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BlueLion.

30. David Luiz

Started by BlueLion.,

7,954 posts in this topic
21 minutes ago, the wes said:

he was awful against city he was doing a lot of ball watching I'm afraid we will leaky alot of goals if he continues playing at the back 

Hes been doing a lot of ball watching his entire Chelsea career. Its annoys fuck out me because that and recklessly trying to step out and fouling someone or taking himself out the game trying that happens almost every week. Conte and that back 3 helped him the first season he came back but old habits die hard, we seen last season where the same errors became more apparent. His quality on the ball was always going to buy him a life line under Sarri but still don't think it should make him a shoe in. Defenders should be able to defend to a degree first and foremost, Alonso as well, he can defend but lacks the pace to recover or get back in if hes been high up, which is a shame because it will hurt the team and if he was a wee bit quicker he'd be more than solid enough but even in some attacking situations you see his lack of pace can let us down. I have big doubts about Luiz and Alonso in a back 4 against a top team, can't wait to see it. 

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5 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hes been doing a lot of ball watching his entire Chelsea career. Its annoys fuck out me because that and recklessly trying to step out and fouling someone or taking himself out the game trying that happens almost every week. Conte and that back 3 helped him the first season he came back but old habits die hard, we seen last season where the same errors became more apparent. His quality on the ball was always going to buy him a life line under Sarri but still don't think it should make him a shoe in. Defenders should be able to defend to a degree first and foremost, Alonso as well, he can defend but lacks the pace to recover or get back in if hes been high up, which is a shame because it will hurt the team and if he was a wee bit quicker he'd be more than solid enough but even in some attacking situations you see his lack of pace can let us down. I have big doubts about Luiz and Alonso in a back 4 against a top team, can't wait to see it. 

Everything you said there I 100% agree with mate I can't understand why Emerson hasn't been giving a fair chance ?

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4 minutes ago, the wes said:

Everything you said there I 100% agree with mate I can't understand why Emerson hasn't been giving a fair chance ?

Regarding Alonso, I'll go out in a limb and say that perhaps the second manager, several coaches, and staff see something in practice that we don't get too see. I tend to think the starter faces the tougher opponents (than the subs), so it's usually unfair to compare them. I feel his lack of pace is exaggerated and it's a simplistic view akin to when folks say that when Hazard beats a player, it's one less defender the attack has to deal with. In any working system, neither would be true. I actually think Alonso, being the polar opposite of Azpi, is a great fit in terms of characteristics, but that's just me. Still, I feel Emerson will get minutes this season and will be able to show is value to the team. Also suspect his injury history makes the coaches a bit cautious with him, perhaps doing some strengthening on the side too.

D.Luiz is far more quirky case than Alonso. You can play Luiz as a CB, but the system has to be tweaked so much that few teams and managers are willing to do so. He gives you a lot though: his passing is of jorginho quality (would say D.Luiz has better range actually), which is of course not a key ability for a CB. But when you are pressing the opposition, David Luiz can really help a side... could def see him working well under Pep for ex.

Not overly worried. I honestly don't think the defense will be more exposed in Sarri's formation. The 4 in the back will be well protected by 2 player who defend well, plus others who can help as well (Ross). 

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52 minutes ago, the wes said:

Everything you said there I 100% agree with mate I can't understand why Emerson hasn't been giving a fair chance ?

I know but again Alonso isn't necessarily a bad player, hes been pretty solid and done well offensively since coming here, its just the lack of pace in a flat back 4 I think if he goes up or gets targeted by a Salah/Sterling/Sanchez or somebody who has genuine raw pace he will be found out a bit. He adds height, good option offensively and defensively from set plays, his attacking play is actually decent and hes obviously cool and collected on the ball so he fits the bill of what Sarri wants in a left back. I think Emerson is a good player too but maybe a bit more rough around the edges, maybe not, that couple of yards of pace he has on Alonso gives him a case but I am under the impression that hes not as defensively sound as Alonso. I'd like to see him be tried more this season than under Conte and even Zappacosta has looked a different man under Sarri in pre-season (which I suppose its only pre season but still) so I think our full back options (Azpi first choice at RB obviously) are more than decent enough just a few slight concerns regarding that. I am genuinely more concerned about Luiz than Alonso in terms of defending.  

