Nathan Aké

[Fernando 6,375]

Well he must be either that bad that he can't take Moses place when injured and Conte uses Pedro. 

Or conte is like many managers of the past that just don't do youth? 

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,733]

I knew he wasn't going to play when we brought him back.

[the wes 7,212]

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

Or has anybody just considered hes just not good enough to play ahead of Cahill or Pedro? Because I assure you if he was good enough he'd of played in Alonso's place or would have taken Cahill's role as LCB. Harsh realities here, we cant assume every player we have out on loan is going to be a good player for us. Sure we have had exceptions, Christensen will also be in that mold I would imagine but the harsh realities are that playing CB for Bournemouth and Chelsea is two hugely different things. 1) Is he even ready to play for Chelsea? 2) What is his best position, he is able to play CB, LB and DM, that to me is a good advantage for some teams but also a disadvantage because whats his best position? Where do you play him continuously? I'm sure Benitez thought he would be a good option at CDM and Conte probably thinks CB or LWB? 3) He is a home grown player, that is probably the only reason hes back in the squad. 

[Special Juan 27,093]

4 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Or has anybody just considered hes just not good enough to play ahead of Cahill or Pedro? Because I assure you if he was good enough he'd of played in Alonso's place or would have taken Cahill's role as LCB. Harsh realities here, we cant assume every player we have out on loan is going to be a good player for us. Sure we have had exceptions, Christensen will also be in that mold I would imagine but the harsh realities are that playing CB for Bournemouth and Chelsea is two hugely different things. 1) Is he even ready to play for Chelsea? 2) What is his best position, he is able to play CB, LB and DM, that to me is a good advantage for some teams but also a disadvantage because whats his best position? Where do you play him continuously? I'm sure Benitez thought he would be a good option at CDM and Conte probably thinks CB or LWB? 3) He is a home grown player, that is probably the only reason hes back in the squad. 

The counter argument to that is difficult because he's been fetched back and hasn't even been given a sniff. Like I said in an earlier thread, had he been blooded in since his arrival back even for 20-30 minutes at a time, maybe, just maybe he would of slotted in for Alonso yesterday. Instead, what we had was an emergency situation that nobody saw coming and it was back to square pegs in round holes.

[coolhead23 1,146]

20 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Or has anybody just considered hes just not good enough to play ahead of Cahill or Pedro? Because I assure you if he was good enough he'd of played in Alonso's place or would have taken Cahill's role as LCB. Harsh realities here, we cant assume every player we have out on loan is going to be a good player for us. Sure we have had exceptions, Christensen will also be in that mold I would imagine but the harsh realities are that playing CB for Bournemouth and Chelsea is two hugely different things. 1) Is he even ready to play for Chelsea? 2) What is his best position, he is able to play CB, LB and DM, that to me is a good advantage for some teams but also a disadvantage because whats his best position? Where do you play him continuously? I'm sure Benitez thought he would be a good option at CDM and Conte probably thinks CB or LWB? 3) He is a home grown player, that is probably the only reason hes back in the squad. 

Maybe you're correct, maybe he doesnt fit here ... however if that is the case then why did we recall the player who was doing extremely well at Bournemouth, he was a starter there and getting regular football... more importantly doing well. Recalling him means no sense when we are not going to give him any time on the field. Again he been a home grown player and not getting a single minute makes no sense. 

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

6 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Maybe you're correct, maybe he doesnt fit here ... however if that is the case then why did we recall the player who was doing extremely well at Bournemouth, he was a starter there and getting regular football... more importantly doing well. Recalling him means no sense when we are not going to give him any time on the field. Again he been a home grown player and not getting a single minute makes no sense. 

But also a potential option for depth. I doubt Conte expects anyone to get major injuries but its better to have someone as a back up or to rotate with Alonso/Cahill incase they do. Maybe he overestimated the players level too? I don't know, maybe I'm underestimating his level as well its just a matter of opinion but its clear Ake is thought of highly at club but until I see him doing well in a Chelsea shirt the verdict is still out. Also we sold Ivanovic in January so it was a like for like replacement maybe, both can be a CB or wing back option.

