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BlueLion.

Juan Mata

Started by BlueLion.,

10,737 posts in this topic
1 minute ago, Sideshow Luiz said:

I didn't think at the time that he was being rotated here.  It seemed like he was only playing bit parts in the League cup, or substitute appearance.  I remember feeling at the time that Jose wanted to make an example of him.

Can't find it anymore, but I read something similar with his time at Porto.

Last person I'd accuse of being big headed is Mata.

He never went more than 3 games without a start here under Mou, not 100% sure on the exact figures but i would imagine Mata's starts come at a similar ratio at Old Trafford.

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6 hours ago, Tomo said:

He never went more than 3 games without a start here under Mou, not 100% sure on the exact figures but i would imagine Mata's starts come at a similar ratio at Old Trafford.

That's still fairly sparse considering that he was our 2x player of the year.  Though, I have to admit, I thought it was even less than that.

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May have said this before but when I was watching United v West Brom last night, really can't help but feel (again) Mata's career has gone downhill after joining United. Was onto something, looked to be part of something special when he was with us but he's become just another player at United. What a shame. Could have won 2 league titles by now!

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23 hours ago, Jason said:

May have said this before but when I was watching United v West Brom last night, really can't help but feel (again) Mata's career has gone downhill after joining United. Was onto something, looked to be part of something special when he was with us but he's become just another player at United. What a shame. Could have won 2 league titles by now!

He was simply a big(ish) fish in a small pond at the time he was doing well here. He certainly didn't deserve the second player of the year award, but regardless, once the team got better, he was phased out. He was never as good as touted, but was someone who was exciting to watch at times in our transition period.

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24 minutes ago, Thor said:

He was simply a big(ish) fish in a small pond at the time he was doing well here. He certainly didn't deserve the second player of the year award, but regardless, once the team got better, he was phased out. He was never as good as touted, but was someone who was exciting to watch at times in our transition period.

Comon man, he was brilliant for us. Always popped up with important goals and assists. He was unfairly phased out in my opinion. He should have been kept for squad strength at the very least.

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2 hours ago, DDA said:

Comon man, he was brilliant for us. Always popped up with important goals and assists. He was unfairly phased out in my opinion. He should have been kept for squad strength at the very least.

Too many revisionist history these days...

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14 hours ago, DDA said:

Comon man, he was brilliant for us. Always popped up with important goals and assists. He was unfairly phased out in my opinion. He should have been kept for squad strength at the very least.

When we were at our lowest, he was our best player. He just isn't a transcendent talent, or dynamic enough to be a truly big time player. He was great for a season and a half, but I use that term loosely. Cesc was great for us too, but like a lot of these slow, unathletic players, at times they go missing and don't impact the games. 

Compare him to someone like Willian. Another player who was our best when we were at our low point. Difference is, Willian is dynamic, and can use other assets to impact a game even when he is completely off the mark. In turn, it makes him a better player than Mata. 

11 hours ago, Jason said:

Too many revisionist history these days...

I'm not sure which bit was revisionist... I said he was good when we were going through a rough patch. That is factually correct. 

He didn't want to fight for his place, which was fine, since we played better without him. Just another player at United? He became that here once the team started clicking. He was the odd man out. 

 

It is like when people went mad here when we couldn't get Gotze. Another that fits in the form of the Mata type. These small, unathletic and slow players have a small window of good play in them, and not to mention, it having to be under the right circumstance. A lot of them need the team somewhat centred around them, or the play to go through them, yet they aren't impactful enough to justify it. 

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1 minute ago, Thor said:

I'm not sure which bit was revisionist... I said he was good when we were going through a rough patch. That is factually correct. 

He didn't want to fight for his place, which was fine, since we played better without him. Just another player at United? He became that here once the team started clicking. He was the odd man out. 

That's rather ironic. We moaned so much about Mourinho's negative football and wanted more positive football but here you are, making it sound like it was great and all. I mean sure, we did win the Premier League and League Cup under him but the football was largely forgettable barring the first half of 2014/15 and some games in 2013/14. Had we appointed a manager who plays attacking football rather than Mourinho back in 2013, Mata would have likely been part of that setup. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

That's rather ironic. We moaned so much about Mourinho's negative football and wanted more positive football but here you are, making it sound like it was great and all. I mean sure, we did win the Premier League and League Cup under him but the football was largely forgettable barring the first half of 2014/15 and some games in 2013/14. Had we appointed a manager who plays attacking football rather than Mourinho back in 2013, Mata would have likely been part of that setup. 

We did moan, but Mata has gone to United and played under 3 different managers in that time, and none have preferred him, or found him to be the magician that some claim he is. 

On any big team looking to win the title, he is a useful squad player. You could get away with having him in your starting line up if you're fighting for top 4, but I just don't see him as effective enough. 

Where do you see him fitting even if we do have a more attacking style of play? Simply not quick or dynamic enough for me to stick him at CAM. 

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1 minute ago, Thor said:

We did moan, but Mata has gone to United and played under 3 different managers in that time, and none have preferred him, or found him to be the magician that some claim he is. 

