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Negredo and Jovetic in addition to Aguero and Dzeko. Nice selection for them once again.

Pretty crazy how City already have such a crazy expensive squad and have gone out and spent another 100m. And notice how only one of them is a young player. City are obviously heavily focused on winning in the immediate future and don't have NEARLY the promise as we do long term.

Still think City are ever so slightly ahead of us until we make one or two more additions.

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we clearly disagree. I think there are tons of better midfield players around the world than Cesc currently. If we are going to talk about projection and past the conversation will always go to Pele, Maradona and then Neymar or Eden.

I think he's overrated, I disagree about your opinion of him - currently form and past form in Arsenal - and he was very stupid when he did everything in the world to go to Barça - he was never the same level of players they have in Barça and ofc he wouldn't have as much space there, and of course it would affect his performances and of course he would get worse instead of improve. A blind could see that it was a bad deal for him, but he wanted the fame, the money, or whatever else is that he wanted (except the home stuff. A cunt like him doesn't care that much about being home, because if he did he wouldn't have left Arsenal, but that's another convo). So the fact that his form worsened ever since he moved there not only is obvious but it was completely expected. As if he was in the same level as the rest of Barça's midfield. AS IF.

When I said I'd mention 20 midfielders I didn't necessarily think of central mids, just better midfields (in general) than him... (in no particular oder) Schweinsteiger, Pirlo, Alonso, Xavi, Ozil, Iniesta, Mata, Goetze, Busquets (as much as it hurts to admit the little cunt is actually good), Ribery, Toure, Silva...

but if I had to restrict to CM then I guess I could name only 8 :P but with a bit research maybe I could make it 10 as my memory sucks

Bottom line is: we disagree. I think he is overhyped and overrated. You think he's amazing. ;)

Oh yeah, I actually agree that current Cesc hasn't been anywhere near good enough, if you read my post I wasn't actually saying that current Cesc is anywhere near being the best midfielder in the world - you'll see that I do say that today he's a shadow of his former self and I completely agree with you on how he practically left Arsenal in the gutter by forcing a move to Barcelona.

However, Cesc does have the tools to be the best central midfielder in the world in the right environment. Had he stayed at Arsenal and had Arsenal kept their stars (e.g. the Nasris, RVPs, Songs etc.) they could've easily been challenging for the title right now with Cesc being their main player. I believe that United would be a great environment for him to exploit his talents and that's why I really don't hope they sign him as he'd definitely be fantastic for them. I don't think I've overrated him - I acknowledge that he shouldn't be considered as one of the best right now but what I am saying is that if he's under the right circumstances and the right environment he'll show in my opinion that he can be the best.

I feel like we're going around in circles though so we'll just have to agree to disagree!

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^ I reckon Dzeko will still go if they sign Negredo. For me it's a definite improvement on what they had, removing 3 players on massive wages & frequent problems off the pitch (Tevez & Balotelli).

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Negredo and Jovetic in addition to Aguero and Dzeko. Nice selection for them once again.

Pretty crazy how City already have such a crazy expensive squad and have gone out and spent another 100m. And notice how only one of them is a young player. City are obviously heavily focused on winning in the immediate future and don't have NEARLY the promise as we do long term.

Still think City are ever so slightly ahead of us until we make one or two more additions.

And this is good. The fact that City have to spend another £100m to be "slightly ahead of us until we make one or two additions" is great. If we sign De Rossi for example we'll actually have a squad on par with City with us spending far less, which is fantastic.

The squad make up we have at CFC currently is absolutely fantastic considering we've got so many great young players. We're really almost set to challenge on all fronts which is more than what I could've asked for at the end of last season when it looked so bleak. Like you said, add one or two players and our squad is basically perfect. In an ideal scenario (mine anyway) we'd sign De Rossi, ship off Torres and sign Rooney. The squad would be so balanced and flexible tactically for Jose that we'd potentially have the best squad in the PL - and it's been a long, long time since we've been able to say that.

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Negredo and Jovetic in addition to Aguero and Dzeko. Nice selection for them once again.

Pretty crazy how City already have such a crazy expensive squad and have gone out and spent another 100m. And notice how only one of them is a young player. City are obviously heavily focused on winning in the immediate future and don't have NEARLY the promise as we do long term.

Still think City are ever so slightly ahead of us until we make one or two more additions.

^ I reckon Dzeko will still go if they sign Negredo. For me it's a definite improvement on what they had, removing 3 players on massive wages & frequent problems off the pitch (Tevez & Balotelli).

But still it seems they learn nothing from their past mistakes...

Teams that are made from night to day don't work on short term!

Look at PSG - unless you count winning La Ligue 1 like that as an accomplishment for their investment last season, I know I don't; look even at our squad last season that struggled to make the deep changes that Oscar and Hazard brought to work. Real Madrid in recent seasons - especially before Mourinho arrived, etc, etc, etc.

They have a new manager, half new team and seem to fail to realize that to make it work they'd have to give it at least a couple of seasons...

Despite having cited our own situation last season I see it differently from ManCity. we had deficiencies that needed to be addressed. There was no way a club as big as Chelsea is nowadays could continue to be successful without real talent in the midfield and just parking the bus when the quality was too abysmal compared to European oppositions.

We were like City a few seasons ago, but I'd say Roman and co learned that patience is required, not only welcomed. an investment can't really qualify into failure unless you give it a couple of seasons.

