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Spike

Politics & Stuff

Started by Spike,

6,883 posts in this topic

Do you think sunnis and other muslims will attack or nullify them ? Is this preferable to US bombing ?Washington already allegedly opening up diologue with shia Iran along the lines of "my enemies enemy is my friend."

I think ISIS are temporary by force of human nature. It's not a matter of religion or culture or civilization. You only need to be human to reject them. Hence they are doomed to be rejected like a cancerous cell from their birth.

The only question is when will they start to recede. That, unfortunately, is a political question. Because, let's be honest, if everyone wanted them gone, they will be gone. They are currently a political card used to put pressure on the opponents by both sides. A very wild and violent political pressure card but still only a tool.

I suspect the beginning of their end to be as part of a regional political agreement from Iran to Syria to Iraq to Lebanon even to Palestine. Because only a KSA-Iran agreement (and by KSA I mean USA) can end ISIS. But that is going to be a very slow procedure. I'm talking months, maybe even years.

And slightly off the political radar, people will continue to die by the thousands, unfortunately.

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In the UK and other western countries we have privileged, pampered so called 'Royal families'. These groups descendants justified their rule and slaughter of all competitors in that they were 'ordained by God'. People say they are now an anachronism, a quaint legacy. The truth is the 'Crown' wields immense power. People in the uk are not legally citizens, but 'subjects'. There are 1500-2000 unelected senior civil servants, answering directly to 'the Crown', who remain in their positions of power regardless of which party is voted in, and determine uk policy. The government of the day, which when elected has to ask the queen to form a government, are generally a mouthpiece for the civil servants loyal to 'the crown' policies.

Scary....except not true. Let's not pretend that anything you've uttered there actually has any basis in reality. The Crown does not 'wield immense power' for fuck's sake. :D

In fact your whole post is very Ben Elton circa-1987 in that it's tremendously right-on (with all due respect) but doesn't really deal with things as they exist in a real way. Yes the British Empire did some horrible things and we have a hand in the state of the Middle East, but handwringing about white guilt doesn't actually address what we should do now.

I like you as a poster and you seem a sound bloke but I just think that we've moved beyond this type of thinking and actually have to look at how we deal with the issues as they exist in reality, not in a classroom or textbook.

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Scary....except not true. Let's not pretend that anything you've uttered there actually has any basis in reality. The Crown does not 'wield immense power' for fuck's sake. :D

In fact your whole post is very Ben Elton circa-1987 in that it's tremendously right-on (with all due respect) but doesn't really deal with things as they exist in a real way. Yes the British Empire did some horrible things and we have a hand in the state of the Middle East, but handwringing about white guilt doesn't actually address what we should do now.

I like you as a poster and you seem a sound bloke but I just think that we've moved beyond this type of thinking and actually have to look at how we deal with the issues as they exist in reality, not in a classroom or textbook.

Haha Ben Elton nice one. I like you as a poster too, even though politically you sound like Bernard Manning circa 1985. There is plenty of evidence the Crown is very powerful in British politics, not the 'Crown' as in the Queen as I am sure you realise, but as an organisational body.

Quite disingeneous to dismiss classrooms and textbooks, and I know its cool, but I did study politics for four years, and like to think the professors were not lying.

The Crown, -one example, two MPs, one tory and one Labour, Geoffrey Dickens and Tony Benn (to give it balance) questioned the chief whips as to why they were not told they had sworn oaths to the Crown. They were told that the oaths didnt have to be sworn by them, but were 'administered' to them. They have no choice. I'll leave you to look up the rest.

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At least theres a ceasefire of sorts now -even though Gaza is still in effect a prison camp.

Back to Iraq, -Bombing Iraq, as retired Air Force lieutenant colonel William Astore indicates, '' has become a national pastime.

It looks like Washington has finally created the perfect machine for the weapons industry.

