Juan Mata

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

One thing I would like to see Mourinho try is Mata at number 10 with Willian and Hazard out wide, and with a solid pivot like Matic and Mikel behind them. I think that would be interesting to see but doubt it will ever happen.

Mata isn't as great as anyone else in his defensive responsibilities but he isn't that much of a liability.

The problem is Mou's defensive philosophy is to press high through the centre and force the ball to the flanks and win the ball on the wings. Pressing high through the middle is crucial, which is why whenever he does start Mata it's on the wings to hide him as much as he can.

[Jase 43,479]

The problem is Mou's defensive philosophy is to press high through the centre and force the ball to the flanks and win the ball on the wings. Pressing high through the middle is crucial, which is why whenever he does start Mata it's on the wings to hide him as much as he can.

But when we do that, another problem appears. He's not as effective out wide as he is in the No.10 role and when that happens, our threat from his side probably drops 25-50%.

[The Chels 2,502]

I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves "pro-Mata" or "pro-Oscar".

However, if we are desperate to categorise, stick me in the "pro-Chelsea" group, because it is pretty clear to me that the inclusion of Oscar and Willian, based on their form, performances and their defensive capacity, is an absolutely correct one by José for the betterment of the team.

I don't think it's that easy to state Jose's decision on this has been 'absolutely correct'. You can only say that if you know how the alternative situation would have panned out with Mata being involved in all the games he hasn't been, and obviously that is impossible.

José is being fair - he has told Mata what he has to do to win his place back; which is to contribute more defensively.

I remember reading from both Mata and De Bruyne that Mourinho had not told them what they were doing wrong personally, with Mata saying something along the lines of 'he doesn't need to...' Surely trying to help them directly instead of almost doing so through the media would be a better option and not make the players feel targeted and without hope of getting into the team? Obviously the manager doesn't need to justify to every player why he is or isn't playing them, but when Mata is clearly our most creative and technical AM (not to mention the only one who can properly take FKs and corners!) and has been for the last 2 years it seems strange that Mourinho wouldn't advise him personally, particularly because he thinks he will be an 'important' player for us; I believe he said something similar about De Bruyne around the Christmas period, and we all know how that one turned out...

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

But when we do that, another problem appears. He's not as effective out wide as he is in the No.10 role and when that happens, our threat from his side probably drops 25-50%.

He may not be as effective but it's Chelsea FC and not Mata FC. If he wants to play either learn to press like Oscar, which will never happen because Mata is limited physically, or do your best to influence the match from the wings. Mou isn't going to change his defensive philosophy to suit Mata, especially since it seems to working with the entire team except Mata. Plus he's played on the wings for us a lot when he first came here and has been very good.

Of course he won't get goals and assists like last year but as long as he's able to help the team win, that's what he and we all want. I don't care if he gets stats or not, as long as he plays well and we win and this goes for any player.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The funny thing is that Jose has stated that he likes left footed players on the right wing when talking about Mata, so his real competition probably isn't Oscar but instead Willian.

[laura90 556]

There is not much point in continuing with this Mata- Oscar debate. Even if Oscar needs rest and Mata starts few games it will be on the wing with Willian in the middle and will mean nothing and Mata won't be at his best.

Like someone said above, Mata just doesn't fit as number 10 in Mourinho system.

That's acceptable I suppose, because winning is the aim, what I personally find rather strange is that Chelsea fans accept it as a fact that Oscar is better than Mata just because he fits better in current system.

We aren't winning just because Oscar today and we weren't concedeng just because of Mata in past two seasons. Oscar is supposed to be better because he can't do it all, to defend and to create (which is main number 10 task afterall) but these days he mainly plays well off the ball.

Regarding the debate:

Those who think Mata is better attacking midfielder can't prove their point because Mata doesn't fit .

Those who think Oscar is better attacking midfielder are entitled to their opinion because Oscar makes the team defend better but will only prove their point if we win something with that defending.

Because there really isn't much difference between finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th, just ask Wenger; or 6th with CL trophy (wait it's the best option).

[Jase 43,479]

He may not be as effective but it's Chelsea FC and not Mata FC. If he wants to play either learn to press like Oscar, which will never happen because Mata is limited physically, or do your best to influence the match from the wings. Mou isn't going to change his defensive philosophy to suit Mata, especially since it seems to working with the entire team except Mata. Plus he's played on the wings for us a lot when he first came here and has been very good.