I'd be surprised if ManCity ends up being a title contestant this year as well as improving much their CL result, but they could be very dangerous in 2014/15 unless they dismantle and rebuild the team again.

Which is why I've never wanted us to sign too many new guys this season. We need to be clinical, punctual, precise in the new signings. A good DM and a more reliable FW and that's it. We've already signed MvG to be part of the squad and André to help the attack situation. In no way I see those '4' new players starting in the team at once. Marco might not even play much this season at all.

edit: ESPN Brasil has this summary of main European teams signings, offloads, players coming from loan and their objectives (to sign and offload). It's updated daily.

Legend (English)

Quem chega (signings). Fechados (deals done). Objetivos (Aiming to sign)

Quem sai (offloads). Fechados (deals done). Objetivos (Others teams trying to sign).

Voltando do Empréstimo (back from load)

Time base (base squad)

http://www.espn.com.br/noticia/339362_mercado-da-bola-veja-as-principais-transferencias-do-futebol-internacional

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I know you guys are all optimistic, but this manchester city team seems out of our reach this year. They steam rolled us last year, and in the short term their signings look like they'll help them more than they'll help us. Maybe Jose's magic will be able to even the odds, but I'm hesitant.

I think we should lower our expectations a bit and realize our squad is still quite young, and second or third place finish wouldn't be the end of the world as long as players keep improving.

It will be an exciting season none the less and I think we'll finish ahead of United this year! (which is saying something because we've only done it once, and by just one point, in all the years since mourinho's been gone).

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I know you guys are all optimistic, but this manchester city team seems out of our reach this year. They steam rolled us last year, and in the short term their signings look like they'll help them more than they'll help us. Maybe Jose's magic will be able to even the odds, but I'm hesitant.

I think we should lower our expectations a bit and realize our squad is still quite young, and second or third place finish wouldn't be the end of the world as long as players keep improving.

It will be an exciting season none the less and I think we'll finish ahead of United this year! (which is saying something because we've only done it once, and by just one point, in all the years since mourinho's been gone).

I'm yet to see a team that changes half the squad PLUS the manager to make it work off the bat.

I'm not saying they have a weaker side than ours... I'm saying it takes time to make things work... Never said they signed badly... just that they keep bringing way too many players without giving time for the team to be really built.

Chemistry, style, familiarity - all of which essential for a team to work - take months, not weeks, especially when it involves literally half the team.

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I'm yet to see a team that changes half the squad PLUS the manager to make it work off the bat.

I'm not saying they have a weaker side than ours... I'm saying it takes time to make things work... Never said they signed badly... just that they keep bringing way too many players without giving time for the team to be really built.

Chemistry, style, familiarity - all of which essential for a team to work - take months, not weeks, especially when it involves literally half the team.

All good points, but PSG has managed with a certain degree of success. City also has a pretty easy first 6 games, I'm afraid if they get some momentum going at the beginning of the season they'll be unstoppable.

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I know you guys are all optimistic, but this manchester city team seems out of our reach this year. They steam rolled us last year, and in the short term their signings look like they'll help them more than they'll help us. Maybe Jose's magic will be able to even the odds, but I'm hesitant.

I think we should lower our expectations a bit and realize our squad is still quite young, and second or third place finish wouldn't be the end of the world as long as players keep improving.

It will be an exciting season none the less and I think we'll finish ahead of United this year! (which is saying something because we've only done it once, and by just one point, in all the years since mourinho's been gone).

Well I believe we are not yet good enough to challenge.

I feel it will be a one horse race come March.

But that's because of the strikers we got.

What we got is Ok, but not a power house to attack On all fronts.

If we where to get rooney maybe, but that's a big maybe as we need to see if he adjust to the squad or become another flopes

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All good points, but PSG has managed with a certain degree of success. City also has a pretty easy first 6 games, I'm afraid if they get some momentum going at the beginning of the season they'll be unstoppable.

I think PSG success is misleading. Winning League 1 doesn't compare to even being a contender in EPL. League 1 was especially weak last season... Their group in UCL was a joke and Valencia can't be a rival to a team that made as much investment. Their goal was to reach UCL SF and hopefully the final. You don't do either without beating at least one of the those: ManUtd, Bayern, Barcelona, RM, Juve and last season Dortmund. their first challenge they lost... when you put that amount of money aiming immediate results you have to beat one of those teams.

Now talking about City... EPL will have an atypical season as ManUtd, ManCity and Chelsea - the latest champions - have new managers. Spurs may lose Bale and if that happens, it'll have an impact and then there's Arsenal. So in theory it'll be a more unpredictable season, but still ManUtd kept their base as well as Chelsea, so it won't be easy for City to really be a title contender 8-6 rounds away the end of the season.

UCL depends on the kind of group they get. If they have path similar to what PSG had last season they can make it to QF, but I don't know how much successful that is if you only beat the likes of Porto, Kiev, Zagreb and Valencia (that finished 5th in La Liga btw - a very weak league outside of RM and Barça domination)... it's subjective and relative.

I don't consider PSG did much if you look to Lyon doing the same a few years ago, with much less the investment...

I stand by my words... I'll be surprised if they really fight for EPL and if they beat one of the big guns in UCL in knockouts. But that's just me.

That said I do believe if they keep the base for the following season they might be one of the big guns in both competitions.

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