 

33 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Regarding Alonso, I'll go out in a limb and say that perhaps the second manager, several coaches, and staff see something in practice that we don't get too see. I tend to think the starter faces the tougher opponents (than the subs), so it's usually unfair to compare them. I feel his lack of pace is exaggerated and it's a simplistic view akin to when folks say that when Hazard beats a player, it's one less defender the attack has to deal with. In any working system, neither would be true. I actually think Alonso, being the polar opposite of Azpi, is a great fit in terms of characteristics, but that's just me. Still, I feel Emerson will get minutes this season and will be able to show is value to the team. Also suspect his injury history makes the coaches a bit cautious with him, perhaps doing some strengthening on the side too.

D.Luiz is far more quirky case than Alonso. You can play Luiz as a CB, but the system has to be tweaked so much that few teams and managers are willing to do so. He gives you a lot though: his passing is of jorginho quality (would say D.Luiz has better range actually), which is of course not a key ability for a CB. But when you are pressing the opposition, David Luiz can really help a side... could def see him working well under Pep for ex.

Not overly worried. I honestly don't think the defense will be more exposed in Sarri's formation. The 4 in the back will be well protected by 2 player who defend well, plus others who can help as well (Ross). 

No definitely 100% I think the pace is really his only weakness. Hes hardly slow as fuck but if he was a yard or two quicker I'd be a bit more confident in him defensively (hes more than solid enough but that bit of pace would be helpful against the guys I'd named up there, who are 100mph breakneck speed), maybe its an unfair criticism maybe not. 

Luiz's passing is a plus but I think its slightly overrated too, I think you look at Rudiger and Christensen, these guys are more than confident enough with the ball, they aren't going to panic and just punt it but there's been plenty of times over Luiz's career where hes willing to go for the spectacular pass too often, trying to force things and it doesn't come off and again it will happen probably, not always the worst thing but I am much more concerned about him defending at times because he can be extremely reckless or just doze off and he gets away with it sometimes and I feel that with this new way of playing, adapting to it for a while he might just get that complacency creeping in like last season before he got dropped/injured (the year after he had an outstanding season and was probably one of the best CBs in Europe I might add) and it could cost us. Hopefully not but I've never been 100% convinced about Luiz defensively. 

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On 8/12/2018 at 5:50 PM, OneMoSalah said:

I know but again Alonso isn't necessarily a bad player, hes been pretty solid and done well offensively since coming here, its just the lack of pace in a flat back 4 I think if he goes up or gets targeted by a Salah/Sterling/Sanchez or somebody who has genuine raw pace he will be found out a bit. He adds height, good option offensively and defensively from set plays, his attacking play is actually decent and hes obviously cool and collected on the ball so he fits the bill of what Sarri wants in a left back. I think Emerson is a good player too but maybe a bit more rough around the edges, maybe not, that couple of yards of pace he has on Alonso gives him a case but I am under the impression that hes not as defensively sound as Alonso. I'd like to see him be tried more this season than under Conte and even Zappacosta has looked a different man under Sarri in pre-season (which I suppose its only pre season but still) so I think our full back options (Azpi first choice at RB obviously) are more than decent enough just a few slight concerns regarding that. I am genuinely more concerned about Luiz than Alonso in terms of defending.  

 

No definitely 100% I think the pace is really his only weakness. Hes hardly slow as fuck but if he was a yard or two quicker I'd be a bit more confident in him defensively (hes more than solid enough but that bit of pace would be helpful against the guys I'd named up there, who are 100mph breakneck speed), maybe its an unfair criticism maybe not. 