Of course he won't get goals and assists like last year but as long as he's able to help the team win, that's what he and we all want. I don't care if he gets stats or not, as long as he plays well and we win and this goes for any player.

Bloody hell. Why on earth do I immediately get thrown a reply like that implying I'm being 'Pro-Mata' or 'Mata FC'?!

My point was simply that we're gonna get a conundrum whichever position we play Mata in right now. Due to this Mourinho's system, we can't play him in the No.10 role because defensively he's not sound and/or fits into what Jose wants even if offensively he can contribute a lot more than others that have played there. Then if we play Mata out wide, his defensive deficiencies - which is not as bad as many are making it to be - may be hidden and made less obvious but we won't get out as much as we could offensively there as compared to in the No.10 role.

People can use the past to say Mata can play out wide and do a good a job there but like it or not, he's just not suited out there. He can still be of use out wide but we'll only get say 50% of the player there compared to 100% in the middle. We have all seen how devastating and/or influential he can be there but don't think any Chelsea fans can deny this. This BS crap about Mata doesn't defend or track back etc at this point is getting really old. He does that now and has improved a lot from previous seasons but he's simply not a player with the same tenacity, aggressiveness, mobility, pacey like the others especially with this pressing approach and Mourinho placing high importance in transitions.

All in all, this whole problem with this is that Mata just simply doesn't suit Mourinho's profile of players of being all-round action type and dynamic to play as one of the attacking trios behind the striker. There is always going to be one problem or another regardless of where we play him in this system.

[lionsden 4,689]

I don't think anyone should be labelling themselves "pro-Mata" or "pro-Oscar".

However, if we are desperate to categorise, stick me in the "pro-Chelsea" group, because it is pretty clear to me that the inclusion of Oscar and Willian, based on their form, performances and their defensive capacity, is an absolutely correct one by José for the betterment of the team.

Pro mata in this case is used to mean those that see mata as a superior player and a better option as a no 10 behind the striker to Oscar. I thought that was straightforward enough because make no mistake about it, if it was caliber of players like Iniesta,D.Silva or Ozil that's benching mata, you wouldn't even hear or see any objections from me.

The day no 10's are revered more for their workrate than their playmaking abilities and overall technical qualities will be the death of football from a purist standpoint. When you have a rolls royce, don't drive it like, or expect it to perform the task of a land cruiser.

[Tomo 21,681]

Pro mata in this case is used to mean those that see mata as a superior player and a better option as a no 10 behind the striker to Oscar. I thought that was straightforward enough because make no mistake about it, if it was caliber of players like Iniesta,D.Silva or Ozil that's benching mata, you wouldn't even hear or see any objections from me.

The day no 10's are revered more for their workrate than their playmaking abilities and overall technical qualities will be the death of football from a purist standpoint. When you have a rolls royce, don't drive it like, or expect it to perform the task of a land cruiser.

You were in the Ivanovic thread earlier moaning because he is shit at crossing.

If the defenders are partly judged on what they offer going forward then why can't that be the case vice versa?

[lionsden 4,689]

You were in the Ivanovic thread earlier moaning because he is shit at crossing.

If the defenders are partly judged on what they offer going forward then why can't that be the case vice versa?

What does this even mean because it makes absolutely no sense. so you are comparing the primary tasks of fullbacks which involves defending and joining the attack to provide width when necessary to that of a no 10? whose primary duties is solely measured on attacking contributions? bombing forward to join the attack has long been part and parcel of the fullback game that it's been recognized as a primary task. Some would even argue that fullbacks are more celebrated for their attacking contributions in modern era than their defensive contributions

You might have a point the day defensive duties becomes a major requirement, expectation and part and parcel of a no 10 primary task and job description world wide but for now it isn't and players like mata will continue to be revered for their playmaking abilities.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Bloody hell. Why on earth do I immediately get thrown a reply like that implying I'm being 'Pro-Mata' or 'Mata FC'?!

