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Tobey Gibson

loaned out Ruben Loftus-Cheek

Started by Tobey Gibson,

1,996 posts in this topic
2 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Bad news keep coming at Chelsea these days.

LOL At least its news eh

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You can't tell me that the likes of RLC and Van Ginkel could have been any worse this season than Bakayoko and Drinkwater.

If we had shown a bit of faith in using some of the players already on our books, we could have used last summer's transfer budget on, say, 3 top players rather than it being spread over half a dozen.

If we had midfielders that were both good enough and stayed fit this season it could have been so different. It seemed early on that Conte wanted to move the team towards a 3-5-2 formation. It worked perfectly against Atletico and would have given us a different option to use rather than become predictable and one dimensional. This just has not been possible this season when we've only really had Fabregas and Kante fit throughout the season.

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You can't tell me that the likes of RLC and Van Ginkel could have been any worse this season than Bakayoko and Drinkwater.
If we had shown a bit of faith in using some of the players already on our books, we could have used last summer's transfer budget on, say, 3 top players rather than it being spread over half a dozen.
If we had midfielders that were both good enough and stayed fit this season it could have been so different. It seemed early on that Conte wanted to move the team towards a 3-5-2 formation. It worked perfectly against Atletico and would have given us a different option to use rather than become predictable and one dimensional. This just has not been possible this season when we've only really had Fabregas and Kante fit throughout the season.
I'd rate Pasalic above all of them and he probably still won't get a look in. Around 2 whole squad out on loan with no first team action in sight.

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47 minutes ago, LAM09 said:
1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:
You can't tell me that the likes of RLC and Van Ginkel could have been any worse this season than Bakayoko and Drinkwater.
If we had shown a bit of faith in using some of the players already on our books, we could have used last summer's transfer budget on, say, 3 top players rather than it being spread over half a dozen.
If we had midfielders that were both good enough and stayed fit this season it could have been so different. It seemed early on that Conte wanted to move the team towards a 3-5-2 formation. It worked perfectly against Atletico and would have given us a different option to use rather than become predictable and one dimensional. This just has not been possible this season when we've only really had Fabregas and Kante fit throughout the season.

I'd rate Pasalic above all of them and he probably still won't get a look in. Around 2 whole squad out on loan with no first team action in sight.

I would love to see a manager come in and tap into this pool. There has to be 4-5 players either on loan or within our current youth set up who can be integrated into the first team squad. They don't need to be coming in and being expected to start the majority of games but need to be trusted to come in and do a job when called upon and given enough games to flourish and develop. I think back to the Spurs game this season where Conte put faith in playing Christensen. That set him up then for the rest of the season and he has been trusted ever since. We need to be bringing in more like this.

That would allow us to cull a number of players from our current squad to change the style, formation, etc to suit a new manager, and allow us to concentrate this summer's budget on 3-4 signings which will significantly improve our starting XI.

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13 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I would love to see a manager come in and tap into this pool. There has to be 4-5 players either on loan or within our current youth set up who can be integrated into the first team squad. They don't need to be coming in and being expected to start the majority of games but need to be trusted to come in and do a job when called upon and given enough games to flourish and develop. I think back to the Spurs game this season where Conte put faith in playing Christensen. That set him up then for the rest of the season and he has been trusted ever since. We need to be bringing in more like this.

That would allow us to cull a number of players from our current squad to change the style, formation, etc to suit a new manager, and allow us to concentrate this summer's budget on 3-4 signings which will significantly improve our starting XI.

The youth/loanee should be at the front of the que (in my opinion) is Mason Mount, he is basically another chance at KDB.

CHO and Amps are still kids so i'm happy to bide my time with them, but Mount will be turning 20 next season and he is already proven in the Europa so we should play him in that and the league cup, then (if he performs) start giving him league appearances.

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

The youth/loanee should be at the front of the que (in my opinion) is Mason Mount, he is basically another chance at KDB.

CHO and Amps are still kids so i'm happy to bide my time with them, but Mount will be turning 20 next season and he is already proven in the Europa so we should play him in that and the league cup, then (if he performs) start giving him league appearances.

Agree, I've seen some of Mount and he looks a very good player (although won't expect us to win many headers in the middle of the park with him and Kante!)

Really difficult with Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu. i think they're both good enough already to be playing week in week out at the top end of the Championship and potentially even bottom half of the Premiership. Do they go out next season and get a full season of game time before coming back far more polished? Or do we go down the same route for them - cup games, Europa, etc gaining experience and hopefully impressing enough to force into the league team? 

As I pointed out earlier the biggest thing is to have a manager strong willed and brave enough to give these lads chances in big games if they are the best option available. Rather than shoe-horning a player into a different position because they are more experienced (e.g. playing Luiz in midfield instead of Mount).

