Lucas Piazón

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

what are u talking about? we all know how rambo, bert and azpi have worked on the wings. plus y would we want to play them in cup matches when we have piazon.

our cup team would seem something like

cech, azpi, cahill, iva, bert;rambo, oscar (in the pivot hoping lamps and mikel are the no.1 pair); marin,?,?;torres. tell me who the ? marks are considering mata, hazard get injured and we have to play moses every match along with oscar.

i am talking about giving most of these guys a break from football for 2 days. plus tell play how much would an 18 year old develop in a 6 month loan deal. sometimes u need to do something for the team instead of one particular player.

Chelsea need to give younger players more of a chance, but that's younger players who have gone on loan and had some success. Players are not ever going to come into the first team from the youth team and get regular playing time. And as for Bertrand and Azpilicueta, on the wings, they are purely cover in case of injury but I doubt they will play there because we have six or seven players who can play attacking midfield. Marin has barely played and he's only our fifth attacking midfielder. We're also likely to add a midfielder or two in the transfer period either through a transfer or through recalling a player.

You're approaching it backwards. Cup games are to get the players who don't get a lot of time some time. You need depth because people get hurt, but some people don't get hurt and the depth at that position gets very little playing time so you have to play them some. You don't keep someone on the team in order to play them in cup games. What does 6 months of loans do? First of all, Piazon is going to go on loan next year anyway, so it could easily be a 1.5 year loan. Second of all, look at what the loan deals have done for McEachran, Lukaku and KDB. Young players need to play regularly. Piazon has played in 3 matches in his time with Chelsea. If he stays, he'll get into what, maybe another 5 and a couple those would likely be late substitutions. If he went to the right place, he could start 15-20 matches. Loaning him out would be for the benefit of the club and the player.

[didierforever 7,349]

Chelsea need to give younger players more of a chance, but that's younger players who have gone on loan and had some success. Players are not ever going to come into the first team from the youth team and get regular playing time. And as for Bertrand and Azpilicueta, on the wings, they are purely cover in case of injury but I doubt they will play there because we have six or seven players who can play attacking midfield. Marin has barely played and he's only our fifth attacking midfielder. We're also likely to add a midfielder or two in the transfer period either through a transfer or through recalling a player.

You're approaching it backwards. Cup games are to get the players who don't get a lot of time some time. You need depth because people get hurt, but some people don't get hurt and the depth at that position gets very little playing time so you have to play them some. You don't keep someone on the team in order to play them in cup games. What does 6 months of loans do? First of all, Piazon is going to go on loan next year anyway, so it could easily be a 1.5 year loan. Second of all, look at what the loan deals have done for McEachran, Lukaku and KDB. Young players need to play regularly. Piazon has played in 3 matches in his time with Chelsea. If he stays, he'll get into what, maybe another 5 and a couple those would likely be late substitutions. If he went to the right place, he could start 15-20 matches. Loaning him out would be for the benefit of the club and the player.

first of all we are not buying 2 midfielders at max its going to be 1. secondly lucas piazon has been somewhere near the fringes since the last year. so if we had to loan him we already would have. if we can loan mceachran, chalobah and the gang then we could easily have got some1 intersted for this lad too. but we dint. and tht has to be some for some reason. DONT FORGET PIAZON PLAYS IN OUR UNDER-21 SQUAD TOO. plus y is it that youngsters will develop only on aloan spell and not with our own team?

and as i have said it before that i dont want him to go on a loan this winter not in the summer.

[Leif 6,006]

plus y is it that youngsters will develop only on aloan spell and not with our own team?

Because they get to play every week at other teams......

Chalobah has 16 league appearances this season while McEachran has 22....would they have got those numbers if they stayed with us? No. So how would they develop? You don't just magically unlock your potential in training, regardless how many top players are around you.

Kalas has over 40 league appearances for Vitesse, De Bruyne nearly 20 for Werder Bremen, Lukaku 16 for West Brom and van Aanholt 20 for Vitesse.

Loans are essential for a top team.

[didierforever 7,349]

Because they get to play every week at other teams......

Chalobah has 16 league appearances this season while McEachran has 22....would they have got those numbers if they stayed with us? No. So how would they develop? You don't just magically unlock your potential in training, regardless how many top players are around you.

