test

Welcome to Talk Chelsea

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Spike

Politics & Stuff

Started by Spike,

6,682 posts in this topic
On 4/15/2017 at 0:37 PM, Spike said:

Hmmm, do I trust a publication about Assad by the 'times of Israel'?

Syria still has chemical weapons says U.S. defense secretary

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, kmk108 said:

Sadly, this doesn't apply to everywhere. In a lot of Eastern European countries, black players (and supporters) are still treated like shit. 

Dpn't knock it.
There are some idiots -Paris train for example- but I really think the football community have found the solution to everyone's satisfaction.
In England the first black player was someone belonging to West Ham as I recall. In a foggy morning they beat us 4-2 at the bridge -despite us going 2-0 ahead early- and he scored one for them (Ossie's relations with the club became bad after that and he moved to Southampton). But there was no chanting against the black player or anything like that.
In Greece it was a midfielder called Inluga in 1985 and the hooligans were chanting against him. But then things changed. I mean if Batista -the Gullit of the poor as he was called- sends your team to the cup winners cup semis, you get the message and you drop the idiotic notions of the past.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Dpn't knock it.
There are some idiots -Paris train for example- but I really think the football community have found the solution to everyone's satisfaction.
In England the first black player was someone belonging to West Ham as I recall. In a foggy morning they beat us 4-2 at the bridge -despite us going 2-0 ahead early- and he scored one for them (Ossie's relations with the club became bad after that and he moved to Southampton). But there was no chanting against the black player or anything like that.
In Greece it was a midfielder called Inluga in 1985 and the hooligans were chanting against him. But then things changed. I mean if Batista -the Gullit of the poor as he was called- sends your team to the cup winners cup semis, you get the message and you drop the idiotic notions of the past.
 

kmk108 is right, we still have a long way to go.

It is still common in Russia, Baltic states and Eastern Europe for black and ethnic players along with fans to be attacked, heckled and parodied as monkeys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

kmk108 is right, we still have a long way to go.

It is still common in Russia, Baltic states and Eastern Europe for black and ethnic players along with fans to be attacked, heckled and parodied as monkeys.

I 've seen it.
But are some of their teams all-white then ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

It is still common in Russia, Baltic states and Eastern Europe for black and ethnic players along with fans to be attacked, heckled and parodied as monkeys.

Nope. If you mean Latvia and Lithuania then maybe, I don't know, but leave Estonia out of it. Footballing community is very very small here, public racists would get their fair treatment in no time by other fans.

cosmicway and Fulham Broadway like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, manpe said:

Nope. If you mean Latvia and Lithuania then maybe, I don't know, but leave Estonia out of it. Footballing community is very very small here, public racists would get their fair treatment in no time by other fans.

Yeah Estonia is definitely the most progressive - however in Riga a mate got loads of grief -''go back home'' etc. That said, you get arseholes everywhere

manpe likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, manpe said:

Nope. If you mean Latvia and Lithuania then maybe, I don't know, but leave Estonia out of it. Footballing community is very very small here, public racists would get their fair treatment in no time by other fans.

Would it really matter though? Why would someone go to the trouble of defending sub-Saharans when the country is nearly 100% white?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Yeah Estonia is definitely the most progressive - however in Riga a mate got loads of grief -''go back home'' etc. That said, you get arseholes everywhere

Yeah assholes are everywhere. I was also talking about football specifically, behaviour like this wouldn't be tolerated in this day. And because there are so few actual match-going spectators, offenders would be easily identified and banned. Generally speaking I can't deny that a lot of people are "racist" here, and by that I don't mean extreme violent loud racists, but mostly quiet prejudiced stereotyping racists. We are shy and keep everything to ourselves, so there is no massive persecution of black people like in Russia or whatever, only the odd dickhead here and there. This type of racism is more prevalent among the Soviet generation for obvious reasons, independence time Euro generation is now growing up and mentalities are shifting. However, this recent immigration floodgate and terrorist actions across the globe aren't helping, people are naturally more scared and hateful towards different kind and not just here, but everywhere. Bottom line is that Estonian racism cannot be compared to what you mean when you refer to Eastern Europe or Russia, totally different attitudes and people.

Fulham Broadway likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Spike said:

Would it really matter though? Why would someone go to the trouble of defending sub-Saharans when the country is nearly 100% white?

I don't understand your question, sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, manpe said:

I don't understand your question, sorry.

