Politics & Stuff

[EBH 283]

On the topic of the Israeli-Palestine conflict, the most obvious thing to do is to get rid of both Israel and Palestine and create a new country there which has absolutely no religious affiliation and is initially populated based on ethnicity rather than religion - only ethnic Middle Easterners, Muslim or Jew, should be allowed to settle in the country once it's formed (obviously everyone else can apply for entry visas and later citizenship if they want, I'm not suggesting a finite barrier between that part of the Middle East and the rest of the world). All the European Jews who flooded in after the end of the Second World War should be deported back to Germany/wherever. It isn't fair on the indigenous Muslims or the indigenous Jews of Israel that their lands were completely overwhelmed by blond haired, blue eyed Europeans who suffered genocide at the hands of a German government. If there is sufficient justification for a Jewish state, then it should by rights be somewhere in Europe, which is where the Holocaust was perpetuated. Why Israel? Because it was 'originally' a Jewish country well over two millenia ago? Right. By that sort of reasoning, we might as well pack up and leave North and South America, Africa and Australia because all of it is CAPTURED LAND that originally belonged to whoever it was that lived there first.

Shit happens. Judea was finished 2000 years ago. It will never return. In those 2000 years plenty of other people have made Israel their home. Why should they be marginalized and thrown out on account of the actions of a few thousand Germans? How is it fair to punish them for something they never did while those that did do it are currently dominating the Eurozone?

Jews are not a race. This man is Jewish. Is Israel his ancestral land? Is it fuck. And yet he is permitted to live in Israel and presumably enjoys greater opportunity and less oppression from the government than a Muslim who can genuinely call Israel his ancestral homeland.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

On the topic of the Israeli-Palestine conflict, the most obvious thing to do is to get rid of both Israel and Palestine and create a new country there which has absolutely no religious affiliation and is initially populated based on ethnicity rather than religion - only ethnic Middle Easterners, Muslim or Jew, should be allowed to settle in the country once it's formed (obviously everyone else can apply for entry visas and later citizenship if they want, I'm not suggesting a finite barrier between that part of the Middle East and the rest of the world). All the European Jews who flooded in after the end of the Second World War should be deported back to Germany/wherever. It isn't fair on the indigenous Muslims or the indigenous Jews of Israel that their lands were completely overwhelmed by blond haired, blue eyed Europeans who suffered genocide at the hands of a German government. If there is sufficient justification for a Jewish state, then it should by rights be somewhere in Europe, which is where the Holocaust was perpetuated. Why Israel? Because it was 'originally' a Jewish country well over two millenia ago? Right. By that sort of reasoning, we might as well pack up and leave North and South America, Africa and Australia because all of it is CAPTURED LAND that originally belonged to whoever it was that lived there first.

Shit happens. Judea was finished 2000 years ago. It will never return. In those 2000 years plenty of other people have made Israel their home. Why should they be marginalized and thrown out on account of the actions of a few thousand Germans? How is it fair to punish them for something they never did while those that did do it are currently dominating the Eurozone?

Jews are not a race. This man is Jewish. Is Israel his ancestral land? Is it fuck. And yet he is permitted to live in Israel and presumably enjoys greater opportunity and less oppression from the government than a Muslim who can genuinely call Israel his ancestral homeland.

Funny you say that. Check this out

[Stingray 9,441]

Very interesting... it's Hebrew in the start but mostly english watch it...

I am sorry, but that is completely the reverse. Check the US and UK mainstream - press and opinions - they have similar opinions than her. She, however, is indeed 'scorned' by academia, but that is because she talks bollocks. Academia works on different grounds - work with facts.

Eg: http://www.theguardian.com/science/political-science/2013/may/13/stephen-hawking-boycott-israel-science

The facts are there - check the death tolls ,Check what the ex heads of Shin Bet say themselves, check what everyone NOT in the right wing camp is saying. Check the UN, Check human rights watchers, ....... Btw, she only mentions one-liners, not a SINGLE fact. Also, I couldn't care less about the 'deep historical unique claim' she ascribes to the Jewish people.Anyway, I understand you cannot be objective on a moving train. Im sure this is all propaganda to you instead of facts:

Warning ! Disturbing images:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126226385@N06/with/14665838693/

I just have ONE question for you, just ONE. Do you think, honestly think, that Palestinians are equal to Israeli's? I dare you to speak your heart.