My point was simply that we're gonna get a conundrum whichever position we play Mata in right now. Due to this Mourinho's system, we can't play him in the No.10 role because defensively he's not sound and/or fits into what Jose wants even if offensively he can contribute a lot more than others that have played there. Then if we play Mata out wide, his defensive deficiencies - which is not as bad as many are making it to be - may be hidden and made less obvious but we won't get out as much as we could offensively there as compared to in the No.10 role.

People can use the past to say Mata can play out wide and do a good a job there but like it or not, he's just not suited out there. He can still be of use out wide but we'll only get say 50% of the player there compared to 100% in the middle. We have all seen how devastating and/or influential he can be there but don't think any Chelsea fans can deny this. This BS crap about Mata doesn't defend or track back etc at this point is getting really old. He does that now and has improved a lot from previous seasons but he's simply not a player with the same tenacity, aggressiveness, mobility, pacey like the others especially with this pressing approach and Mourinho placing high importance in transitions.

All in all, this whole problem with this is that Mata just simply doesn't suit Mourinho's profile of players of being all-round action type and dynamic to play as one of the attacking trios behind the striker. There is always going to be one problem or another regardless of where we play him in this system.

No I don't mean to say you are pro-Mata and I wholeheartedly agree with your entire post, it's spot on imo. My point was simply that in general the whole argument about Mata kind of lumps one side of the argument automatically in that Mata FC bucket right now because Mata at his beast doesn't mean Chelsea at their best anymore. We are winning now and for the first time in 2-3 years actually building a team identity.

Unfortunately, the simple fact is that Mata FC and Chelsea FC are mutually exclusive, they weren't in previous years but they are now and it won't change.

[The only place to be 11,313]

You might have a point the day defensive duties becomes a major requirement, expectation and part and parcel of a no 10 primary task and job description world wide but for now it isn't and players like mata will continue to be revered for their playmaking abilities.

Iniesta, Xavi and Messi have all been praised for their contribution to Barca's pressing game. I don't see why Oscar is an exception to this.

Pro mata in this case is used to mean those that see mata as a superior player and a better option as a no 10 behind the striker to Oscar. I thought that was straightforward enough because make no mistake about it, if it was caliber of players like Iniesta,D.Silva or Ozil that's benching mata, you wouldn't even hear or see any objections from me.

Isn't it the case that Mourinho probably sees Mata more as a right-winger so he's actually competing with Willian for a starting spot?

[Tomo 21,681]

What does this even mean because it makes absolutely no sense. so you are comparing the primary tasks of fullbacks which involves defending and joining the attack to provide width when necessary to that of a no 10? whose primary duties is solely measured on attacking contributions? bombing forward to join the attack has long been part and parcel of the fullback game that it's been recognized as a primary task. Some would even argue that fullbacks are more celebrated for their attacking contributions in modern era than their defensive contributions

You might have a point the day defensive duties becomes a major requirement, expectation and part and parcel of a no 10 primary task and job description world wide but for now it isn't and players like mata will continue to be revered for their playmaking abilities.

The point is at one time in football history the game evolved and the fullbacks had to start offering more going forward and now the game demands players to be good off the ball aswell as on it.

Look at Barca under Pep, the pressing and harrasing they did when they didn't have the ball was a key reason as to why they are called by some the best team off all time, most times they lost the ball they had it back within seconds. Robben and Ribery's defensive work helped Bayern conquer all before them last season.

In this day in age balance is important, players must be good at both aspects off the game. The free role is slowly dying out just like the sweeper did, if you want to be top dog in football your players have to do their bit at both ends off the pitch.

[Fernando 6,375]

Yeah I agree that teamwork is key. It is no surprise that mata hardly gets into Spain because he can't offer the balance like the other players do.

[pHaRaOn 2,131]

I don't believe it, but...

[Korea 734]

With Mata going to United, that would stun the growth of Adan....

I highly doubt they would do that since Moyes rates him highly.

Also, it would allow Shinji to return to BVB.

[bababoom 4,478]

ChelsTransferGossip ‏@ChelsTransfer21s
Manchester United are closing in on a £37m move for Juan Mata (Telegraph)

Very tempting... but surely we cant sell, only if we get Rooney.

[ephreak 42]

Really Chelsea? To United? How bizarre if true. He will obviously make them much better, why would we even consider to give those pri*ks any benefit of having any of our players. Stupid move.

They refuse to give us Rooney, and I think that we should do the same. I don´t care if their bid is the highest.