Why would Estonians care about racists when there isn't anyone to be racist towards?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, manpe said:

Yeah assholes are everywhere. I was also talking about football specifically, behaviour like this wouldn't be tolerated in this day. And because there are so few actual match-going spectators, offenders would be easily identified and banned. Generally speaking I can't deny that a lot of people are "racist" here, and by that I don't mean extreme violent loud racists, but mostly quiet prejudiced stereotyping racists. We are shy and keep everything to ourselves, so there is no massive persecution of black people like in Russia or whatever, only the odd dickhead here and there. This type of racism is more prevalent among the Soviet generation for obvious reasons, independence time Euro generation is now growing up and mentalities are shifting. However, this recent immigration floodgate and terrorist actions across the globe aren't helping, people are naturally more scared and hateful towards different kind and not just here, but everywhere. Bottom line is that Estonian racism cannot be compared to what you mean when you refer to Eastern Europe or Russia, totally different attitudes and people.

Know what you mean, and the terrorism has heightened peoples fear of ''the other'' everywhere. With football attendance, and I am talking about everywhere, all the inhibitions are dispelled with group mentality and alcohol -so you get homophobic, racist, obscene chants etc - guaranteed there will be some at Wemberlee tomorrow ! To me the authorities go over the top in trying to police this. Like you say , if some arseholes do that in an Estonian crowd, the rest of the crowd normally step in. The same here. The only danger is when you get organised fascists infiltrating football crowds to incite - we had a lot of that in the 80s

 

manpe likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Know what you mean, and the terrorism has heightened peoples fear of ''the other'' everywhere. With football attendance, and I am talking about everywhere, all the inhibitions are dispelled with group mentality and alcohol -so you get homophobic, racist, obscene chants etc - guaranteed there will be some at Wemberlee tomorrow ! To me the authorities go over the top in trying to police this. Like you say , if some arseholes do that in an Estonian crowd, the rest of the crowd normally step in. The same here. The only danger is when you get organised fascists infiltrating football crowds to incite - we had a lot of that in the 80s

 

Were they actual fascists? Like they wanted a totalitarian one-party state with an emphasis on nationalism and military might? I didn't know fascism actually had any sort of movement in England outside of Oswald Mosely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Spike said:

Were they actual fascists? Like they wanted a totalitarian one-party state with an emphasis on nationalism and military might? I didn't know fascism actually had any sort of movement in England outside of Oswald Mosely.

The BNP. Yeah, they were pretty fascist

oxfordblues likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Spike said:

Why would Estonians care about racists when there isn't anyone to be racist towards?

Interesting question. I don't know how to answer that, why would anybody care about racists? Racially motivated criminal actions are rare over here, I think one of the main reasons is because like you said - there is no one to be racist against other than tourists. Talking about football, then there are (or have been) some black players in our clubs. Haven't heard about or witnessed any (serious) incidents. Throwing banana skins and making monkey noises would blow up the media and put pressure on governing bodies to do something about it. Our attendances in premier league games are measured in tens and hundreds, there are no big organized "ultras" groups to make trouble, and because of that solitary trouble-makers can be dealt with quickly without having it escalated into something more dangerous. Anyway, if aggressive racist behaviour is witnessed, people will care. Why? Because for every asshole there are 50 decent people.

Spike likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

The BNP. Yeah, they were pretty fascist

Just curious because most people don't use fascism in the traditional sense anymore. Nothing cracks me up more when people call Hitler a fascist. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Spike said:

Just curious because most people don't use fascism in the traditional sense anymore. Nothing cracks me up more when people call Hitler a fascist. 

Hitler was one.
Apart from his other antics he believed in the "corporate state", the streamlined economy. This is a system in which the state dictates what economic activities are favoured or not favoured. That's not quite the same as making some types of business illegal but some stiff government control is at play. Thus if you are a chemist it's not illegal of course but you can't open a chemist's shop, because the state (the party) gives a limited number of licenses to whomever they like. This system resembles up to a certain point the Stalinist system but it's not quite the same of course, as Stalin says everything belongs to the state and there is no activity other than strictly state activity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spike said:

Would it really matter though? Why would someone go to the trouble of defending sub-Saharans when the country is nearly 100% white?

Perhaps because they see them as human beings ? Maybe they don't like people being discriminated against just because of their race or colour of skin.

11Drogba likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.