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I would love to see a manager come in and tap into this pool. There has to be 4-5 players either on loan or within our current youth set up who can be integrated into the first team squad. They don't need to be coming in and being expected to start the majority of games but need to be trusted to come in and do a job when called upon and given enough games to flourish and develop. I think back to the Spurs game this season where Conte put faith in playing Christensen. That set him up then for the rest of the season and he has been trusted ever since. We need to be bringing in more like this.
That would allow us to cull a number of players from our current squad to change the style, formation, etc to suit a new manager, and allow us to concentrate this summer's budget on 3-4 signings which will significantly improve our starting XI.
So do I. Hudson-Odoi should be getting considerable game time with the options ahead underperforming in recent weeks. No other way for youth to impress.

However, it's probably wishful thinking considering Guardiola has given youth the least amount of playing time amongst the biggest sides and it was supposedly one of his plus points.


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49 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

So do I. Hudson-Odoi should be getting considerable game time with the options ahead underperforming in recent weeks. No other way for youth to impress.

However, it's probably wishful thinking considering Guardiola has given youth the least amount of playing time amongst the biggest sides and it was supposedly one of his plus points.

 

Is that because of the demands of Man City or Guardiola? 

Barcelona are going the way of buying made players instead of using La Masia. Tottenham is probably the prime of example of how far youth can take you.

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1 hour ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Agree, I've seen some of Mount and he looks a very good player (although won't expect us to win many headers in the middle of the park with him and Kante!)

Really difficult with Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu. i think they're both good enough already to be playing week in week out at the top end of the Championship and potentially even bottom half of the Premiership. Do they go out next season and get a full season of game time before coming back far more polished? Or do we go down the same route for them - cup games, Europa, etc gaining experience and hopefully impressing enough to force into the league team? 

As I pointed out earlier the biggest thing is to have a manager strong willed and brave enough to give these lads chances in big games if they are the best option available. Rather than shoe-horning a player into a different position because they are more experienced (e.g. playing Luiz in midfield instead of Mount).

There can be ways round the lack of height tactically. As far as set pieces go Courtois is so good at coming out to collect there's not an urgent need for lots of height, and if we stick to 3atb then the tallest defender can drift into midfield when we are anticipating an ariel duel in the centre. As much as you have a point with CHO and Ampadu, at 17 there isn't any rush or need to send them out on loan or give them serious minutes, i'd happily see progress on their apps this season (about 10-15 each) while they carry on enjoying themselves smashing all before them in the youth cups (which will help further develop a winning mentality). The season after next is when big decisions will need to be made with those two.

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1 hour ago, -Kaplan- said:

Is that because of the demands of Man City or Guardiola? 

Barcelona are going the way of buying made players instead of using La Masia. Tottenham is probably the prime of example of how far youth can take you.

Both. City are strolling to the title but hardly any changes have/will be made.

Barcelona were able to live off a fine line of players, which had to end at some point. Very few clubs can afford to filled youngsters on a regular basis or have the desire too.

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5 hours ago, LAM09 said:

So do I. Hudson-Odoi should be getting considerable game time with the options ahead underperforming in recent weeks. No other way for youth to impress.

However, it's probably wishful thinking considering Guardiola has given youth the least amount of playing time amongst the biggest sides and it was supposedly one of his plus points.

 

League minutes played by under-23 players this season:

9,254 • Manchester City
8,489 • Tottenham
5,957 • Arsenal
5,370 • Manchester United 
5,308 • Liverpool
4,115 • Chelsea

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League minutes played by under-23 players this season:

9,254 • Manchester City

8,489 • Tottenham

5,957 • Arsenal

5,370 • Manchester United 

5,308 • Liverpool

4,115 • Chelsea

I was talking about graduates (only offered 46 mins) & not "youth" that cost £35-50m a pop.

 

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8 hours ago, LAM09 said:

I was talking about graduates (only offered 46 mins) & not "youth" that cost £35-50m a pop. emoji849.png

 

Yeah that stat has been making the rounds, but the likes of Pogba also count as a ‘graduate ‘, or Lingard who is 25, important to see the context behind stats. City’s only academy players this season in their squad this season were two 17 year olds. Not only that but that stat only counts league matches, Pep for instance has given more game time to Foden and Diaz over all competitions than Conte has to CHO. 

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15 hours ago, LAM09 said:

Both. City are strolling to the title but hardly any changes have/will be made.

Barcelona were able to live off a fine line of players, which had to end at some point. Very few clubs can afford to filled youngsters on a regular basis or have the desire too.

So then there is no discussion to be had. Top tier football requires minimal youth integration. 

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Yeah that stat has been making the rounds, but the likes of Pogba also count as a ‘graduate ‘, or Lingard who is 25, important to see the context behind stats. City’s only academy players this season in their squad this season were two 17 year olds. Not only that but that stat only counts league matches, Pep for instance has given more game time to Foden and Diaz over all competitions than Conte has to CHO. 


Everyone is waxing lyrical about their league triumph, so that's were it really matters.
So then there is no discussion to be had. Top tier football requires minimal youth integration. 
Who said there was. Just pointed at the fact Pep was fortunate at Barca and hasn't give youth much of a chance elsewhere.

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