Gary Cahill

[didierforever 7,349]

I'm well aware when we parked the bus and when we didn't, thanks. 'Ultra defensive' = having a low block, two central defenders who rarely come out with the ball (though I don't know why JT doesn't; for a CB he is very good with his feet), one fullback who is actually a centre half and makes token forays without actually contributing to the attack, another who doesn't cross the halfway line ever, 2 defensive minded central midfielders and 2 wingers who are required to help out by tracking back. Not saying this was necessarily bad, we were required to make this change because the team wasn't ready for a less stifled approach.

I've already given him due credit for that game so I don't know what your point is, really. If one very good performance is enough to make him world class in your eyes, please go ahead.

this is so weird!!! here, i thought we were playing a high line in majority of the matches. http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5545706/jose-mourinho-john-terry-high-line

i mean i would have said we pressed teams high up the pitch even if it was arsenal, united and tottenham at home. half the season we played with lamps and rambo, hardly defensive minded. u think our wingers wont track back next season cos jose promised a more attacking approach? seriously?

the best CB in PL this season and one performance in the world coupled with the last few years (like the CL win), i think thats a fair enough time span to judge if the player is world class or not!!!

[Madmax 9,219]

this is so weird!!! here, i thought we were playing a high line in majority of the matches. http://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5545706/jose-mourinho-john-terry-high-line

i mean i would have said we pressed teams high up the pitch even if it was arsenal, united and tottenham at home.

We played a high line in a majority of our games? That's news to me. From what I remember, we started off by trying to press early and building from the back but reverted to a reactive, soaking-up-pressure style by around mid-December because the manager realized that the squad at his disposal simply wasn't ready for this change. Sure there were the odd games here and there when we pressed relentlessly from the off (the Arsenal game you mention being a prime example) but in the main, Chelsea played a patient game of drawing opponents onto them (the opposite of pressing), nicking it and then countering. Now, against smaller teams at the Bridge we were a little more proactive but this inadvertently suited Cahill's game because then he had to deal with aerial balls the opposition resorted to in order to escape from our numbers up the pitch. It placed an emphasis on his quality on the ball, which is alright but not particularly threatening. Is it a coincidence that visiting teams were happy to allow Cahill and Ivanovic time on the ball?

half the season we played with lamps and rambo, hardly defensive minded.

Ramires is not a defensive midfielder, I agree - but Mourinho played him as one. Lampard isn't either - but how often did you find him getting into shooting positions? A mixture of his deterioration and tactical instructions, imo. The midfield did get better with Matic, who freed up his partner to join in the attack more because he could competently cover.

He isn't world class, but he doesn't get the credit he deserves and people bang on far too much about the system we employed to diminish the performances he put in. I'm not sure why that is....actually I've got quite a good idea why that is and so does any member of this forum with half a brain. Indulging the witless cunt(s) who have an agenda and look to serve it at every occasion must offer up some pleasures, although what they are is beyond me.

Are those personal insults aimed at me?

[didierforever 7,349]

We played a high line in a majority of our games? That's news to me. From what I remember, we started off by trying to press early and building from the back but reverted to a reactive, soaking-up-pressure style by around mid-December because the manager realized that the squad at his disposal simply wasn't ready for this change. Sure there were the odd games here and there when we pressed relentlessly from the off (the Arsenal game you mention being a prime example) but in the main, Chelsea played a patient game of drawing opponents onto them (the opposite of pressing), nicking it and then countering. Now, against smaller teams at the Bridge we were a little more proactive but this inadvertently suited Cahill's game because then he had to deal with aerial balls the opposition resorted to in order to escape from our numbers up the pitch. It placed an emphasis on his quality on the ball, which is quite mediocre. Is it a coincidence that visiting teams were happy to allow Cahill and Ivanovic time on the ball?