Luiz's passing is a plus but I think its slightly overrated too, I think you look at Rudiger and Christensen, these guys are more than confident enough with the ball, they aren't going to panic and just punt it but there's been plenty of times over Luiz's career where hes willing to go for the spectacular pass too often, trying to force things and it doesn't come off and again it will happen probably, not always the worst thing but I am much more concerned about him defending at times because he can be extremely reckless or just doze off and he gets away with it sometimes and I feel that with this new way of playing, adapting to it for a while he might just get that complacency creeping in like last season before he got dropped/injured (the year after he had an outstanding season and was probably one of the best CBs in Europe I might add) and it could cost us. Hopefully not but I've never been 100% convinced about Luiz defensively. 

agree with everything else except on Luiz passing. Some of his passing against Huddersfield was just incredible, like fast forward passes in between players, which are difficult to intercept. Some of them were a bit too heavy for Pedro (not the greatest first touch either :)). But once again, this was against very weak opposition...

D.Luiz seems to be at his best against both the very weak and the toughest opposition... :) anything in between and he's in trouble

 

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1 hour ago, Robguima said:

agree with everything else except on Luiz passing. Some of his passing against Huddersfield were just incredible, like fast forward passes in between players, which are difficult to intercept. Some of them were a bit too heavy for Pedro (not the greatest first touch either :)). But once again, this was against very weak opposition...

D.Luiz seems to be at his best against both the very weak and the toughest opposition... :) anything in between and he's in trouble

 

I don't like D.luiz defending as much as the average chelsea fan but from what I saw against Huddersfield, he has become very crucial to our tactics. Jorginho is going to be targeted, man-marked, and we need someone from the back who can spread the play and take control. D.luiz is one of the best in the world at this. Sarri will have noticed this, and this is why I think Luiz and Rudiger (our best CB long range passers) will be our starting CBs for the rest of the season.

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33 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

I don't like D.luiz defending as much as the average chelsea fan but from what I saw against Huddersfield, he has become very crucial to our tactics. Jorginho is going to be targeted, man-marked, and we need someone from the back who can spread the play and take control. D.luiz is one of the best in the world at this. Sarri will have noticed this, and this is why I think Luiz and Rudiger (our best CB long range passers) will be our starting CBs for the rest of the season.

Yep, that's the way I see it too.. 

I really don't like Rudiger though.

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14 hours ago, yuvala said:

Yep, that's the way I see it too.. 

I really don't like Rudiger though.

Why? is he too rash in his tackles for your liking?

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8 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

Why? is he too rash in his tackles for your liking?

with the ball he is terrible imho

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13 minutes ago, the wes said:

We will leak a lot of goals if Luiz starts in that line up mate its a shame we didn't get Rugani

True. He has this occasional loss of concentration during games that frustrate me. I hope our left wing of Alonso-luiz is not targeted/exploited too much this season...

11 minutes ago, Antonio8 said:

with the ball he is terrible imho

Are you talking about Rudiger or Cahill??

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With this chap you have to take the rough with the smooth.

No hes nit the best defende (which should be a major requirement but in a modern CB game it sometimes gets looked over. Bigger problem is that he seems to wander off in his mind. *brainfart) He loses his concentration, forgets where hes situated and he is nowhere near the guy hes supposed to be marking. Then when he snaps back in he goes skitzoid and it can cause problems.

But yes he does have a good range of passes whick in a Sarri system is very useful. Sarri has already said a couple of times just how important he is going to be for us (just as Conte said he could be world class)

Peeps are saying Jorgi is going to be man marked and luiz will be handy, Well true but we forget just how good Kovacic is at spreading the ball around too. All he has to do is drop back in that situation and let Jorgi go forward. We have allot of options now.

We have gone from having only Cescy as any sort of creativity to 2 of the best MF going plus one or 2 good CBs that are more than capable on the ball.

Ive gone from being basically quite pessimistic pre Sarri joining to feeling like I did in Mous 1st joining and Contes joining.

Course its going to take time to be fully sorted and no doubt will be a hickup or 2 but its going to be fun.

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Christensen is a good distributor as well. He has shown Luiz level distribution at times, and is slightly more sound defensively. The issue is with more physical players he still struggles. Luiz is a tank back there as well. 