To be fair, he's played under a clueless Moyes, Van Gaal and a defensive Mourinho. Hardly the right managers to use him effectively, although Mourinho has used to decent effect when it comes to scoring goals, including some crucial ones at times.

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

Where do you see him fitting even if we do have a more attacking style of play? Simply not quick or dynamic enough for me to stick him at CAM. 

I don't disagree with that but if he can produce the goods on a consistent basis, then why not? It's not like quicker or more dynamic players have always succeeded in the CAM role. 

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12 hours ago, Jason said:

Too many revisionist history these days...

 

15 hours ago, DDA said:

Comon man, he was brilliant for us. Always popped up with important goals and assists. He was unfairly phased out in my opinion. He should have been kept for squad strength at the very least.

I'd say it's more revisionist claiming he was brilliant right up until the moment he was sold when in reality was he was under par for the best part of a year before we let him go to Man U, and he has got even worse since then.

He was very good in 11/12 (although just how good was being exaggerated due to how bad Kaloudanelka and Torres were) and was brilliant for the first half of 12/13 but after that season hit the new year his form fell off a cliff and it was Hazard, not him, delivering the goods to get us Europa and top four. Judging by the comments on his thread in Redcafe then he hasn't got any better atall, in fact (ironically) most of them are talking about him in the same vein we did Oscar at the very end.

He was a decent player for us and his arrival (and creativity) came at a time it was so desperately needed but to get £37m out of him when we did was incredible business, the big mistake that window was the other AM that slipped through the net!!!

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8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

He was very good in 11/12 (although just how good was being exaggerated due to how bad Kaloudanelka and Torres were) and was brilliant for the first half of 12/13 but after that season hit the new year his form fell off a cliff and it was Hazard, not him, delivering the goods to get us Europa and top four.

Really? If we look at the stats - from January till May 2013 - Mata contributed 6 goals and 19 assists (5 goals and 14 assists in PL + Europa League) while Hazard contributed 7 goals and 9 assists (6 goals and 7 assists in PL + Europa League). I know you aren't exactly fond of Mata but you're over-exaggerating when you said Hazard delivered the goods to get us top four and Europa League. He did contribute to some important goals, notably the equalizer against Sparta Prague and two assists at Aston Villa but in no way he was as influential as you made him out to be that season.

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Just now, Jason said:

Really? If we look at the stats - from January till May 2013 - Mata contributed 6 goals and 19 assists (5 goals and 14 assists in PL + Europa League) while Hazard contributed 7 goals and 9 assists (6 goals and 7 assists in PL + Europa League). I know you aren't exactly fond of Mata but you're over-exaggerating when you said Hazard delivered the goods to get us top four and Europa League. He did contribute to some important goals, notably the equalizer against Sparta Prague and two assists at Aston Villa but in no way he was as influential as you made him out to be that season.

I am fond of Mata, i just think his overall influence with us during his time here was greatly exaggerated. 

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2 hours ago, Tomo said:

 

I'd say it's more revisionist claiming he was brilliant right up until the moment he was sold when in reality was he was under par for the best part of a year before we let him go to Man U, and he has got even worse since then.

He was very good in 11/12 (although just how good was being exaggerated due to how bad Kaloudanelka and Torres were) and was brilliant for the first half of 12/13 but after that season hit the new year his form fell off a cliff and it was Hazard, not him, delivering the goods to get us Europa and top four. Judging by the comments on his thread in Redcafe then he hasn't got any better atall, in fact (ironically) most of them are talking about him in the same vein we did Oscar at the very end.

He was a decent player for us and his arrival (and creativity) came at a time it was so desperately needed but to get £37m out of him when we did was incredible business, the big mistake that window was the other AM that slipped through the net!!!

I'll say from March onwards not from the 2nd half i.e January. Hazard started playing at a different level and surpassed him at that point. 

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3 hours ago, Tomo said:

I am fond of Mata, i just think his overall influence with us during his time here was greatly exaggerated. 

Hardly exageratted. He was a very good player for us Tomo. You have a better memory than myself, so you are able to pluck stats from out of the blue but everytime I went to The Bridge which was a lot during Matas time here... I would often leave thinking Mata was excellent.

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9 minutes ago, DDA said:

Hardly exageratted. He was a very good player for us Tomo. You have a better memory than myself, so you are able to pluck stats from out of the blue but everytime I went to The Bridge which was a lot during Matas time here... I would often leave thinking Mata was excellent.

He was very good in his prime, but he seemed to nosedive around about early 2013 and hasn't gone back to his best to this day. Watching him for United these days i can't believe he's actually the same player.

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

He was very good in his prime, but he seemed to nosedive around about early 2013 and hasn't gone back to his best to this day. Watching him for United these days i can't believe he's actually the same player.

I know man. He was always slow but made up for it with his technical ability on the ball. Now he looks even more lack lusture, weak and even deprived of any serious ability on the ball. It's quite astonishing how much enviornment and lack self belief can negitively affect a player.

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