Gary Cahill

[nadavTKL 1,787]

Or we could have Luiz, with no positional discipline, in there and concede goals through stupid brain-farts.

For every mistake Cahill makes, Luiz is equally as culpable.

Fair point, but i think Luiz is better when we play more attacking football - which shoud be the way we play most of the time. Unless we play a very low line, Cahill will make us suffer i feel.

[robsblubot 3,217]

Or we could have Luiz, with no positional discipline, in there and concede goals through stupid brain-farts.

For every mistake Cahill makes, Luiz is equally as culpable.

that's not a good argument for Cahill, because Luiz is twice the footballer.

[Magic Lamps 11,449]

Cahill, just like Cech, had an error of judgement there. He expected Agüero to cut inside before shooting, so he backed off. It is not the case that he always backs off strikers, but when he does the striker scores thereafter. It looks bad, but you can make a bad decision at times. If agüero had taken a touch, cahill would probably taken the ball off him. When you are 1vs1 with a striker and you got no help, you usually cover the middle and not the outside first, that is what Cahill did, which made him look slow there. When he has the middle and Cech has the near post, nothing will happen. But Cech was as surprised which makes Cahill's mistake look even worse.

[didierforever 7,349]

should have done better for the goal... he could have intercepted or he should have hassled aguero...he defo lacks that extra zing to be a WC defender. and is definitely found out against good strikers... still very solid in the D and him and JT are our best combo...

[Henrique 9,133]

Or we could have Luiz, with no positional discipline, in there and concede goals through stupid brain-farts.

For every mistake Cahill makes, Luiz is equally as culpable.

Luiz used do make really horrendous mistakes some times, but the problem with Cahill is his concept. His is an average CB because its in his football DNA.

He is not as adventurous as Luiz, and he does not advance to the second defensive line trying to intercept a ball like Luiz does, so some people feel more "safe" with Cahill alongside Terry, but for those people every "timid" CB would be a better option than Luiz.

Since Cahill came to Chelsea its easy to realize he is an average CB. I feel really bad for English Team to have Cahill as a starting XI. Everytime he faces quality offensive opposition, players like Aguero run trough Cahill just like a knife through butter.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Luiz used do make really horrendous mistakes some times, but the problem with Cahill is his concept. His is an average CB because its in his football DNA.

He is not as adventurous as Luiz, and he does not advance to the second defensive line trying to intercept a ball like Luiz does, so some people feel more "safe" with Cahill alongside Terry, but for those people every "timid" CB would be a better option than Luiz.

Since Cahill came to Chelsea its easy to realize he is an average CB. I feel really bad for English Team to have Cahill as a starting XI. Everytime he faces quality offensive opposition, players like Aguero run trough Cahill just like a knife through butter.

Luiz is a better footballer, yet Cahill is the better CB. As you say, Cahill is decidedly average, which speaks volume of Luiz's ability in that position. That's just my view.

[Blue Armour 4,164]

should have done better for the goal... he could have intercepted or he should have hassled aguero...he defo lacks that extra zing to be a WC defender. and is definitely found out against good strikers... still very solid in the D and him and JT are our best combo...

He's a safe option for the run-of--the-mill type matches, against teams that don't feature strikers of the caliber of Benteke or Aguero.

Hopefully, his inclusion in the last two matches will serve as wake-up call for Luiz, who when on form is our best option at the back (besides JT of course)

[The Skipper 20,593]

Luiz is a better footballer, yet Cahill is the better CB. As you say, Cahill is decidedly average, which speaks volume of Luiz's ability in that position. That's just my view.

In what way do you think Cahill is a better CB? List them please? (apart from odd concentration problems)

[didierforever 7,349]

what is wrong with trying to be "safe" when u r talking about a CB? we are not BARCA nor is jose trying to make us one. he is even instilling a sense of defensive responsibiblity among the likes of hazard. so we will always be playing "safe" there.

GC is an average CB. his reading of the game is average, interceptions are average but in the box, he is very good. GC knows his limitations and he knows his strengths and he plays accordingly. he plays the odds when he keeps shying back from strikers into the box to make a last ditch tackle but atleast he makes the strikers earn their goal.

i have no doubt that DL would have intercepted the ball that led to aguero's goal, on the other hand GC gave aguero 2 yards' space to take a shot from a very acute angle towards cech's near post - not as bad a thing as people are making out to be.

