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2 minutes ago, Spike said:

And I said that it wasn't the only reason. Geez. I have not said once, that the police shootings haven't been an influence, every post I've noted that it is more complicated than that. Every post, it is more complicated than being simple 'oppressed' and more complicated than being reactionary to the police shootings. You are the one just simple not reading what I'm trying to say.

Of course it is more complex, I didn't state so because it is goddamn obvious! 

The original point I made which you then tried to refute was literally "motivated mainly by police violence".

Not that that it was the only reason. That it was the MAIN MOTIVATION. So, when you argue against that with those quotes I can only assume that you are trying to deny that. 

Also, if you agree that police violence was the main motivation then all the original points I was trying to make about this violence being in retaliation and cannot be equated with the original police violence are all valid. 

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He was alone, mentally breaking and looking for a purpose. He found a purpose in 'avenging' the unjust murders of men in similar positions to him, he could project his own failings, his own shoulder chip onto other tragedies. He is nothing more than a 'glorified' school shooter taking his own personal demons out on what he percieves as the 'school bullies'.

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5 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

Of course it is more complex, I didn't state so because it is goddamn obvious! 

The original point I made which you then tried to refute was literally "motivated mainly by police violence".

Not that that it was the only reason. That it was the MAIN MOTIVATION. So, when you argue against that with those quotes I can only assume that you are trying to deny that. 

Also, if you agree that police violence was the main motivation then all the original points I was trying to make about this violence being in retaliation and cannot be equated with the original police violence are all valid. 

It wasn't the main motivation. It was a simple straw the broke the camel's back. Yeah, I tried to refute your main point because I disagree that it was the main motivation. 

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People, cops and the corporate media will do whatever they can to make out that the people avenging extra-judicial executions by racist police -are 'unstable', 'disturbed'. It fits the agenda. As far as we know it was only the cops that said the Dallas shooter 'wanted to kill white people'. Again this conveniently puts other whites in the crosshairs.

Theres no way they would say it was revenge attacks because the black community have had enough. Yet to all the World, closet racists included, everyone knows this :D

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30 minutes ago, Spike said:

It wasn't the main motivation. It was a simple straw the broke the camel's back. Yeah, I tried to refute your main point because I disagree that it was the main motivation. 

You are disagreeing with what the shooter himself said was his motivation. Now who's assuming from nothing and clutching at straws?! 

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4 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

You are disagreeing with what the shooter himself said was his motivation. Now who's assuming from nothing and clutching at straws?! 

 

18 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

People, cops and the corporate media will do whatever they can to make out that the people avenging extra-judicial executions by racist police -are 'unstable', 'disturbed'. It fits the agenda. As far as we know it was only the cops that said the Dallas shooter 'wanted to kill white people'. Again this conveniently puts other whites in the crosshairs.

Theres no way they would say it was revenge attacks because the black community have had enough. Yet to all the World, closet racists included, everyone knows this :D

And you liked his post and even provided a link

Chief Brown said: “He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people. The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html 

So second hand evidence...clutching at straws

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23 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

People, cops and the corporate media will do whatever they can to make out that the people avenging extra-judicial executions by racist police -are 'unstable', 'disturbed'. It fits the agenda. As far as we know it was only the cops that said the Dallas shooter 'wanted to kill white people'. Again this conveniently puts other whites in the crosshairs.

Theres no way they would say it was revenge attacks because the black community have had enough. Yet to all the World, closet racists included, everyone knows this :D

 

Yes but change won't come by killing police. 

If people want change they need to run riot in the capital. You shut down everything there and I'm sure change will happen fast. 

But of course they don't think like that. They rather kill some police then go after the ones making the rules....

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9 minutes ago, Spike said:

 

And you liked his post and even provided a link

Chief Brown said: “He said he was upset about the recent police shootings. The suspect said he was upset at white people. The suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html 

So second hand evidence...clutching at straws

:lol:

Thanks for proving my point. 

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4 minutes ago, CHOULO19 said:

:lol:

Thanks for proving my point. 

Only if you believe what the police chief says, which you obviously do, why would he lie?

We wouldn't want to question the integrity of the police, would we?

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27 minutes ago, Fernando said:

 

Yes but change won't come by killing police. 

If people want change they need to run riot in the capital. You shut down everything there and I'm sure change will happen fast. 

But of course they don't think like that. They rather kill some police then go after the ones making the rules....

yes mass rioting could prove a point, but its obvious the cop killers want revenge for the continual murder of people of their ethnicity.