Ramires is not a defensive midfielder, I agree - but Mourinho played him as one. Lampard isn't either - but how often did you find him getting into shooting positions? A mixture of his deterioration and tactical instructions, imo. The midfield did get better with Matic, who freed up his partner to join in the attack more because he could competently cover.

so we played a low block against cardiff in the last match. norwich? whu? aston villa? sunderland? i really dont think so. in most of those matches and for the majority of those matches we were camped inside the opposition half waiting for a moment of magic. i have given u link to what our manager thinks we played, so that along with the matches should really take out all doubts. also, cahill is brilliant in a low block, it suits cahill when the opposition simply goes long ball on us, he is pretty good in england be in the world cup or the qualifiers. well... ummm.. i think pretty good all round defender then, i will say. cahill not being good on the ball or not doing a luiz by taking the ball in the opposition third and then leaving us open to the counters is hardly a reason why i would not call him world class. he is a defender, his job is to defend first and be a threat from the set pieces to help the team. (otherwise the day is not far way when people say CR is not world class cos his contribution in defence is next to nothing).

[Madmax 9,219]

so we played a low block against cardiff in the last match. norwich? whu? aston villa? sunderland? i really dont think so. in most of those matches and for the majority of those matches we were camped inside the opposition half waiting for a moment of magic. i have given u link to what our manager thinks we played, so that along with the matches should really take out all doubts. also, cahill is brilliant in a low block, it suits cahill when the opposition simply goes long ball on us, he is pretty good in england be in the world cup or the qualifiers. well... ummm.. i think pretty good all round defender then, i will say. cahill not being good on the ball or not doing a luiz by taking the ball in the opposition third and then leaving us open to the counters is hardly a reason why i would not call him world class. he is a defender, his job is to defend first and be a threat from the set pieces to help the team. (otherwise the day is not far way when people say CR is not world class cos his contribution in defence is next to nothing).

Sigh .. I don't wish to keep going around in circles. Best to agree to disagree

[Reddish-Blue 2,223]

He isn't world class, but he doesn't get the credit he deserves and people bang on far too much about the system we employed to diminish the performances he put in. I'm not sure why that is....actually I've got quite a good idea why that is and so does any member of this forum with half a brain. Indulging the witless cunt(s) who have an agenda and look to serve it at every occasion must offer up some pleasures, although what they are is beyond me.

Chelsea have a system that requires every player to do their job and Cahill has never let us down. He wears that shirt with pride and puts 100% effort in EVERY time he wears it, unlike some other players. That might not make him coveted by some of the bigger clubs but to Jose and to the supporters in the ground, it's invaluable.

For England he gets very little protection in front of him and very little from the full-backs (who in turn get very little from the wide midfielders). That isn't because it's an attacking formation, it's because it's a formation under the guidance of a very average, tactically naive manager.

He's a great bloke and a fantastic defender. Not everyone has to be world class to earn the respect of the supporters.

What credit does he deserve?

He's a solid player who had a strong season in Jose's tactics

Would he be able to replicate those performances for a team that isn't as well structured like Arsenal or Tottenham? I doubt it

[didierforever 7,349]

What credit does he deserve?

He's a solid player who had a strong season in Jose's tactics

Would he be able to replicate those performances for a team that isn't as well structured like Arsenal or Tottenham? I doubt it

would any defender be able to replicate those performances for a team like arsenal or tottenham. vidic was a monster a year ago. jones was supposed to be the next best thing possible a year ago under saf, the person who stopped CR. moyes comes in, structure falls down, and defenders are exposed!!!

[BlueLyon 9,359]

To be fair, are there any real world class defenders out there ala Canavaro, Maldini, Helguera, Blanc, Terry, Puyol,..?

I dont think so. Ramos, Pique; Luiz,...are good players, but they are better in other things, not defending.

When comes to defending, Cahill is better there. Thiago Silva, Chielini are better, but defenders in general are very poor in recent years and Cahill among those is actualy very good. But he wouldnt come close to Terry, Cannavaro etc in their prime.