[Barbara 15,149]

Luiz is a better footballer, yet Cahill is the better CB. As you say, Cahill is decidedly average, which speaks volume of Luiz's ability in that position. That's just my view.

I disagree... also just my view.

I think Luiz is a better footballer and a better CB and Mourinho knows it too.

Luiz rarely makes a mistake because of any limitation he may have as a CB (in my opinion he doesn't have any, maybe except aerial duels). He normally makes mistakes because of sloppiness and lack of concentration. From time to time he also pays the price for risking a more aggressive and bold style of defending, but I can't fault him on that because it comes with the package and it's positive especially when 9 times out of 10 that he takes risks we don't pay for it.

Cahill makes mistakes due to his limitations, like today. It wasn't only in the goal, the next attempt he failed yet again. While Cahill's positioning is decent (Luiz's is very good imo and Terry's is nearly flawless) two things make it look worse than it is: 1) he lacks pace and whenever the striker 'surprises' him he can't pursue them fast enough to at least make things difficult [it happened in the goal, he chased Aguero too damn slowly); 2) he lacks vision - or at least his reading of the game is very limited. In the second play I mentioned (I'm almost sure it was a Silva shot inside the box) he was positioned where he should, near the player that could receive the pass and between said player and the one who has the ball. But as he can't read the game well he just stands between both, without properly marking any of them although he's positioned where he should be. Because of the combination of those two things his positioning looks very poor - when in fact it's decent.@JDY, saw it coming and posted it days before the match because against a world class striker Cahill is simply not enough.

@The Skipper, asked you to elaborate further on why you think Cahill is the best CB, I'll jump into the conversation between the two of you and explain why I think Luiz is not only a better footballer, but also a better CB.

I think a CB must have the following aspects to his game:

- good positioning

- good vision/reading to defend, to move, to anticipate, to cover,

- good movement

- pace

- aerial prowess

- good reflexes

As a bonus a CB can also offer:

- aggressive defending (the risks I mentioned above)

- good pass

- vision to build the plays from behind

- score goals (headers, free kicks, penalties)

- intuition.

Out of the 'must' package there isn't one thing I think Cahill is better than Luiz. Maybe they're about the same with header clearances, but tbf while I know Luiz isn't impressive on that, I don't remember exactly how Cahill is because when it comes to that all I can see is John Terry and how immense he is on that. So maybe there's a tie here, or even something that Cahill is better, but I don't think so because if he was really good on that I guess I would remember him for that.

Cahill does textbook defense and in order for a CB to offer above average defending while doing textbook defending he must excel in those aspects and honestly while he is decent in some, good in others, there isn't one of those things I think he's superb.

Then there's the bonus parts that is the opposite of textbook defense and in all those things (maybe exception scoring headers once in a while) Cahill fails in all of them. So all in all imo Cahill is decent, but not enough a good player to be in a club like Chelsea - unless he's a squad player.

Luiz problems are from a different nature - which doesn't exempt him from them. He sometimes lacks concentration and he can be sloppy at times. I do fault him for that, especially because for Brazil those things happen way less often. I don't know why that happens. There are a lot of factors and possible reasons, but I can only speculate. Maybe because it's he plays for the NT much less, or because he's an extreme patriotic player and he plays his blood for Seleção [if that's the case, I guess it's psychological and something he can't control because he already proved and showed his passion for us], or maybe it's because he plays by Thiago Silva and that can make a whole difference [although Terry has been nothing short of brilliant for us]. Still I don't feel he does that on purpose, he's showed and proved his passion for us, I think it's more a psychological fault he has.

At the end of the day I feel like Luiz makes mistakes because he isn't constant enough whereas Cahill make them because he isn't good enough.

I'm about to post on Mourinho's thread about his work with our players and I'll mention Torres, Ramires, Oscar, Schürrle and Terry, but I'll also mention that I think the next in the list is going to be David Luiz.