Kalas has over 40 league appearances for Vitesse, De Bruyne nearly 20 for Werder Bremen, Lukaku 16 for West Brom and van Aanholt 20 for Vitesse.

Loans are essential for a top team.

sure. we are loaning him and tell me the squad then please. the main point of mine is OUR SQUAD STRENGTH. which is already weak and would only become weaker. we are not goin to buy any wingers/cam in the winter. if we do it will be stupid after acquiring hazard,marin,oscar, moses in the summer. at max if their is any addition in the midfield it ll be in the pivot. what happens if our players get injured because the way hazard and mata are tackled we can get bad news any matchday. then what? should we not have the cover of having a winger to even come off the bench even if we dont start him. plus as i said before, wat bout resting players? we were just talking about mata and hazard getting rest and the most they have got is to not start but come in as a 60th minute sub. plus i dont know y every1 is getting jumpy bout it? we have sent 30 players on loan, if we dont send one just to have some sort of a cover it wont kill the guy.

the way every1 wants piazon to go on loan you would think he was our only youth player who had any chance of making it big. plus as said before if we had wanted to we could have sent him on loan before but dint for a reason.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Said this a few pages back: Lucas is a great prospect but the worst thing we can do for him right now is rush his progress. He should stay the rest of the season here because he is getting all the experience he needs at the U21s and Nextgen series along with the odd first team appearance. Next year he could go on loan to the Championship and PL the year after.

[Chelsea? 892]

We have plenty of players that can play attacking midfield. We have Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Marin, Ramires , Lampard and even Bertrand and Azpilicueta can both play there (and have) as well. It's one of the few positions we're well covered in.

some of the names you.mentioned are just names. You can't say azpi, Bertrand, Ramirez and even Marin are reliable AM's. Only Moses is a real winger that takes on players constantly. The rest of our players either struggle or are natural #10s.

[Tomo 21,681]

sure. we are loaning him and tell me the squad then please. the main point of mine is OUR SQUAD STRENGTH. which is already weak and would only become weaker.

That's where utility players who are good but never going to be anything special like O Shea, Evans, Kalou, Geremi, Meireles, Cahill or passed their best but can still offer something players like Malouda, Essien, Ferrera, Scholes come in.. Those are the type of players you have to make your squad strong. Youngsters with potential should be out on loan until their ready.

[Henrique 9,133]

How has he shown he's good enough for Chelsea? Because of some good play in a game that was a joke? Against ManU in the League Cup, he looked lost. He's young and he needs playing time. A loan makes sense. Staying at Chelsea to get into a game every two months is not good for him (or anyone).

Not sure, in Italy they dont loan their players. If you are a 18 years with a lot of talent you stay there 2 years playing few games each season, untill you are ready for more playing time.

Piazon knows the players and the club philosophy, and that will improve if he stays as a Chelsea player.

Dont you realize that these "lets loan them, then get back when they are ready" just dont work? Since the club started it years, give me one single example that caught on.

Di Santo, Stoch, Sturridge, Kakuta...with De Bruyne, Lukaku, Josh, all of them set to follow the same pattern.

[Tomo 21,681]

Dont you realize that these "lets loan them, then get back when they are ready" just dont work? Since the club started it years, give me one single example that caught on.

Di Santo, Stoch, Sturridge, Kakuta...with De Bruyne, Lukaku, Josh, all of them set to follow the same pattern.

It's down to them aswell, i guess the loan is the sink or swim phase, Di Santo flopped on his loan and even when we sold him he took just under a year a score.

Stoch i think the plan was to bring him back in the squad, he wanted a guarentee'd first team place so we sold him, Danny shined at Bolton and because of that was brought back into the squad the following season and played regularly. The same will probably happen with De Bruyne not only because of how well he is doing, but he can also play in the pivot, which is a problem position for us right now.

[Henrique 9,133]

It's down to them aswell, i guess the loan is the sink or swim phase, Di Santo flopped on his loan and even when we sold him he took just under a year a score.

Stoch i think the plan was to bring him back in the squad, he wanted a guarentee'd first team place so we sold him, Danny shined at Bolton and because of that was brought back into the squad the following season and played regularly. The same will probably happen with De Bruyne not only because of how well he is doing, but he can also play in the pivot, which is a problem position for us right now.

