Juan Mata

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

To be honest we don`t want to see Ramires playing on the wing anymore.His technical limitation shines there trough even more.

He's not a great fit for the centre either. You really want Ramires being the guy who controls the attack and temp of the game? He's not ideal on the wing, but we don't really play with wingers and while Ramires as an attacking midfielder is problematic, it's never been nearly as bad as people pretend. He opens up space for our other attackers and is one of our best finishers from up close. Anyway, pretty much every manager has put him there at one point.

[Steve 10,227]

To be fair, if we could get the reported 37-42 million quad for him, it would be worth taking. We could potentially bring in two world class players for that sort of money. I understand it's to one of our biggest rivals, but that said it's also a risk for them. They play completely different football to us, He might fit in, he might not. If we could bring in Diego Costa and Luke Shaw for the money we get for Mata, I feel like it would be a very good bit of business!

It pains me so much to say that, as Juan is one of my favourite players. But I am looking at it for the future of our club. One player doesn't make the team.

[didierforever 7,349]

Exactly. We can't do anything to stop them from strengthening because it is out of our hands. But since they are inevitable going to strengthen, why don't we take the 40m without significantly weakening our team?

With 40m for Mata, they will be strengthening us with the signings we will like make with that money, much more than we will be strengthening them.

what signing? tell me how it strengthens our squad right now and with what signing exactly?

and since RM and PSG are ineviyably going to strengthen, lets sell them hazard and oscar too. with the 100mil and 40mil... we can probably strengthen ourselves even more.

[Jase 43,479]

He's not a great fit for the centre either. You really want Ramires being the guy who controls the attack and temp of the game? He's not ideal on the wing, but we don't really play with wingers and while Ramires as an attacking midfielder is problematic, it's never been nearly as bad as people pretend. He opens up space for our other attackers and is one of our best finishers from up close. Anyway, pretty much every manager has put him there at one point.

Saying Ramires opens up space for others and is one of the best finishers as reasons to play at RW seems somewhat nonsensical. We have seen him played countless of times in that position and I don't think he genuinely had any real success there. Managers only play him at RW to stop the opposition FB or attacks down that side and is only ever gonna be useful in counter-attacking situations. When he's played there against teams that sit deep, he offers literally next to nothing offensively.

To be fair, if we could get the reported 37-42 million quad for him, it would be worth taking. We could potentially bring in two world class players for that sort of money. I understand it's to one of our biggest rivals, but that said it's also a risk for them. They play completely different football to us, He might fit in, he might not. If we could bring in Diego Costa and Luke Shaw for the money we get for Mata, I feel like it would be a very good bit of business!

It pains me so much to say that, as Juan is one of my favourite players. But I am looking at it for the future of our club. One player doesn't make the team.

Thing is Steve, even if we were to sell him now, never mind to United, what are we gonna do with the squad depth till the end of the season? We'll only gonna have 4 AMs for 3 positions and that is suicidal with games coming thick and fast and if we want to win the major trophies.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Yes but United have ambition as well, they want to rebuild their squad and get back to where they are. Why should we help them to become a successful force again? Selling them Mata will essentially be a stepping stone in them doing so.

Because we would be getting 40m for our 5th choice AM?

We shouldn't be selling him within England at all. There are plenty of other European clubs who would be interested. Maybe they'd pay less... even if it's 10million less, what the heck is 10m for a club like us.

The potential backlash that could happen to us if Utd (or whoever we sell to in England) get stronger is much worse as we are directly competing with them.

This is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion.

I'm not against selling Juan. He doesn't fit into Jose's plans and ideas and he deserves to be a starter. But I don't care if he wants to stay in England. For the good of Chelsea, he should not be sold to a direct rival. It's as simple as that in my eyes.

But thing is, 40m is an astronomical figure and Juan leaving would not significantly weaken our squad. And we won't get that much after the world cup. Getting 40m now would help us carefully pick our targets in the summer and practically get whoever we want. We can spend the money on a top top player or 2-3 good players. Like I said, the 40m will strengthen us much more than Juan strengthens utd.

[Term-X 7,891]

Although you have warned of such scenario before, it's quite hilarious to see you take a 360 degrees turn on your view about Mata when you were gloriously praising him in past years.

I still praise him, he's still quality, we were blinded back then because our squad was a mere cup team, you have to put it into context. Context is everything..

[drog.ba 239]

what signing? tell me how it strengthens our squad right now and with what signing exactly?

and since RM and PSG are ineviyably going to strengthen, lets sell them hazard and oscar too. with the 100mil and 40mil... we can probably strengthen ourselves even more.

exactly, us getting £40m doesnt mean we go out and spend £40m extra on top of what we would already spend. The only thing that should be of any concern is us weakening our squad significantly (who doesn't think Mata can make the difference later in the season, especially off the bench) and strengthening Man United. We could well end up with fucking Moses or Marin back as 5th choice attacking midfielder and no one challenging Oscar and Willian when they inevitability drop in form.

Let Man United try and sign Draxler or Reus, I doubt they'd be able to get them, probably ending up with another Fellaini. On that note, why are we only demanding £37m from a club who spent £28m on Fellaini?