Think of it this way: first Washington provides the Iraqi military with training and massive infusions of military equipment to the tune of $25 billion. Next that military, faced with its first serious opposition, the militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), numbering in the thousands against security forces in the hundreds of thousands, collapses. In June, two full divisions, 30,000 Iraqi troops, flee the city of Mosul, abandoning their posts in the face of the advance of ISIS fighters. In all, four divisions of the country’s 14-division army disintegrate throughout the north. Left behind is a massive trove of U.S.-supplied weaponry, including 1,500 Humvees, 52 U.S.-made M198 howitzers, tanks, trucks, rifles, and ammunition.

ISIS militants, who seem remarkably capable of operating such equipment without an American trainer or adviser in sight, then turn some of that weaponry (as well as weapons captured from the Syrian military) on U.S.-backed forces, including, in the north, Kurdish pesh merga militias. To save its Kurdish allies from disaster, the Obama administration then sends in the U.S. Air Force (both fighter-bombers and Predator drones) in close support of the beleaguered Kurdish forces. Doing what air power seems most capable of, the planes begin destroying the armored vehicles and artillery pieces ISIS has brought to bear in Kurdish areas. In other words, U.S. air power is called in to take out U.S. military equipment (and anyone manning it).

To complete the circle, both the Iraqis defending Baghdad and the Kurds now desperately need new weaponry, and Washington is already starting to supply it in the north and soon undoubtedly in the south as well. Can there be any question that this is a win-win situation for the American arms industry and the military-industrial complex? It gives new meaning to American bombing campaigns that, since 1991, have proven to be disastrous regional destabilizers. Think of this as an innovative profit center for American industry and a jobs-creation exercise of the first order: we provide the weapons, we destroy them, then we provide more''. but its a;so double bubble for the US because they ask Iraq to also pay for the weapons.

Washington has also put at least $50 billion in weaponry and training into Afghanistan’s security forces. So the future is bright.

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Haha Ben Elton nice one. I like you as a poster too, even though politically you sound like Bernard Manning circa 1985. There is plenty of evidence the Crown is very powerful in British politics, not the 'Crown' as in the Queen as I am sure you realise, but as an organisational body.

I'm actually fairly liberal on most subjects from women's rights to drug laws to gay rights and free speech. But I'm sure that the Manning line was just a throwaway one that you didn't put much thought into and couldn't back up if I challenged you so I won't take it too personally.

As for the crown having influence, I think you're grossly overstating it. Institutions like that simply don't have the power they once did.

Quite disingeneous to dismiss classrooms and textbooks, and I know its cool, but I did study politics for four years, and like to think the professors were not lying.

Classrooms and textbooks are great, but should be taken in context. I'm sure your professors weren't lying but I guarantee they certainly weren't without bias and any source should be critically analysed.

I think some of your posts are very 'right-on' but sound utterly regurgitated and don't actually have much in terms of opinion or originality about them. That probably sounds a bit more critical then I meant it to but there's a lot of fluff to your posts. You clearly have an agenda against arms companies and see conspiracies in them, but I'd really like a straight answer to what you actually think about Islam.

I've been quite open about my views on it (and other religions) which has seen me labelled as Islamaphobic and 'Manning-esque', but what do you truly think about it?

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At least theres a ceasefire of sorts now -even though Gaza is still in effect a prison camp.

Back to Iraq, -Bombing Iraq, as retired Air Force lieutenant colonel William Astore indicates, '' has become a national pastime.

It looks like Washington has finally created the perfect machine for the weapons industry.

Think of it this way: first Washington provides the Iraqi military with training and massive infusions of military equipment to the tune of $25 billion. Next that military, faced with its first serious opposition, the militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), numbering in the thousands against security forces in the hundreds of thousands, collapses. In June, two full divisions, 30,000 Iraqi troops, flee the city of Mosul, abandoning their posts in the face of the advance of ISIS fighters. In all, four divisions of the country’s 14-division army disintegrate throughout the north. Left behind is a massive trove of U.S.-supplied weaponry, including 1,500 Humvees, 52 U.S.-made M198 howitzers, tanks, trucks, rifles, and ammunition.