It doesnt matter the reasons, they all failed. I really dont see De Bruyne or Lukaku making it here. Guess who was the first player from academy to get regular first team football: Bertrand.

With a player like Piazon shoud be like this: you are our player, and slowly tou will get more action. Enough of these stupid loans. De Bruyne's case is little different, because they left him where he already was, but when a player is starting to get some minutes in the first team you loan him. Its really,really, stupid.

Messi arrived in Barcelona when he was really young, and he only got cameos when Ronaldinho was the man and there was no room for loans.

[Rmpr 8,977]

It doesnt matter the reasons, they all failed. I really dont see De Bruyne or Lukaku making it here. Guess who was the first player from academy to get regular first team football: Bertrand.

With a player like Piazon shoud be like this: you are our player, and slowly tou will get more action. Enough of these stupid loans. De Bruyne's case is little different, because they left him where he already was, but when a player is starting to get some minutes in the first team you loan him. Its really,really, stupid.

All the other players that failed had a portion of their own fault and over loan time, you are indeed a bit right.

However, 1 or 2 years of loan for a 18-19 year old (Piazon, Chalobah, KDB, Lukaku, etc) is necessary. They all need playing time and a starting routine, it gives the players experience and teaches them how to handle with certain situations (on and off the pitch) they would not be having in our reserve team.

Some really top players dont need to be loaned (Messi, Neymar, etc), but they are pure exception. All young players that belond to a top club, need to develop where they will have an important role.

Just because we did big mistakes with our Academy in the past, it does not mean loaning a player is wrong and harmful.

Piazon (also applies to other promissing youth players) is a great gem, who is being treated very carefully. He is spending time at Cobham (to get a connection with Chelsea and learn with our Top Players), he is getting minor roles at professional level (to get used to it when his time comes), he is also training and playing with our Under-21 Squad and he will ultimately be loaned (so he can comeback as a better and more experienced player). Everything is being thoughtfully planned.

Also, Bertrand has been loaned to Reading and Norwich in the past, so I dont know where your argument comes from...

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

some of the names you.mentioned are just names. You can't say azpi, Bertrand, Ramirez and even Marin are reliable AM's. Only Moses is a real winger that takes on players constantly. The rest of our players either struggle or are natural #10s.

I NEVER said they are reliable. They don't have to be. They are cover. You don't need 7 proven attacking midfielders. And even as cover every single one of them is more reliable than Piazon who was played in a few minutes in one Premier League game. We have no true central midfielders, one striker, and you're worried about who are 7th choice attacking midfielder might be.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Not sure, in Italy they dont loan their players. If you are a 18 years with a lot of talent you stay there 2 years playing few games each season, untill you are ready for more playing time.

Piazon knows the players and the club philosophy, and that will improve if he stays as a Chelsea player.

Dont you realize that these "lets loan them, then get back when they are ready" just dont work? Since the club started it years, give me one single example that caught on.

Di Santo, Stoch, Sturridge, Kakuta...with De Bruyne, Lukaku, Josh, all of them set to follow the same pattern.

It worked with Sturridge. He gave us a good season and then we sold him for 12M pounds. It worked with Bertrand, it's working with a bunch of players right now who are all benefiting from getting extra time. Look at the difference between Lukaku this year and last. Maybe he will never be good enough for Chelsea, but it won't be because he went out on loan .It's the only way it will ever work. When was the last player to come straight out of the youth team and have any impact with Chelsea? 15 years ago? They do it differently in Italy, because they don't have nearly the money the top teams in England do. (Juventus was the top spending club in Seria A and they spent less than Southhampton). Knowing the club and the philosophy is insignificant when compared to actually getting game time and learning on the pitch. It is possible to work young players in ala Arsenal, but we don't. We spend a lot of money buying ready-made players.

As for Piazon...Look at our potential (non-defensive) midfield next year. Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Ramires, Marin, KDB, McEachran, and Piazon with Chelsea certainly buying at least one more midfielder. And that's not including Lampard who might be back or Luiz who could possible move to midfield. That's 4 spots and Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Ramires for starting in those 4 spots. KDB, if he keeps up his current form is likely to be back at Chelsea and Marin could very well be too. At best, you're talking about Piazon being the 7th choice but more realistically, he'd be 9th. Chelsea have less depth overall this season than at any other time I can think of (post-Abramovich) and Piazon still can rarely even get on the bench. You want him to stay at Chelsea? Fine, but you have to accept that he would basically never play and he certainly would never develop. You don't develop without game-time.