Anyone in denial of the fact that these are revenge attacks for decades, centuries of racial abuse, and murder by a white ruling authority is defending racism or a fucking idiot

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6 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

yes mass rioting could prove a point, but its obvious the cop killers want revenge for the continual murder of people of their ethnicity.

Anyone in denial of the fact that these are revenge attacks for decades, centuries of racial abuse, and murder by a white ruling authority is defending racism or a fucking idiot

I'm not diverting blame from white settlers to America (what does it matter to me, I'm Australian anyway) but I feel like there should be a more open dialogue about what a lot of Africans, Arabs and Berbers in particular did during the slave trade days. Capturing villages of people, castrating, forced marching, only to be sold at the markets to the highest bidders, usually Europeans or Arabs. The difference between the Arab and the European is that the Arab slaver would castrate all slaves to prevent reproduction. A lot of white people did horrendous acts, but so did many people of different colour and ethnicity. This isn't even scraping the barrel of white slavery and white owners. Indentured white servants, often Irishmen would be worked to death because they didn't perform as well in the heat as African slaves, and that the 'contract' of an indentured servant was only about 9 years, compared for life with the African slaves. So African slaves were comparatively treated better, but that isn't saying much.

Though I don't feel it would change a lot, I do believe being more open and honest about the past and it's disgusting atrocities will help some people realise that we shouldn't divide ourselves but to work together for the future to make sure the past doesn't repeat itself. I'm not trying to trivialise the plight of African slaves or create a 'who had it worse' competition (which a lot of people will make it to be), I'm just a person that loves history and believe that all of it should be taught not just bits and pieces to suite a particular narrative.

Slavery of all kinds should be taught, as should the concept that America said 'No!' to slavery and ended it. It didn't end racism but America did take a huge step forward, the ending of racism should be an idea that is celebrated in America, not vilified. Many people in the world mainly children are slaves and Americans should be proud that their nation changed itself and rejected slavery after so long of it being the status quo. It should be taught that hundreds of thousands of white Americans fought and died to end slavery, it should be taught that the south didn't fight for slavery but for their way of life. It should be taught that less than 2.0% of white Americans owned slaves. Narratives should be challenged, was the crux of slavery racism? Or was it because certain tribes in Africa were easily taken advantage of and sold? Was it both? Or was it the latter which eventually formed into racism?

But at the same time, Wounded Knee and the plight of the Native American should be discussed, the power of the KKK, the Alabama bombings, but at the same time, MLK's dream of peace and equality.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Spike said:

I'm not diverting blame from white settlers to America (what does it matter to me, I'm Australian anyway) but I feel like there should be a more open dialogue about what a lot of Africans, Arabs and Berbers in particular did during the slave trade days. Capturing villages of people, castrating, forced marching, only to be sold at the markets to the highest bidders, usually Europeans or Arabs. The difference between the Arab and the European is that the Arab slaver would castrate all slaves to prevent reproduction. A lot of white people did horrendous acts, but so did many people of different colour and ethnicity. This isn't even scraping the barrel of white slavery and white owners. Indentured white servants, often Irishmen would be worked to death because they didn't perform as well in the heat as African slaves, and that the 'contract' of an indentured servant was only about 9 years, compared for life with the African slaves. So African slaves were comparatively treated better, but that isn't saying much.

Though I don't feel it would change a lot, I do believe being more open and honest about the past and it's disgusting atrocities will help some people realise that we shouldn't divide ourselves but to work together for the future to make sure the past doesn't repeat itself. I'm not trying to trivialise the plight of African slaves or create a 'who had it worse' competition (which a lot of people will make it to be), I'm just a person that loves history and believe that all of it should be taught not just bits and pieces to suite a particular narrative.

Slavery of all kinds should be taught, as should the concept that America said 'No!' to slavery and ended it. It didn't end racism but America did take a huge step forward, the ending of racism should be an idea that is celebrated in America, not vilified. Many people in the world mainly children are slaves and Americans should be proud that their nation changed itself and rejected slavery after so long of it being the status quo. It should be taught that hundreds of thousands of white Americans fought and died to end slavery, it should be taught that the south didn't fight for slavery but for their way of life. It should be taught that less than 2.0% of white Americans owned slaves. Narratives should be challenged, was the crux of slavery racism? Or was it because certain tribes in Africa were easily taken advantage of and sold? Was it both? Or was it the latter which eventually formed into racism?

But at the same time, Wounded Knee and the plight of the Native American should be discussed, the power of the KKK, the Alabama bombings, but at the same time, MLK's dream of peace and equality.