ISIS militants, who seem remarkably capable of operating such equipment without an American trainer or adviser in sight, then turn some of that weaponry (as well as weapons captured from the Syrian military) on U.S.-backed forces, including, in the north, Kurdish pesh merga militias. To save its Kurdish allies from disaster, the Obama administration then sends in the U.S. Air Force (both fighter-bombers and Predator drones) in close support of the beleaguered Kurdish forces. Doing what air power seems most capable of, the planes begin destroying the armored vehicles and artillery pieces ISIS has brought to bear in Kurdish areas. In other words, U.S. air power is called in to take out U.S. military equipment (and anyone manning it).

To complete the circle, both the Iraqis defending Baghdad and the Kurds now desperately need new weaponry, and Washington is already starting to supply it in the north and soon undoubtedly in the south as well. Can there be any question that this is a win-win situation for the American arms industry and the military-industrial complex? It gives new meaning to American bombing campaigns that, since 1991, have proven to be disastrous regional destabilizers. Think of this as an innovative profit center for American industry and a jobs-creation exercise of the first order: we provide the weapons, we destroy them, then we provide more''. but its a;so double bubble for the US because they ask Iraq to also pay for the weapons.

Washington has also put at least $50 billion in weaponry and training into Afghanistan’s security forces. So the future is bright.

So you have a problem with individuals or corporations who use political machinations to exploit or harm the masses for their own personal gain by co-opting natural/national resources for personal gain?

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I'm actually fairly liberal on most subjects from women's rights to drug laws to gay rights and free speech. But I'm sure that the Manning line was just a throwaway one that you didn't put much thought into and couldn't back up if I challenged you so I won't take it too personally.

As for the crown having influence, I think you're grossly overstating it. Institutions like that simply don't have the power they once did.

Classrooms and textbooks are great, but should be taken in context. I'm sure your professors weren't lying but I guarantee they certainly weren't without bias and any source should be critically analysed.

I think some of your posts are very 'right-on' but sound utterly regurgitated and don't actually have much in terms of opinion or originality about them. That probably sounds a bit more critical then I meant it to but there's a lot of fluff to your posts. You clearly have an agenda against arms companies and see conspiracies in them, but I'd really like a straight answer to what you actually think about Islam.

I've been quite open about my views on it (and other religions) which has seen me labelled as Islamaphobic and 'Manning-esque', but what do you truly think about it?

Islam and all religions I have a problem with but not people who are believers. Maybe we should open a religion thread, but it would probably be closed within an hour :D

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Islam and all religions I have a problem with but not people who are believers. Maybe we should open a religion thread, but it would probably be closed within an hour :D

That's like saying you have a problem with Liverpool FC but not the supporters - believers give the religion life. Without it it's just a collection of words and ideas floating in the ether.

Personally, I think it's a cop-out.

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That's like saying you have a problem with Liverpool FC but not the supporters - believers give the religion life. Without it it's just a collection of words and ideas floating in the ether.

Personally, I think it's a cop-out.

oooh youre a harsh man, Well I didnt mean to 'cop out'.

Religion is fine and I have met beautiful Christians, and Muslims, but when they are twisted to fit an agenda , like some anti-Islam people do to fit their barely hidden racism, its wrong.

I dont beleive in any Gods period. Do you ? Dont cop- out now.

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oooh youre a harsh man, Well I didnt mean to 'cop out'.

Religion is fine and I have met beautiful Christians, and Muslims, but when they are twisted to fit an agenda , like some anti-Islam people do to fit their barely hidden racism, its wrong.

I dont beleive in any Gods period. Do you ? Dont cop- out now.

Nope.

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Rotherham is the direct responsibility of the British version of Kieran on here. The dogmatic bourgeoisie left.

There was a labour councillor on R5 this morning, and he said every time someone at commitee meetings brought up the question of Asians grooming children, which was widespread knowledge, they were booed and hissed.

Apparently the Asian vote was wotrth 25 % to Labour in Rotheram and Bradford West.

Also said the cops regarded the girls as slags or 'wog meat'. These were children FFS

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At least theres a ceasefire of sorts now -even though Gaza is still in effect a prison camp.