[Superblue 6,331]

It worked with Sturridge. He gave us a good season and then we sold him for 12M pounds. It worked with Bertrand, it's working with a bunch of players right now who are all benefiting from getting extra time. Look at the difference between Lukaku this year and last. Maybe he will never be good enough for Chelsea, but it won't be because he went out on loan .It's the only way it will ever work. When was the last player to come straight out of the youth team and have any impact with Chelsea? 15 years ago? They do it differently in Italy, because they don't have nearly the money the top teams in England do. (Juventus was the top spending club in Seria A and they spent less than Southhampton). Knowing the club and the philosophy is insignificant when compared to actually getting game time and learning on the pitch. It is possible to work young players in ala Arsenal, but we don't. We spend a lot of money buying ready-made players.

As for Piazon...Look at our potential (non-defensive) midfield next year. Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Ramires, Marin, KDB, McEachran, and Piazon with Chelsea certainly buying at least one more midfielder. And that's not including Lampard who might be back or Luiz who could possible move to midfield. That's 4 spots and Mata, Hazard, Oscar, Moses, Ramires for starting in those 4 spots. KDB, if he keeps up his current form is likely to be back at Chelsea and Marin could very well be too. At best, you're talking about Piazon being the 7th choice but more realistically, he'd be 9th. Chelsea have less depth overall this season than at any other time I can think of (post-Abramovich) and Piazon still can rarely even get on the bench. You want him to stay at Chelsea? Fine, but you have to accept that he would basically never play and he certainly would never develop. You don't develop without game-time.

Couldn't agree more - people have a misconception of the success of loaning young players because of our previous record.

However over the last couple of years we have shown a much more well thought approach to where our young players move to. Some still don't work like McEachran at Swansea but we learnt our lesson and he's now thriving at Middlesbrough. It's a standard lower but the gametime he's getting is invaluable.

Our younger players will develop much better out on loan as long as its the right standard for them and they're getting sufficient games - the club has made a lot of good decisions recently in this regard.

[Land 331]

I dont think we should loan him,we may need lucas in emergency cases.Its not like he is a scrub anyway.

[Tomo 21,681]

Chelsea have less depth overall this season than at any other time I can think of (post-Abramovich)

I agree about the rest of your post but i won't say this is our worst squad in terms of depth, 2010/2011 we were practically down to youth players, have a look at our bench in the 3-0 loss to Sunderland.

[didierforever 7,349]

That's where utility players who are good but never going to be anything special like O Shea, Evans, Kalou, Geremi, Meireles, Cahill or passed their best but can still offer something players like Malouda, Essien, Ferrera, Scholes come in.. Those are the type of players you have to make your squad strong. Youngsters with potential should be out on loan until their ready.

i am not arguing against that. infact i am all for it. but the point is do we have those kinds of players. no.we are even thinking of selling lampard. so right we dont have an option. our pl squad has 24 players out of which 2 are surely leaving (so 22), 2 are extra goalies (so 20) and romeu is gone for the season (so 19). u need 16 outfield players to choose for a single match!!!

[BLionheart 516]

What are you people even discussing !!! with 5 very capable wingers/play-makers (Moses - Oscar - Marin - Hazard - Mata) 3 very decent emergency back-ups (Lampard - Bertrand - Ramires) , some promising players coming back from loans soon (De-bruyne - Kakuta - Hazard 2) , Piazon will never be getting enough minutes in here .

YES , we are short in numbers and our squad is very thin but that applies to almost every position except the AM/Winger 3 spots , worst case scenario 4 of the above mentioned players gets injured !! we either change the formation or call back one of our loans.

We made a huge mistake not loaning out Kakuta to the right clubs earlier , preventing him vital minutes and experience for his progress , he wasn't getting any minutes in the 1st team and back than we had only the Anelkalouda !!

We clearly need to learn something from the last few years with youth and it's choose carefully where are they heading for a loan.