Also, Baines was terrible in wc, johnson was never amazing, jagielka was poor aswell. And there is gerrard who gives ball to opponent strikers...you donr see that in other top teams in general. England was exposed many times, they have no DM and the result is there. Cahill only mistake was that balo goal, but if there was no Cahill, england would concede at least two more goals.

I agree, its easier to defend when whole team defends (even kalas looked world class vs liverpol), but Cahill was good whole season.

@henrique

Luiz will never be better defender than Cahill, maybe better player and will go further in WC, but his defending is worse than Cahill.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

To be fair, are there any real world class defenders out there ala Canavaro, Maldini, Helguera, Blanc, Terry, Puyol,..?

I dont think so. Ramos, Pique; Luiz,...are good players, but they are better in other things, not defending.

When comes to defending, Cahill is better there. Thiago Silva, Chielini are better, but defenders in general are very poor in recent years and Cahill among those is actualy very good. But he wouldnt come close to Terry, Cannavaro etc in their prime.

IMO, the last real WC defenders were Nesta-Thiago Silva. AC Milan's defence was a joy to watch when Nesta was in his prime. But in recent years, defenders really have been poor, even in top teams. Hell if I know why. It's pretty puzzling, actually.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Are those personal insults aimed at me?

Nope.

What credit does he deserve?

He's a solid player who had a strong season in Jose's tactics

Would he be able to replicate those performances for a team that isn't as well structured like Arsenal or Tottenham? I doubt it

He deserves the credit that most supporters gave him...he was widely viewed as one of our best players last year and in my opinion he actually picked up a lot of the slack that JT leaves nowadays because of his advancing years.

Those two together complimented each other perfectly. Your comment about replicating performances in a shittier team could apply to Lamps, JT, Cole, Cech etc. In fact JT is a great example of a player who simply didn't replicate his club form at international level. Do you want to criticise him? Of course not.

For some reason Cahill is an easy target.

IMO, the last real WC defenders were Nesta-Thiago Silva. AC Milan's defence was a joy to watch when Nesta was in his prime. But in recent years, defenders really have been poor, even in top teams. Hell if I know why. It's pretty puzzling, actually.

Great point. Cahill isn't world class, but very, very few players are. Defenders are going for £50 million who aren't world class, such is the dearth of decent options nowadays.

[Henrique 9,133]

To be fair, are there any real world class defenders out there ala Canavaro, Maldini, Helguera, Blanc, Terry, Puyol,..?

I dont think so. Ramos, Pique; Luiz,...are good players, but they are better in other things, not defending.

When comes to defending, Cahill is better there. Thiago Silva, Chielini are better, but defenders in general are very poor in recent years and Cahill among those is actualy very good. But he wouldnt come close to Terry, Cannavaro etc in their prime.

Also, Baines was terrible in wc, johnson was never amazing, jagielka was poor aswell. And there is gerrard who gives ball to opponent strikers...you donr see that in other top teams in general. England was exposed many times, they have no DM and the result is there. Cahill only mistake was that balo goal, but if there was no Cahill, england would concede at least two more goals.

I agree, its easier to defend when whole team defends (even kalas looked world class vs liverpol), but Cahill was good whole season.

@henrique

Luiz will never be better defender than Cahill, maybe better player and will go further in WC, but his defending is worse than Cahill.

Luiz is clearly better player and defender.

Cahill had a better season, but that doesn't make him the better defender.

[iseah100 5,612]

Luiz is clearly better player and defender.

Said no one ever.

[robsblubot 3,217]

Said no one ever.

I guess he just did.

The players market spoke earlier, but people here don't understand the language.

[iseah100 5,612]

I guess he just did.

The players market spoke earlier, but people here don't understand the language.

Said no one ever who isn't Brazilian.*

[robsblubot 3,217]

Said no one ever who isn't Brazilian.*

Last time I checked PSG is from France, Bayer is from Germany, and Barcelona from Spain.