[robsblubot 3,205]

5 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Maybe you're correct, maybe he doesnt fit here ... however if that is the case then why did we recall the player who was doing extremely well at Bournemouth, he was a starter there and getting regular football... more importantly doing well. Recalling him means no sense when we are not going to give him any time on the field. Again he been a home grown player and not getting a single minute makes no sense. 

difficult to say, but perhaps the fact that he's homegrown played a big part when the club needed to find cover for certain positions Ake is familiar with.

Or as far as we know this IS his chance at chelsea! perhaps the club really did think to give him a shot after the many good performances he's had. So, this could be his big break and he might not be impressing the manager enough to get minutes. Or they might be preparing him, letting him bake for next season as suggested above.

It's tough on the player, sure, but it's not easy for a big club to give minutes to aspiring players when every point counts. Doesn't even the FA discourage clubs from heavily rotating in cup matches?

[coolhead23 1,146]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

But also a potential option for depth. I doubt Conte expects anyone to get major injuries but its better to have someone as a back up or to rotate with Alonso/Cahill incase they do. Maybe he overestimated the players level too? I don't know, maybe I'm underestimating his level as well its just a matter of opinion but its clear Ake is thought of highly at club but until I see him doing well in a Chelsea shirt the verdict is still out. Also we sold Ivanovic in January so it was a like for like replacement maybe, both can be a CB or wing back option.

Come on, mate ... Common sense!!! What is the point in having depth when we are not going to give any minutes to the kid. How does it make a difference if you have 23 players or 22 because for all those who dont get games are just making numbers which has no value. Yesterday was the best example of playing the ones who are not getting chance or who have been brought in for depth  ... I feel Ake could have done a job based on his stints at Watford and Bournemouth. 

Again i m not denying what you mentioned before but it is baffling as to why should we get back a player who is doing well and hardly making the team sheet in here. I m just confused.... 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

2 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Come on, mate ... Common sense!!! What is the point in having depth when we are not going to give any minutes to the kid. How does it make a difference if you have 23 players or 22 because for all those who dont get games are just making numbers which has no value. Yesterday was the best example of playing the ones who are not getting chance or who have been brought in for depth  ... I feel Ake could have done a job based on his stints at Watford and Bournemouth. 

Again i m not denying what you mentioned before but it is baffling as to why should we get back a player who is doing well and hardly making the team sheet in here. I m just confused.... 

 

Hes making up the numbers obviously!! Ivanovic left so we needed another CB/WB player... so we recalled one. If it was a player to be used in the first team regularly do you really think they would of recalled Ake ahead of Christensen? 

[coolhead23 1,146]

1 minute ago, Robguima said:

difficult to say, but perhaps the fact that he's homegrown played a big part when the club needed to find cover for certain positions Ake is familiar with.

Or as far as we know this IS his chance at chelsea! perhaps the club really did think to give him a shot after the many good performances he's had. So, this could be his big break and he might not be impressing the manager enough to get minutes. Or they might be preparing him, letting him bake for next season as suggested above.

It's tough on the player, sure, but it's not easy for a big club to give minutes to aspiring players when every point counts. Doesn't even the FA discourage clubs from heavily rotating in cup matches?

As i mentioned above what is the point in having one extra player if he is not getting into the team sheet forget minutes because that player's contribution is zero.

The theory that he is not impressing the manager is just too vague for me because both managers have really praised him for his work rate in the last 2 clubs and he is a young lad without any issues. If we are preparing him for next season, my argument would be atleast give him some minutes like Chalobab and Loftus Cheek. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hes making up the numbers obviously!! Ivanovic left so we needed another CB/WB player... so we recalled one. If it was a player to be used in the first team regularly do you really think they would of recalled Ake ahead of Christensen? 

My argument is what's the point in making the numbers!!! I dont know who would they recall Ake or Christensen because end of the day it makes no sense to recall someone and not use him when the need is there. Why didnt we just buy someone in Jan when we knew Ivanovic was moving out instead of recalling?