 

 

 

I think history is written by people mostly who have an agenda, but we are where we are now, and if we want to stop the current situation escalating - there needs to be soul searching, an acknowledgement that there is a sea change required in policing, and an admission that there is institutionalised racism within the US's biggest gang. (Un)fortunately for them now, the chances are that their actions on the streets are filmed now without exception, and the footage is viral within minutes.

Any denial or head burying in the sand by politicians, police chiefs and Governors will just exacerbate an already inflamed situation and they will reap what they sow. Lets hope lessons are quickly being learned, and commanders in squad rooms are instructing officers to not be gung ho, to not apprehend on the flimsiest of premise, and not shoot face down restrained suspects. Things will probably get worse before better unfortunately.

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2 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

I think history is written by people mostly who have an agenda, but we are where we are now, and if we want to stop the current situation escalating - there needs to be soul searching, an acknowledgement that there is a sea change required in policing, and an admission that there is institutionalised racism within the US's biggest gang. (Un)fortunately for them now, the chances are that their actions on the streets are filmed now without exception, and the footage is viral within minutes.

Any denial or head burying in the sand by politicians, police chiefs and Governors will just exacerbate an already inflamed situation and they will reap what they sow. Lets hope lessons are quickly being learned, and commanders in squad rooms are instructing officers to not be gung ho, to not apprehend on the flimsiest of premise, and not shoot face down restrained suspects. Things will probably get worse before better unfortunately.

Here are some videos, that you may or may not agree with that raise some interesting points. Some are horrifying points, some challenge the media's agenda but at the core of it they are trying to unfold the situation America is in and are trying to examine it far more deeply than a shallow news report would sell you.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, positivefootball said:

Cant wait for this multicultural nightmare to end.

Incompatible cultures are the issue. I'm sure there wouldn't be too much dissident from a couple of Spaniards living in France, for instance. Cultures are exactly the same as magnets, some are attracted some repel.

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2 hours ago, Spike said:

He was alone, mentally breaking and looking for a purpose. He found a purpose in 'avenging' the unjust murders of men in similar positions to him, he could project his own failings, his own shoulder chip onto other tragedies. He is nothing more than a 'glorified' school shooter taking his own personal demons out on what he percieves as the 'school bullies'.

Indeed.

He most certainly was a person with a weak mentality and personality. A weak man that was brainwashed by the media which are incessantly saying that all the problems of the black community are down to white racism and more specifically down to white cop violence — something which is evidently a lie but that has became a reality because people have repeated it over and over again and because it is what is aired on the news (by the way, this is basic social engineering)1. And because of that, that poor lost soul found a cause to his (mental) problems — the white cops — and found a solution to end those problems — to kill the said white cops.

Or maybe...

He was a weak man that was used by a shady organisation(s)2 in order to heat up the situation and to widen the rift between people. On the one hand, it encourages "BLM" activists to be more violent against the policemen and on the other hand, it leads the cops (and more generally those who sympathise with the police) to be more resentful towards young black men (especially those who carry guns and those who instinctively confront the police when they are stop by them).

Any way...

Whether the manipulation was passive or active — direct or indirect — the end result is the same. That individual was led to pour oil upon the fire. This can only lead to more tension and more grudge between two parts of the population. Meanwhile, the monopolistic class drinks its champagne and increases its wealth and its power over the non-monopolistic class. The latter, in the end, only deserves its living conditions — the "oppressed",  in their holy ignorance, are only able to bark to themselves. What a pathetic mass.

 

1 The Alton Sterling case is the perfect example of how the media can spin reality. They can create a tragic situation from what is actually a banal situation ; throughout history, soldiers/policemen have always killed weak people, not because they are this or that, but because this is easy and because there is no repercussion (and I mean that in the case where we assume that those police officers killed Sterling for personal reasons, which is not necessarily the case) — I mean, you could not find a more trivial story. They can create a harmless and lovely Innocent from what is basically a small time criminal.

2 For instance, Soros and the C.I.A. (to name the most renown) have proven many times in the past their sheer talent to manipulate and arm dangerous people in order to destabilize countries and populations.

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20 minutes ago, Spike said:

Incompatible cultures are the issue. I'm sure there wouldn't be too much dissident from a couple of Spaniards living in France, for instance. Cultures are exactly the same as magnets, some are attracted some repel.

Of course no one cares if a small amount of Europeans immigrate to another European country. But when parts of the country look like a mix of Syria, Irak, Pakistan and Nigeria, you know something bad will happen. A multicultural nightmare.

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