[iseah100 5,612]

Last time I checked PSG is from France, Bayer is from Germany, and Barcelona from Spain.

Last time I checked, Luiz isn't worth £50m. But whatever floats your boat, yo.

[robsblubot 3,217]

Last time I checked, Luiz isn't worth £50m. But whatever floats your boat, yo.

So where did you "check"?

You have a serious problem with facts vs opinion: the fact is PSG did pay 50m while your "opinion" is that he's not worth 50m.

Barca offer was gong to be 35M (also not a fact but some reports), so PSG had to outbid them. So, why hasn't Gary gotten any offer ever? Why isn't any top side after him?

[BlueLyon 9,359]

There was time Cahill was rumoured to be target of barcelona too. Check if you dont belive...

But does that make any difference who is better player?

No, Cahill is one who is more reliable at the back through all season, Luiz made few outstanding performances every season mostly in CL and in big PL games, but as much he was awesome, he was also bad in certain other games.

To conclude, he played as DM this season here, sure there was reason why Cahill was chosen ahead of him by Mou. Defensive tactics helped and made Cahill look beter than he is, but with Luiz in our defence who constantly charges up the field, our team would concede more goals than with Cahill, despite defensive tactics. And there is difference.

Cahill as CB is more reliable, while Luiz has more awesome hair. Luiz is exotic type of CB who charges forward all the time. He could be world class DM, but as CB he just isnt consistent enough. He has more passion than Cahill, but in every other part of defending, Cahill gets ahead.

Cahill-Terry parthership got worldwide recognition, we conceded least goals in PL, 10 less than City.

I dont recall Terry-Luiz partnership being called world class on the other hand.

Bottom line is, Luiz is way too mistake prone when not playing for Brazil, he doesnt suit us and for 50mio, we can always splash cash on Mangala, Varane, Benatia who will be/is definately better in every aspect of defending than Luiz.

And the fact he got sold for 50 mio doesnt make him better than he is. If 50m for Luiz means anything its that Psg owner is idiot. If he wanted strong defence; he would buy Benatia for example.

[robsblubot 3,217]

There was time Cahill was rumoured to be target of barcelona too. Check if you dont belive...

But does that make any difference who is better player?

No, Cahill is one who is more reliable at the back through all season, Luiz made few outstanding performances every season mostly in CL and in big PL games, but as much he was awesome, he was also bad in certain other games.

To conclude, he played as DM this season here, sure there was reason why Cahill was chosen ahead of him by Mou. Defensive tactics helped and made Cahill look beter than he is, but with Luiz in our defence who constantly charges up the field, our team would concede more goals than with Cahill, despite defensive tactics. And there is difference.

Cahill as CB is more reliable, while Luiz has more awesome hair. Luiz is exotic type of CB who charges forward all the time. He could be world class DM, but as CB he just isnt consistent enough. He has more passion than Cahill, but in every other part of defending, Cahill gets ahead.

Cahill-Terry parthership got worldwide recognition, we conceded least goals in PL, 10 less than City.

I dont recall Terry-Luiz partnership being called world class on the other hand.

Bottom line is, Luiz is way too mistake prone when not playing for Brazil, he doesnt suit us and for 50mio, we can always splash cash on Mangala, Varane, Benatia who will be/is definately better in every aspect of defending than Luiz.

And the fact he got sold for 50 mio doesnt make him better than he is. If 50m for Luiz means anything its that Psg owner is idiot. If he wanted strong defence; he would buy Benatia for example.

" Luiz has more awesome hair."

That's a ridiculous stament. So, you are saying PSG paid 50m for his hair. You know it's not the owner right? that they have scouts, agents, coaches who are paid to research and get the data on stuff like this? Yeah yeah everybody is an idiot, except Chelsea fans who think Gary is the best defender in the world.

Never seen any reports about any team after Gary, and he'd be awful at Barca; they need high blocking defenders. (this is an opinion)