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

Just now, coolhead23 said:

My argument is what's the point in making the numbers!!! I dont know who would they recall Ake or Christensen because end of the day it makes no sense to recall someone and not use him when the need is there. Why didnt we just buy someone in Jan when we knew Ivanovic was moving out instead of recalling?

Football is a squad game. 23-25 players or whatever but how often do you ever need to use more than 18 players a season regularly unless you have massive injuries or constantly get suspensions/injuries. It was obviously an easier and cheaper option than going into the market to sign somebody in January, which is notoriously difficult to buy in. Maybe he will be part of the squad again next year and this last few months he has been learning tactical aspects because he didn't have a pre-season with Chelsea? Its almost more difficult for players who don't get a pre-season at any club. But who knows? 

[Stats 6,980]

People can come up with all the excuses of why he came back but the reality is it what is a stupid decision to bring him back. From playing every minute at a PL club and looking very impressive to being called back to the club only to be majority of the times not even in the matchday squad.

[coolhead23 1,146]

27 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Football is a squad game. 23-25 players or whatever but how often do you ever need to use more than 18 players a season regularly unless you have massive injuries or constantly get suspensions/injuries. It was obviously an easier and cheaper option than going into the market to sign somebody in January, which is notoriously difficult to buy in. Maybe he will be part of the squad again next year and this last few months he has been learning tactical aspects because he didn't have a pre-season with Chelsea? Its almost more difficult for players who don't get a pre-season at any club. But who knows? 

I m well aware that Football is a squad game. But why get a player who is doing really well somewhere else and he hardly is on the team sheet forget the minutes? We have so many players on loan who we know are never going to make it to the first team, pick anyone out of them to make the numbers, pick someone from the youth squad to make up the numbers ... why pick someone who is doing well if we're not going to offer anything to him.

I get the logic that we shouldnt be tweaking the winning combination but yesterday was an opportunity and we still go for it. We changed the formation to accommodate Willian but didnt go a 3-5-2 where again Ake could have got a chance. 

And he has been regularly playing football at the PL level, doesnt need a pre-season to prove himself.

The only conclusion I can make out is ... If he doesnt enjoy the manager's confidence and he was forced to be part of the team just like Batshuayi from the Chelsea hierarchy then we would have a problem going forward. 

[zakhov 253]

Really disappointed that Ake didn't get a sniff in. With Alonso injured he was the only one suited to deputising and at the same time keeping our shape at the back.

Zouma hasn't shown anything to suggest he fits in the 3 at the back system unfortunately. In the cup games, Ake had always done well at LB regardless of the opposition.

Azpi at LB backfired big time and he ended up over-tinkering with the formation, and ultimately confused some of the players (from what I saw). 

[manpe 10,855]

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Or has anybody just considered hes just not good enough to play ahead of Cahill or Pedro? Because I assure you if he was good enough he'd of played in Alonso's place or would have taken Cahill's role as LCB.

Nah man, blind trust is not what fuels an internet forum. Also, we lost, so that means mistakes were made from manager down. I feel this was one. Jose proved last season that we have every right to question world class managers' judgement. Conte has shown extraordinary judgement so far, but mistakes have been made for sure and I believe Michy and Ake are two players who he has mishandled and it's started to bite us in the finishing sprint.

[robsblubot 3,205]

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Nah man, blind trust is not what fuels an internet forum. Also, we lost, so that means mistakes were made from manager down. I feel this was one. Jose proved last season that we have every right to question world class managers' judgement. Conte has shown extraordinary judgement so far, but mistakes have been made for sure and I believe Michy and Ake are two players who he has mishandled and it's started to bite us in the finishing sprint.

"I believe Michy and Ake are two players who he has mishandled" perhaps you are right and a bit insensitive from the club with Ake.

"it's started to bite us in the finishing sprint." Now this is a conclusion leap: there is zero evidence that the two facts are tied. Whether they were or not mishandled, using them more would've probably made no difference. Are they so much *better* than the players who played? Are the players who have been playing tired by chance?

For me at least, it is far more likely this is just showing the limitations of our squad in terms of quality.