[EBH 283]

It is absolutely ridiculous to lay claim to land with the justification that it was promised to you by your God and that some people who happened to share religious beliefs with you (but nothing else in common) controlled the same promised land in excess of 2000 years ago. That essentially is the "deep historical unique claim". What a load of shit. It's not deep and it's certainly not unique. The most easy example being the various peoples that lived in Nueva Espana. They lost everything and were pretty comprehensively wiped out in ways that make the Holocaust/any other recent genocide pale in comparison. What would happen if some Mayan quack shows up in downtown Mexico City and asks for Mexico to return to Mayan hands, since Quetzalcoatl or whoever promised the land to the Mayans and they lived there not even 700 years ago? He'd be lol'd away.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Surely all people are of equal stature? That's what any religion should profess - if indeed they are rational and outline 'rules' to which you should abide.

For me religion has lost it's way - having attended Church recently to get our wedding bans - I'm shocked at the hyms and the contents within, none of it bears any relation to 'modern life'

Religion I fear was used extensively as a 'fear of consequence' to try and stop people acting like dicks and allow some form of cohesion and people to have ultimate control.

The sad part is - that the world actually does need a moral compass - but none of the mainstream religions really fit anymore - Scientology is a joke best left unmentioned...

I do believe there are more ingredients to the current conflict than just political and religious views - but sadly only time will tell.

The dangerous thing about researching 'History' is that the text that seems to exist, was nearly always written by the 'victors' - so should always be taken with a pinch of salt...

Hopefully - pressure from all other countries will bring a speedy resolution to this conflict - it's 2014 and we as a World have not progressed beyond Medieval ways of resolving conflicts - that's the real travesty here...

[EBH 283]

Surely all people are of equal stature? That's what any religion should profess - if indeed they are rational and outline 'rules' to which you should abide.

For me religion has lost it's way - having attended Church recently to get our wedding bans - I'm shocked at the hyms and the contents within, none of it bears any relation to 'modern life'

Religion I fear was used extensively as a 'fear of consequence' to try and stop people acting like dicks and allow some form of cohesion and people to have ultimate control.

The sad part is - that the world actually does need a moral compass - but none of the mainstream religions really fit anymore - Scientology is a joke best left unmentioned...

It's sad, but I agree with you completely. I come from a staunchly Catholic family and up until recently I was a pretty firm believer in the Church, too. But recent events and taking a more critical look at the Church's actions throughout history have alienated me from it. I don't consider myself a Catholic anymore. The idea that a human's relationship with God must go through an organised and structured body is the main sticking point, for me. I can't imagine that Jesus would have wanted this, nor that he would support the Church in its current state.

I'm still religious though, and I have come to develop an appreciation for Rastafari. It's the only 'religion' (it isn't a religion really, it's a lifestyle and an ideology, it's far more important than determining humanity's place in the universe and our relationship with God) that has no bloodshed on its account. It is the only one that is structured well enough to spread, but loosely knit enough for each individual follower of the movement to hammer out their own personal conception of and relationship with God, and form their own morality like that. It spreads a message of equality, peace and love; and even though some of its dogma is a bit out there (unfortunately, many of those who follow Rastafari are homophobic and the movement is also strongly associated with misogyny), I firmly believe that it comes closest to Jesus' message. It is a shame that Babylonian machinations have seen Rastafari typecast as some sort of extremist, black supremacist, weed smoking cult, because that's not what it's about, at all. In fact, as far as I can recollect, the only thing Rastafari explicitly states with regards to black people is that the descendants of slaves in the Americas should be repatriated to Ethiopia. Equality, in every sense of the word excluding sexuality and sexual preferences, is the very highest principle of the movement and so to accuse it of black supremacy is hugely ignorant.

It doesn't help that a lot of its symbols - the tricolor, the Lion of Judah, etc. - have been absorbed and made more famous by the black supremacist movements in the United States, which gives them a negative reputation.