[Sheva. 5,373]

Overall he played a good game. City didn't have many clear chances, and when they did it was due to individual brilliance of their very good players.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

In what way do you think Cahill is a better CB? List them please? (apart from odd concentration problems)

Two words: positional discipline. Add to that he is a "typical English centre-half" and throws absolutely everything at the ball. Luiz does the same, but not quite to the same extent. Cahill communicates well. Doesn't try and overplay, he simply smacks the ball upfield instead of trying to dribble out of danger. All of those things just condone towards the image of what I like to see in a centre-back. People are entitled to disagree, but no-one is going to change my opinion, which is based out of my own preferences of what I demand from a defender.

Out of the 'must' package there isn't one thing I think Cahill is better than Luiz.

And that's your opinion. On the other hand, I think Cahill does the simple things far more effectively than Luiz.

What it boils down to is Cahill plays what you would expect a £7 million defender to perform. Is Luiz a £24 million defender? Not a chance in Hell.

[The only place to be 11,313]

At the end of the day I feel like Luiz makes mistakes because he isn't constant enough whereas Cahill make them because he isn't good enough.

I'm about to post on Mourinho's thread about his work with our players and I'll mention Torres, Ramires, Oscar, Schürrle and Terry, but I'll also mention that I think the next in the list is going to be David Luiz.

And therein lies the dividing line - people who pay their money and turn up week in and week out want to see players giving 100% every single time. In fact most supporters I know want that.

I'd take a player giving their all and making the occasional mistake over a player who has lapses in concentration/can't be fucking bothered every time. He's fucking lucky to be wearing the Chelsea shirt and if he doesn't realise that and doesn't bother against small teams like Cardiff, then he can leave. He won't be missed.

[Stingray 9,441]

I - for one -am glad we have both...

They offer different things and can be used accordingly. Which is a plus. Also, a CB that is very decent and gives his all is an asset.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I - for one -am glad we have both...

They offer different things and can be used accordingly. Which is a plus.

A very fair point Tom. If José can get the best out of both, then great. We see how weak City are without their main defender (Kompany) - to have players of the ilk of Luiz/Cahill, Azpilicueta, etc. as back-up players speaks volumes of our squad.

[Tomo 21,681]

Two words: positional discipline. Add to that he is a "typical English centre-half" and throws absolutely everything at the ball. Luiz does the same, but not quite to the same extent. Cahill communicates well. Doesn't try and overplay, he simply smacks the ball upfield instead of trying to dribble out of danger. All of those things just condone towards the image of what I like to see in a centre-back. People are entitled to disagree, but no-one is going to change my opinion, which is based out of my own preferences of what I demand from a defender.

I respect your opinion, but at the same time it's like Gary Neville said, it's the likes of Luiz, Pique, Lucio that are winning International tournaments, while we haven't got close to them. There has been times where Luiz playing it from the back start's attacks where as punting it away gives the ball straight back to the opposition.

I think Cahill is perfect for the games like Stoke or a Big Sam side where we will need to battle hard for every 50-50 and 2nd ball but against the true high caliber opponents i will always feel better with Luiz playing,

[The only place to be 11,313]

What it boils down to is Cahill plays what you would expect a £7 million defender to perform. Is Luiz a £24 million defender? Not a chance in Hell.

Exactly. I know what I'm going to get from Cahill in most matches, which means you can kinda cover for him in some instances.

Luiz could do anything. He can be world-class and completely no-nonsense, but then he'll just throw in a complete brainfart and cost us a goal. It's frustrating to watch him because he has all the physical tools to be the best defender in the world, but I can name a dozen defenders who were physically underwhelming (Adams, Moore, Baresi, Cannavaro, Terry for fucks sake!) who covered these physical deficiencies with the top three inches. Luiz is almost the opposite at times.

Fortunately we have the best guy in charge to deal with him which is why I'm not that worried right now. We beat the best team in England with Luiz on the bench.

[ChelseasMessiah 304]

I can't wait to see the back of him, one of the reasons why the summer can't come soon enough given the CB targets Jose is looking, never even close to being a decent player. Most top clubs in Europe are desperate for centre halves, no one came calling for Cahill. Even when we bought him Arsenal only wanted him as a back up, but not for more than the 6 million they were willing to pay, which is about the price tag for him talent wise.