich era under Ancelotti and the 100+ goals double, and won the biggest trophy of all in 2012 (for me its quite ridiculous that Mourinho tries to get some credit for the 12 UCL glory).

I'm not trying to dismiss Mourinho as an ordinary manager, but seeing Mourinho as a godlike manager, is far from a rational thinking.

Mourinho is GOD!

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I think its quite the opposite: we have people undermining Luiz to make Cahill look better, but Cahill became the new hero for the english, so discussing this subject here is a lost case.

Mourinho has a track record of bringing the best out of several players, so you don't think he could do that with Cahill? He's getting a starting spot for England speaks for itself.

Also, Mourinho must not be shit since he didn't win the CL with us, and only won a few trophies, right? He only won a couple of League Titles and FA Cups. Ancelotti and DiMatteo are much better even though combined they haven't won as much as Mou COMBINED.

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Thats not the reason, imo.

With the squad quickly losing its english identity, Cahill is the only english player in the current squad that have a long term future. When Cahill was still a mere squad player, there was a poll about who should be the next captain and 90% of english members said Cahill.

This is the reason why, in the beginning of the season "only place to be" was trying really hard to prove Lampard was a useful player in the double pivot, when it was clear he wasn't suited to the role, and even Mourinho realized that: in the second leg of the season Luiz was ahead of Lampard in the picking order to play in the mid.

but thats another problem. I already said that many times in this forum: I can't believe England can't produce better players than the mediocrity of Moses, Marin, Salah. I think a club is supposed to help the local football, and players from other countries should be special ones, but suddenly trying to picture Cahill as a top 3 defender in the world is not the best way to solve this problem. I believe if Cahill was from Germany, the english members would be more lenient with Luiz.

I see your point and accept it. I'm just speaking for myself when I prefer Cahill as a defender to Luiz. Luiz is definitely the superior footballer on a technical level. I think he and Matic in the pivot is our best option unless we spend big in the summer on a midfielder. But as a centre-back, his lapses are too frequent for me. Cahill is your typical "safe" English-style defender, which I like to have in front of me as a goalkeeper myself, and the same applies for the team I support.

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Technically Luiz cost the club £46m. The £24m we paid Benfica plus the £22m, the player that was involved in the exchange (Matic), cost to reacquire. The only way his actual value would have appreciated was if he was valued at/ or sold for £46m plus.

That's just a flawed and ridiculous way of thinking. If Matic hadn't been involved in the Luiz deal, he would either have been sold for peanuts in the summer of 2011 anyway or sent on numerous loans where he most certainly would not have made the same progress he did at Benfica. It's very unlikely he would have turned out the same player if we'd kept him.

Fact remains Luiz joined the club for €25m and will now be leaving for a price more than that. In his time at the club he has been a massive part of a team that has won Champions League, FA Cup and Europa League trophies in three years. How anyone can say that is not a good return for our initial investment is beyond me.

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The amount of money paid for Luiz & Matic included in that deal, cost the club plenty.

If Luiz is sold for 30m now, most likely Chelsea won´t make any money or very little from the deal.

Chelsea are weighing up a swap bid for M. Mandzukic. Since Bayern is interested in Luiz, maybe it wouldn´t be so bad to swap for Mandzukic.

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I think "only place to be" and "Tx" have a point when they say "true" supporters are also extreme Jose lovers, because when they are saying "true" supporters, they are obviously saying "english".

No, that isn't obvious. I've known proper supporters of this club who come from many different backgrounds and countries. Again you want to paint this some kind of xenophobic bullshit when it's nothing of the sort. Having read your 'hotseat' you do seem a little unworldly and naive (no offence) and maybe want to see 'injustice' where there is none.

but seeing Mourinho as a godlike manager, is far from a rational thinking.

Being a football supporter isn't a rational thing. It's about emotion and the Chelsea support (the proper Chelsea support) will always have a special bond with Jose not just because of the trophies he won but because of his personality. There is no more perfect a man to be manager of a club off the King's Road in this particular part of West London with this particular set of supporters than Jose Mourinho.

You clearly don't understand that. You might never.

Anyway, back to the Luiz deal.....apparently he only has two years left on his deal which means this summer window is the highest his value will be unless he signs a new contract. I've heard nothing about contract talks in the last year which is a little surprising but any deal would almost certainly see an increase in his wages. So there's another wrinkle.

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The teams interested in David and the rumoured values they are willing to pay, together with the styles those teams play when compared to ours indicates to me that David's talents, skills, maturity, consistency, leadership, personality, haircut, funny faces, brain cramps, etc... are more suited to a different team playing style. It indicates that these other teams see value in him and shows, to me, that Chelsea are not utilizing him to HIS potential. There is no requirement, rule, or obligation for Mourinho, Chelsea, or anyone in Chelsea's organization to modify the system to accommodate David. It's plain and simple and obvious to most everyone here that David does not suit the strategies/tactics that Chelsea are currently employing. Its also plain and simple and obvious that BIG teams are tripping over each other to try and add Luiz with all of his positives and negatives to their system. Those teams will most likely cater to Luiz's natural instincts and playing style and will gladly accept the wrinkles that will come along with it.

Like I said, no obligation on our part to accept what he brings to the table, no player is bigger than the team. It's just interesting to observe how some teams encourage the individuality while others would encourage the same players to modify their games to fit within the team's structure. It's not an "I'm right, you're wrong" conversation. It's just two different points of view, with each side more than comfortable defending their opinions.

Perfectly said.

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Nat for me, especially as I think Ake might go out on loan.

Totally agree....I actually think Aké has to go out on loan.

Playing in the U-21's next season would just stagnate his development

Would be interesting to see Aké or Baker go on loan to Middlesbrough next season

Back to the Luiz topic...I love him as a player but 30 million could help us sign a top-class midfielder

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