[Stingray 9,441]

My heart cries more and more ....

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/bombing-gaza-children-gives-me-orgasm-israelis-celebrate-slaughter-facebook

What have we become ....

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

My heart cries more and more ....http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/bombing-gaza-children-gives-me-orgasm-israelis-celebrate-slaughter-facebook

What have we become ....

Shocking. Seemingly brainwashed by israeli corporate media propaganda.

[Muzchap 8,966]

My heart cries more and more ....http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/patrick-strickland/bombing-gaza-children-gives-me-orgasm-israelis-celebrate-slaughter-facebook

What have we become ....

Surely this isn't representative of the vast majority of Israeli's as Hamas is not representative of Palestinians.

It's the voice of vocal minority.

What they need to do is make a DMZ between the two countries and let the radicals go in and fight the old fashioned way and leave the normal law abiding, sensible, innocent people out of it...

Let both sides argue it out there - that's what I would do... Have both countries policing either side of the DMZ - you walk in with just your hands and brainwashed hatred - then see what kind of person walks back out... My bet a 'changed' person...

[Stingray 9,441]

Surely this isn't representative of the vast majority of Israeli's as Hamas is not representative of Palestinians.

It's the voice of vocal minority.

What they need to do is make a DMZ between the two countries and let the radicals go in and fight the old fashioned way and leave the normal law abiding, sensible, innocent people out of it...

Let both sides argue it out there - that's what I would do... Have both countries policing either side of the DMZ - you walk in with just your hands and brainwashed hatred - then see what kind of person walks back out... My bet a 'changed' person...

Muzchap, i like you. But this is happenings as are the plus 600 pictures of people being bombed in a de facto prison. To do nothing is a crime. It would be the same as to do nothing in the Shoah. Its a responsability. You seem to think stuff is pretty ok, but it is nuts. To think you can let them argue it out is the same as say : let the Warschau getto people talk it out with the occupier. Im not even kidding here. Get some background plz, i beg you. Even though i agree this is a minority ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Regarding the religious debate on the previous pages, it's hard for people who don't know Arabic to know what I am talking about, but the text of the Qur'an is written in very old, very difficult Arabic. Someone like me reading it for the first time won't understand half of it. It is also incredibly unclear. The majority of the sentences can be interpreted in several manners (like most religious texts). So it goes without saying that the translations of the interpretation of any verse of the Qur'an can vary...A LOT!

Surely this isn't representative of the vast majority of Israeli's as Hamas is not representative of Palestinians.

It's the voice of vocal minority.

What they need to do is make a DMZ between the two countries and let the radicals go in and fight the old fashioned way and leave the normal law abiding, sensible, innocent people out of it...

Let both sides argue it out there - that's what I would do... Have both countries policing either side of the DMZ - you walk in with just your hands and brainwashed hatred - then see what kind of person walks back out... My bet a 'changed' person...

I'm sorry to say that 66 years of conflict can create quite a lot of extremists on both sides. Let me introduce you to the hottest hang-out in Sderot:

Israel-Gaza conflict: ‘Sderot cinema’ image shows Israelis with popcorn and chairs 'cheering as missiles strike Palestinian targets'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-sderot-cinema-image-shows-israelis-with-popcorn-and-chairs-cheering-as-missiles-strike-palestinian-targets-9602704.html

Humanity is DEAD.

[Dion 2,476]

Hopefully - pressure from all other countries will bring a speedy resolution to this conflict - it's 2014 and we as a World have not progressed beyond Medieval ways of resolving conflicts - that's the real travesty here...

Ideally, the best course of action would be having a neutral unified superior power to resolve conflicts between different countries according to a set of international laws agreed by every nation. It's the same concept as we have inside every country with our courthouses. The state acts as a neutral superior power and is represented by the judge who will solve those disputes with as little bias as possible according to national laws.