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6 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

True. He has this occasional loss of concentration during games that frustrate me. I hope our left wing of Alonso-luiz is not targeted/exploited too much this season...

Are you talking about Rudiger or Cahill??

rudiger (cahill is almost an ex player)

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Christensen and Rudiger are our 2 best CB's. They need to start. AC  wasn't bullied in the WC and he looks to have put on a wee bit of muscle in last 3 months. Also, it really is a shame we didn't get Rugani. I know he got a lot of hate here but he is the real deal. Sarri and Juve are not idiots. Juve chose him over Caldara and Caldara would start for most EPL teams.

If Lpool had plucked Caldara and had not backed out of the Fekir deal, they would have an excellent shot at taking out Shitty for the title. If Joe Gomez plays yearlong at CB like he did last game, they still might, but their attacking depth is missing, especially with Ox out for the year. Lallana is one of the most overrated players in last 10 years. Never rated him.

Another option for us at CB (I do grant he is only 19, 20 at end of October, but wow what a player already) would have been Dayot Upamecano from RB Leipzig. Good on the ball and a real thumper already.

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I think its pretty obvious that it wasn't only Willian that was bitching about Conte in the dressing room.  At the time all those reported spats of Luiz and Conte was coming out and they were trying to cover it up with the continuous injury BS.

But you just know that the 2 best mates were stirring the pot back stage and all that negativity DOES rub off mo matter how much you try not to listen.

And once one of them start getting bench time like Willian not playing because Pedros got the RW and Eden will be fit and hopefully AC starts pushing for the Luiz spot, the same thing is bound to re occur. No matter how happy everyone is right now.

I dont like this  problem we seem to get with player power but as the articles have come out this week its not only Manure that the manager fails to keep respect. The players have the power unless the club gets behimd the manager and in allot of cases its just easier to find a manager and start fresh than lose players!

Chelsea news: David Luiz makes Antonio Conte transfer revelation

CHELSEA star David Luiz is the latest player to claim he would have left the club if Antonio Conte was still in charge.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1008599/Chelsea-transfer-news-David-Luiz-Antonio-Conte-Willian-Maurizio-Sarri

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18 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

I think its pretty obvious that it wasn't only Willian that was bitching about Conte in the dressing room.  At the time all those reported spats of Luiz and Conte was coming out and they were trying to cover it up with the continuous injury BS.

But you just know that the 2 best mates were stirring the pot back stage and all that negativity DOES rub off mo matter how much you try not to listen.

And once one of them start getting bench time like Willian not playing because Pedros got the RW and Eden will be fit and hopefully AC starts pushing for the Luiz spot, the same thing is bound to re occur. No matter how happy everyone is right now.

I dont like this  problem we seem to get with player power but as the articles have come out this week its not only Manure that the manager fails to keep respect. The players have the power unless the club gets behimd the manager and in allot of cases its just easier to find a manager and start fresh than lose players!

Chelsea news: David Luiz makes Antonio Conte transfer revelation

CHELSEA star David Luiz is the latest player to claim he would have left the club if Antonio Conte was still in charge.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1008599/Chelsea-transfer-news-David-Luiz-Antonio-Conte-Willian-Maurizio-Sarri

there is just too much player power in football imo and its a disgrace how many managers get the axe because of spoiled primmadonas. Chelsea is a good example of player power and i pray to God they dont try anything with Sarri, im sick and tired of these cunts getting away with everything and the manager always being made a scapegoat. No top manager can survive in a toxic and backstabing environment. Cheers

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29 minutes ago, Johnnyeye said:

there is just too much player power in football imo and its a disgrace how many managers get the axe because of spoiled primmadonas. Chelsea is a good example of player power and i pray to God they dont try anything with Sarri, im sick and tired of these cunts getting away with everything and the manager always being made a scapegoat. No top manager can survive in a toxic and backstabing environment. Cheers

Hate to generalise, but these situations mostly always happens with south American players. They are way too disloyal. 

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