[Term-X 7,891]

No way, absolutely no way were Gilvorak & lionsden Chelsea fans circa 2004-07.

[lionsden 4,689]

Was just skimming through the mata thread from last season and the amount of turnaround and contradictions from then to now is staggering. I wouldn't expose and embarrass anyone because that's not who I am but some people can do with some consistency.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

what signing? tell me how it strengthens our squad right now and with what signing exactly?

and since RM and PSG are ineviyably going to strengthen, lets sell them hazard and oscar too. with the 100mil and 40mil... we can probably strengthen ourselves even more.

Juan leaving does not weaken our squad because he is our fifth choice AM unlike Oscar or Hazard. Of course we should not sell our star players, we are not a selling club. But selling a player who hasn't had a single minute on the pitch since new years day for 40m is an opportunity that is hard to turn down.

The 40m will strengthen us because it allows us to heavily into the market in the summer and spend at least that amount; something we will need to do if we are to challenge next season.

[drog.ba 239]

Because we would be getting 40m for our 5th choice AM?

But thing is, 40m is an astronomical figure and Juan leaving would not significantly weaken our squad. And we won't get that much after the world cup. Getting 40m now would help us carefully pick our targets in the summer and practically get whoever we want. We can spend the money on a top top player or 2-3 good players. Like I said, the 40m will strengthen us much more than Juan strengthens utd.

Mata's 3rd choice no.10 and 2nd choice right wing, he isn't Marin.

Is £40m really that much in football now? Fellaini cost £28m, Shaw would cost £25m+, Costa likely £35m - Mata is far superior to them all. We should be in a strong position, we don't need to sell, Man United are desperate for a marquee signing. What 2 or 3 good players will we get for £37-£40m? Every club will see we've just got £40m and hike up their prices; and when have we needed to sell to bring in good players?

[The Skipper 20,593]

Are you by any chance @iceboy's father?!

LOL!

[Jase 43,479]

Because we would be getting 40m for our 5th choice AM?

Overall, he's 5th choice (why not 4th when Schurrle hasn't even been getting games either or does 5th sounds better because it suits people's view better?) in the AM department but break it down to each position, he's basically the 2nd choice on the RW, as drog.ba pointed out.

I still praise him, he's still quality, we were blinded back then because our squad was a mere cup team, you have to put it into context. Context is everything..

'Blinded' and 'context'. Of course. 'Blinded' is like a get-out-of-jail card for some people depending on the 'context'. They praised and glorified him back then because it suits the 'context' and now almost seem to be putting him down as it suits the current 'context'. Go figure...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Mata's 3rd choice no.10 and 2nd choice right wing, he isn't Marin.

Is £40m really that much in football now? Fellaini cost £28m, Shaw would cost £25m+, Costa likely £35m - Mata is far superior to them all. We should be in a strong position, we don't need to sell, Man United are desperate for a marquee signing. What 2 or 3 good players will we get for £37-£40m? Every club will see we've just got £40m and hike up their prices; and when have we needed to sell to bring in good players?

So you don't want to take 40m for the "3rd choice no.10 and 2nd choice right wing"?! Seriously, just look at the sentence again and try to think about it without emotions.

40m would be the third highest transfer in the history of the EPL after Torres and Ozil. The media can throw all the imaginary numbers about the "flavor of the day" players but 40m is a lot of money that will surely get any clubs attention. With FFP starting to take effect the numbers are only going to go down. 40m will completely change our transfer policy in the summer.

[Term-X 7,891]

Even if you look beyond the superior objective arguments in favour of Mourinho's philosophy over Mata, actual Chelsea 'fans' wouldn't back a mere player (bar real club legends like JT & Lamps) over the greatest manager in the clubs history.

Philistines, they became Chelsea fans in 2007, with Avram Grant. Pity them.. because they missed out, skipped an era..

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Overall, he's 5th choice (why not 4th when Schurrle hasn't even been getting games either or does 5th sounds better because it suits people's view better?) in the AM department but break it down to each position, he's basically the 2nd choice on the RW, as drog.ba pointed out.

Yes, that changes everything...not! No one has ever sold his second choice RW and third choice #10 for anywhere near 40m. You cannot deny that business wise it is an incredible deal for us.

[zolayes 14,489]

Even if you look beyond the superior objective arguments in favour of Mourinho's philosophy over Mata, actual Chelsea 'fans' wouldn't back a mere player (bar real club legends like JT & Lamps) over the greatest manager in the clubs history.

Philistines, they became Chelsea fans in 2007, with Avram Grant. Pity them.. because they missed out, skipped an era..

and you became a fan in ???? 2005 ,,,,,Glory Hunter ???

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Saying Ramires opens up space for others and is one of the best finishers as reasons to play at RW seems somewhat nonsensical. We have seen him played countless of times in that position and I don't think he genuinely had any real success there. Managers only play him at RW to stop the opposition FB or attacks down that side and is only ever gonna be useful in counter-attacking situations. When he's played there against teams that sit deep, he offers literally next to nothing offensively.

We don't have a position RW. In a 4-2-3-1 there is an attacking midfielder on the right (and in our system, barely).And we really only play counter-attack now anyway so he can fit in there. I'm not saying he's ideal, but he's not nearly as bad as people make him out to be.