Unfortunately we're a long way from that kind of organization. United Nations doesn't even come close to that yet. They're a step in the right direction but as of right now they're a joke at dealing with those kind of conflicts. Long story short, most countries won't accept any decision imposed to them because none will like the idea of losing their indisputable sovereignty in their affairs and will be skeptical about how neutral any decision by the superior organization is. In addition, that organization should have more coercive power than any country individually or else we would see what happens nowadays. UN is against X action but it can't do jack shit, so Y country will do X anyway. All the punishment we have in International Law today is related to economical or political restrictions which is simply not enough for dealing with the utmost difficult situations. Add to that UN is biased as heck because it is controlled by the most powerful countries in the world, more often than not the decisions will go in their benefit, so there is also that.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Ideally, the best course of action would be having a neutral unified superior power to resolve conflicts between different countries according to a set of international laws agreed by every nation. It's the same concept as we have inside every country with our courthouses. The state acts as a neutral superior power and is represented by the judge who will solve those disputes with as little bias as possible according to national laws.

Unfortunately we're a long way from that kind of organization. United Nations doesn't even come close to that yet. They're a step in the right direction but as of right now they're a joke at dealing with those kind of conflicts. Long story short, most countries won't accept any decision imposed to them because none will like the idea of losing their indisputable sovereignty in their affairs and will be skeptical about how neutral any decision by the superior organization is. In addition, that organization should have more coercive power than any country individually or else we would see what happens nowadays. UN is against X action but it can't do jack shit, so Y country will do X anyway. All the punishment we have in International Law today is related to economical or political restrictions which is simply not enough for dealing with the utmost difficult situations. Add to that UN is biased as heck because it is controlled by the most powerful countries in the world, more often than not their decisions will go in their benefit, so there is also that.

The UN is more like a puppet show man. Totally incompetent.

[haranr 485]

Shocking. Seemingly brainwashed by israeli corporate media propaganda.

Happens on the other side as well.

[Dion 2,476]

The UN is more like a puppet show man. Totally incompetent.

You see how difficult it is to accept a power above your national state when even european countries have their struggles within the european union. And have in mind that european countries are very much alike culturally and even economically if you compare their situation to the discrepancy between every nation in the whole world. We're way too far from being able to solve international conflicts in a peaceful and righteous manner. Like Muzchap said, it's like we haven't evolved at all from those medieval times.

[Stingray 9,441]

Happens on the other side as well.

Yes but the shocking occupation plus the sheet amount of killings are not Haran. This is our point...

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

You see how difficult it is to accept a power above your national state when even european countries have their struggles within the european union. And have in mind that european countries are very much alike culturally and even economically if you compare their situation to the discrepancy between every nation in the whole world. We're way too far from being able to solve international conflicts in a peaceful and righteous manner. Like Muzchap said, it's like we haven't evolved at all from those medieval times.

It has nothing really to do with evolving. The greed and power are part of the human trait. What you see is basically what has been going through the world since the existence of man. Only the tools and the means used differ. That is why you see nations rise to be the most powerful and fall. That is why you have a cycle.

[Dion 2,476]

Regarding the religious debate on the previous pages, it's hard for people who don't know Arabic to know what I am talking about, but the text of the Qur'an is written in very old, very difficult Arabic. Someone like me reading it for the first time won't understand half of it. It is also incredibly unclear. The majority of the sentences can be interpreted in several manners (like most religious texts). So it goes without saying that the translations of the interpretation of any verse of the Qur'an can vary...A LOT!

I'm sorry to say that 66 years of conflict can create quite a lot of extremists on both sides. Let me introduce you to the hottest hang-out in Sderot:

Israel-Gaza conflict: ‘Sderot cinema’ image shows Israelis with popcorn and chairs 'cheering as missiles strike Palestinian targets'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-sderot-cinema-image-shows-israelis-with-popcorn-and-chairs-cheering-as-missiles-strike-palestinian-targets-9602704.html

Humanity is DEAD.

You see, that's one of my main problems with pretty much every religion. Speaking as a law student, nothing but problems and injustice can come from following a set of rules that leave margin to a lot of different interpretations.

It has nothing really to do with evolving. The greed and power are part of the human trait. What you see is basically what has been going through the world since the existence of man. Only the tools and the means used differ. That is why you see nations rise to be the most powerful and fall. That is why you have a cycle.

I didn't mean it in evolutionary sense, but in progress sense. Can't it have that meaning in English?