Back to Iraq, -Bombing Iraq, as retired Air Force lieutenant colonel William Astore indicates, '' has become a national pastime.

It looks like Washington has finally created the perfect machine for the weapons industry.

Think of it this way: first Washington provides the Iraqi military with training and massive infusions of military equipment to the tune of $25 billion. Next that military, faced with its first serious opposition, the militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), numbering in the thousands against security forces in the hundreds of thousands, collapses. In June, two full divisions, 30,000 Iraqi troops, flee the city of Mosul, abandoning their posts in the face of the advance of ISIS fighters. In all, four divisions of the countrys 14-division army disintegrate throughout the north. Left behind is a massive trove of U.S.-supplied weaponry, including 1,500 Humvees, 52 U.S.-made M198 howitzers, tanks, trucks, rifles, and ammunition.

ISIS militants, who seem remarkably capable of operating such equipment without an American trainer or adviser in sight, then turn some of that weaponry (as well as weapons captured from the Syrian military) on U.S.-backed forces, including, in the north, Kurdish pesh merga militias. To save its Kurdish allies from disaster, the Obama administration then sends in the U.S. Air Force (both fighter-bombers and Predator drones) in close support of the beleaguered Kurdish forces. Doing what air power seems most capable of, the planes begin destroying the armored vehicles and artillery pieces ISIS has brought to bear in Kurdish areas. In other words, U.S. air power is called in to take out U.S. military equipment (and anyone manning it).

To complete the circle, both the Iraqis defending Baghdad and the Kurds now desperately need new weaponry, and Washington is already starting to supply it in the north and soon undoubtedly in the south as well. Can there be any question that this is a win-win situation for the American arms industry and the military-industrial complex? It gives new meaning to American bombing campaigns that, since 1991, have proven to be disastrous regional destabilizers. Think of this as an innovative profit center for American industry and a jobs-creation exercise of the first order: we provide the weapons, we destroy them, then we provide more''. but its a;so double bubble for the US because they ask Iraq to also pay for the weapons.

Washington has also put at least $50 billion in weaponry and training into Afghanistans security forces. So the future is bright.

Fantastic post. I've been telling my friends this since last year but you constructed it beautifully :clap:
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There was a labour councillor on R5 this morning, and he said every time someone at commitee meetings brought up the question of Asians grooming children, which was widespread knowledge, they were booed and hissed.

Apparently the Asian vote was wotrth 25 % to Labour in Rotheram and Bradford West.

Also said the cops regarded the girls as slags or 'wog meat'. These were children FFS

Terrible stomach churning stuff but I just know, nobody will be held accountable. Labour will return their mp and have a new crime commissioner elected if Shaun Wright resigns. No police or Councillors will be punished.

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Terrible stomach churning stuff but I just know, nobody will be held accountable. Labour will return their mp and have a new crime commissioner elected if Shaun Wright resigns. No police or Councillors will be punished.

Sadly youre probably right. Its like this Elm Guest house child abuse, no lets call it child rape, because thats what it is. At Elm Guest house you had MPs, judges, MI5 agents, Top police officers, Pop stars, and....the head of Children Social Services attending where young boys were buggered. No wonder its easy for them to cover it up.

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Hi Everyone I am just wanting to make a suggestion and nothing more. I just wanted to see if what response I would get.

I want to know if I move this those here who like posting here and actually having a open and intense and really truthful discussion and being open and talking about politics and all those things that are involved in that genre.

I want or need those who want to or need a place we can talk about this topic thread in a way more open and intense discussion and move the talks to my page thread on my wordpress blog there and have a discussion in the comments section below the page.

There will be no tight restrictions or many limitations to how or what is talked about or posted about and like there is here on forum.talkchelsea because this is a sports forum with restrictions.

The-Global-International-Worldwide-Governments-and-Politics-Page

http://kevinashburner.wordpress.com/the-global-international-worldwide-governments-and-politics-page/

kevinashburner.wordpress.com/the-global-international-worldwide-governments-and-politics-page/

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